Condi Bunker Chrono

[DanSH.6143]

Please kill this spec, thank you!

[Burnfall.9573]

13 hours ago, DanSH.6143 said:

Please kill this spec, thank you!

 

[Gryxis.6950]

but it's already dead

[ollbirtan.2915]

Oh look! Now that cata is gutted, the mob is back for more blood! 

[AlPower.2476]

On 3/26/2023 at 7:44 AM, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

This dude is asking for nerfs on every class that have killed him, even if a relatively weak one like chrono condi is his killer

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Chrono bunker isn't weak, by any stretch of the imagination. It's borderline unkillable, and brings to the table some acceptable group utility in the form of alacrity, AoE CC (both hard and soft), some res potential if you play inspiration, with chaos storm you can also deny some resses thanks to daze and poison.

It suffers from the same old problem every staff mesmer has always suffered: it's obscenely boring to play and to face. Because staff is badly designed, and every iteration of staff mesmer has always been the same old chore to deal with. Rather than killing staff chrono (which is far from fun or healthy) we should really reconsider staff as a whole, because it periodically pops up as one of the most unhealthy weapons in pvp.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

2 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Chrono bunker isn't weak, by any stretch of the imagination. It's borderline unkillable, and brings to the table some acceptable group utility in the form of alacrity, AoE CC (both hard and soft), some res potential if you play inspiration, with chaos storm you can also deny some resses thanks to daze and poison.

It suffers from the same old problem every staff mesmer has always suffered: it's obscenely boring to play and to face. Because staff is badly designed, and every iteration of staff mesmer has always been the same old chore to deal with. Rather than killing staff chrono (which is far from fun or healthy) we should really reconsider staff as a whole, because it periodically pops up as one of the most unhealthy weapons in pvp.

Genuinely curious: what would you do differently for staff to make it healthier?

[Burnfall.9573]

8 hours ago, AlPower.2476 said:

This dude is asking for nerfs on every class that have killed him, even if a relatively weak one like chrono condi is his killer

 

I also main Guardian Profession. Guardian Profession is a not a Condition Role Profession (which is the role of Necromancer Profession). So therefore; condition should be removed from them.

 

side note-

 

It Is Outrageously Intolerable How The Direction Of Guild Wars 2 Profession Mechanic, Skills Design Is To Strip Away Profession Roles Away From Professions Who Main Them.

 

It Is An Outrageously Insult To Condition Professions Especially To Necromancer Profession Being The Master Of Conditions And Allowing Other Profession Conditions To Surpass Them.

 

The only Professions who should have only have access to conditions are; Thief Profession, Engineer Profession, Elementalist Profession, Ranger Profession, Revenant Profession, Mesmer Profession and lastly, The Master Of Conditions-Necromancer Profession!!

 

Warrior Profession and Guardian Profession Are Excluded From Conditions!!

Edited March 29, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Terrorhuz.4695]

On 3/29/2023 at 2:23 PM, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Genuinely curious: what would you do differently for staff to make it healthier?

Several things which will -quite admittedly- milk a whole lot of hatred from PvE players.

THE CURRENT SITUATION
The weapon has no burst nor sustained damage. That is a fact. HOWEVER you can multiply your AA by 4, because clones will still deal damaging conditions. It takes a lot of time for the clones to ramp up, then it takes a lot of time for their conditions to ramp up, and you are a punching ball as this goes on; if you pull that off, you get considerable dps. You will eat a lot of damage (no active defenses on staff) before you start doing anything, and chaos aura will tap right into that: most other auras are designed to stop attacks right now (shocking aura will stun the attacker, mag aura will stop projectiles, frost aura will slow the attacker so much you'll be able to immediately disengage). Staff4, on the other hand, requires you to take a lot of hits before you get value. Sum all of this up, staff is a weapon that brings value only if you can take enough punches for clones\chaos aura to actually do something. And the ones doing that are bunker mesmers. Nobody likes bunker mesmer, I propose we tear this gameplay down.
ASSUMPTION
Staff is NOT a conditionaweapon. It shouldn't be a condition weapon. Staff is a control weapon. Scepter is a condition weapon, torch is a condition weapon, staff should be about control: movement, some poison, disrupting your opponent. For this reason
- Staff AA will be bumped a lot, to be on par with the AA on other weapons. Autotracking gets fixed (projectiles currently don't track anymore, IDK if it's intended or a bug since changes to projectile behavior aren't usually listed), projectile speed increases, attack speed increases, power damage increases. It should also be usable against allies too, to directly give them boons. I do believe the old iteration, with random conditions, was arguably superior, and probably a random 1s poison would make sense, to give staff some stopping power on resses.

- Clone AA won't deal damaging conditions anymore. They will instead deal control conditions: 0.5s cripple OR 2s vuln OR 0.25s weakness, randomly (we could digress about numbers\conditions inflicted, maybe even 0.25s weakness is too much; let's talk about this).
- Staff 3 will be reworked. Rn it's a skill with 18s cd, 0.75s cast, 1.5s channel time. Glass cannon vs glass cannon, it deals 1.2k damage; the most useless skill in the game, by far. My proposal: 0.25s cast time, summons 2 phantasms; the phantasms themselves can be targeted either against a foe or towards a friend. If you target a foe, the beam will pulse 0.5s cripple per hit (3s cripple if all hits land; not much, but the pulsing cripple is nice for chasing); if you target an ally, you grant them barrier and SOMETHING; maybe superspeed? Maybe swiftness? Maybe protection? To spice things up, the phantasm could grant some boon\condition during their channel as we see fit (AoE blind? AoE resistance? Maybe even 2s stab to secure someone else's stomps? Plenty of opportunities), but the core thing here is "giving mesmer access to barrier, without giving barrier to the mesmer" which goes against the design for the class: you can't target yourself, after all.
- Staff 4 and chaos aura will be reworked: devs realized what I said about chaos aura being rewarding for bunkers only, so they tried to add some "stop now" factor on staff4. Nice concept, but this "stop now" factor comes from the skill, not the aura; getting chaos aura through anything other than staff 4 will still reward bunker gameplay. My proposal: confusion on cast should go, and blind on cast could probably go too (not 100% sure on this one). On-hit effect should change slightly: instead of 1 stack of confusion for 6 seconds you get EITHER 3 stacks of confusion for 2 seconds OR 1.5s slow. This way, with weakness - cripple - slow\confusion burst, whatever happens will actually have a meaningful way to stop the attack, like the good auras do, even without being a damage sponge. Because nobody ever stopped attacking for 1 stack of confusion.

Also chaos aura STORM I GUESS 😠 on healing skill is nuked from orbit. Literally erased. The duration itself could go down to some 2s (so it provides 2 ticks only, IDK) but that trait is too rewarding for bunkers. I hate it and you should hate it too.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

6 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Chrono bunker isn't weak, by any stretch of the imagination. It's borderline unkillable, and brings to the table some acceptable group utility in the form of alacrity, AoE CC (both hard and soft), some res potential if you play inspiration, with chaos storm you can also deny some resses thanks to daze and poison.

It suffers from the same old problem every staff mesmer has always suffered: it's obscenely boring to play and to face. Because staff is badly designed, and every iteration of staff mesmer has always been the same old chore to deal with. Rather than killing staff chrono (which is far from fun or healthy) we should really reconsider staff as a whole, because it periodically pops up as one of the most unhealthy weapons in pvp.

It's not borderline unkillable at all, however I agree that staff has some problems, mainly thus

1. They broke staff #1 tracking in May 11, 2021

2. The instant confusion on #4 is dumb

3. Phantasmal Warlock (#3) is boring and useless. Should be more interactive

Edited March 29, 2023 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

1 hour ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Also chaos aura on healing skill

Storm?

[Terrorhuz.4695]

2 minutes ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Storm?

😠

[JTGuevara.9018]

So...going forwardly backwards to 2015...nice!

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

10 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Several things which will -quite admittedly- milk a whole lot of hatred from PvE players.

THE CURRENT SITUATION
The weapon has no burst nor sustained damage. That is a fact. HOWEVER you can multiply your AA by 4, because clones will still deal damaging conditions. It takes a lot of time for the clones to ramp up, then it takes a lot of time for their conditions to ramp up, and you are a punching ball as this goes on; if you pull that off, you get considerable dps. You will eat a lot of damage (no active defenses on staff) before you start doing anything, and chaos aura will tap right into that: most other auras are designed to stop attacks right now (shocking aura will stun the attacker, mag aura will stop projectiles, frost aura will slow the attacker so much you'll be able to immediately disengage). Staff4, on the other hand, requires you to take a lot of hits before you get value. Sum all of this up, staff is a weapon that brings value only if you can take enough punches for clones\chaos aura to actually do something. And the ones doing that are bunker mesmers. Nobody likes bunker mesmer, I propose we tear this gameplay down.
ASSUMPTION
Staff is NOT a condition a weapon. It shouldn't be a condition weapon. Staff is a control weapon. Scepter is a condition weapon, torch is a condition weapon, staff should be about control: movement, some poison, disrupting your opponent. For this reason
- Staff AA will be bumped a lot, to be on par with the AA on other weapons. Autotracking gets fixed (projectiles currently don't track anymore, IDK if it's intended or a bug since changes to projectile behavior aren't usually listed), projectile speed increases, attack speed increases, power damage increases. It should also be usable against allies too, to directly give them boons. I do believe the old iteration, with random conditions, was arguably superior, and probably a random 1s poison would make sense, to give staff some stopping power on resses.

- Clone AA won't deal damaging conditions anymore. They will instead deal control conditions: 0.5s cripple OR 2s vuln OR 0.25s weakness, randomly (we could digress about numbers\conditions inflicted, maybe even 0.25s weakness is too much; let's talk about this).
- Staff 3 will be reworked. Rn it's a skill with 18s cd, 0.75s cast, 1.5s channel time. Glass cannon vs glass cannon, it deals 1.2k damage; the most useless skill in the game, by far. My proposal: 0.25s cast time, summons 2 phantasms; the phantasms themselves can be targeted either against a foe or towards a friend. If you target a foe, the beam will pulse 0.5s cripple per hit (3s cripple if all hits land; not much, but the pulsing cripple is nice for chasing); if you target an ally, you grant them barrier and SOMETHING; maybe superspeed? Maybe swiftness? Maybe protection? To spice things up, the phantasm could grant some boon\condition during their channel as we see fit (AoE blind? AoE resistance? Maybe even 2s stab to secure someone else's stomps? Plenty of opportunities), but the core thing here is "giving mesmer access to barrier, without giving barrier to the mesmer" which goes against the design for the class: you can't target yourself, after all.
- Staff 4 and chaos aura will be reworked: devs realized what I said about chaos aura being rewarding for bunkers only, so they tried to add some "stop now" factor on staff4. Nice concept, but this "stop now" factor comes from the skill, not the aura; getting chaos aura through anything other than staff 4 will still reward bunker gameplay. My proposal: confusion on cast should go, and blind on cast could probably go too (not 100% sure on this one). On-hit effect should change slightly: instead of 1 stack of confusion for 6 seconds you get EITHER 3 stacks of confusion for 2 seconds OR 1.5s slow. This way, with weakness - cripple - slow\confusion burst, whatever happens will actually have a meaningful way to stop the attack, like the good auras do, even without being a damage sponge. Because nobody ever stopped attacking for 1 stack of confusion.

Also chaos aura STORM I GUESS 😠 on healing skill is nuked from orbit. Literally erased. The duration itself could go down to some 2s (so it provides 2 ticks only, IDK) but that trait is too rewarding for bunkers. I hate it and you should hate it too.

 Thanks for the in depth analysis and reply!  Lots of really well reasoned balance suggestions there. Interesting ideas to convert it from a condi weapon into more of a support/utility weapon.

[jdawgie.1835]

@DanSH.6143 Im bumping all your troll threads to the top of the Forums to highlight that your feedback is ridiculous and unhelpful. Enough already. 

[Zypp.7921]

Though condi chronobunker is strong it struggles to finish the job. If you can't beat one you can usually walk away safely. Another weakness is ranged pressure. Don't try to stand on their point and trade damage, you will get messed up by the wells and shatters while they block/distort damage. If you can go off the point and keep up pressure from range they will struggle a lot. With that in mind I don't think they are overpowered. It certainly doesn't need to be 'killed'.

[apharma.3741]

I agree, if mesmer is played in a mAT it means CMC and the balance team have done something incredibly wrong and it's clearly degen because of clones, blink, stealth, moa, infinite block, infinte distortion, full reset, boon strip, timewarp and all the other trait lines in 1 build.

[Leonidrex.5649]

On 3/29/2023 at 2:23 PM, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Genuinely curious: what would you do differently for staff to make it healthier?

make it a support weapon, so maybe just maybe mesmer can be a proper support

[Zex Anthon.8673]

gut virtuoso while your at it

[Myror.7521]

@Terrorhuz.4695 idk why but to me Chaos Strom is Something else. Its a Instant AoE that instantly stuns enemys and gains aegis. Idk why but to me CC plus aegis is a Bit mutch and since Instant Cast CCs are Always pretty toxic..... would you be okay with remove those CC while gain mes aegis every 4 Seconds ( means on the start and the end of that Skill/Rest of boons stay as they are)? This would Made this Skill more passive and less toxic/frustrating to Fight against.

 

EDIT: Oh kitten i noticed its a daze and Not a stun hmm still idk it still feels a Bit of toxic cause its 2 passives in 1 Skill. (With passive i mean daze let ya Not Attack enemy for 1 Second and aegis is If course a Block)

Edited April 1, 2023 by Pati.2438

[Terrorhuz.4695]

3 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 idk why but to me Chaos Strom is Something else. Its a Instant AoE that instantly stuns enemys and gains aegis. Idk why but to me CC plus aegis is a Bit mutch and since Instant Cast CCs are Always pretty toxic..... would you be okay with remove those CC while gain mes aegis every 4 Seconds ( means on the start and the end of that Skill/Rest of boons stay as they are)? This would Made this Skill more passive and less toxic/frustrating to Fight against.

Short cast time, but not instant. And also it's not a stun, it's a daze (and a very short one too). Don't touch chaos storm, it's a great utility skill for stopping resses.

[Myror.7521]

@Terrorhuz.4695 hmm yea maybe the only Thing that Made it a Bit toxic is the fact that there is a shorter Variant of it per traitline what Made it pretty spamable but idk. But you allready mentioned it soooo your right i gues 😄

Edited April 1, 2023 by Pati.2438

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

1 hour ago, Pati.2438 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 idk why but to me Chaos Strom is Something else. Its a Instant AoE that instantly stuns enemys and gains aegis. Idk why but to me CC plus aegis is a Bit mutch and since Instant Cast CCs are Always pretty toxic..... would you be okay with remove those CC while gain mes aegis every 4 Seconds ( means on the start and the end of that Skill/Rest of boons stay as they are)? This would Made this Skill more passive and less toxic/frustrating to Fight against.

 

EDIT: Oh kitten i noticed its a daze and Not a stun hmm still idk it still feels a Bit of toxic cause its 2 passives in 1 Skill. (With passive i mean daze let ya Not Attack enemy for 1 Second and aegis is If course a Block)

lol

Edited April 1, 2023 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[viquing.8254]

On 3/29/2023 at 11:35 AM, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Chrono bunker isn't weak, by any stretch of the imagination. It's borderline unkillable, and brings to the table some acceptable group utility in the form of alacrity, AoE CC (both hard and soft), some res potential if you play inspiration, with chaos storm you can also deny some resses thanks to daze and poison.

It suffers from the same old problem every staff mesmer has always suffered: it's obscenely boring to play and to face. Because staff is badly designed, and every iteration of staff mesmer has always been the same old chore to deal with. Rather than killing staff chrono (which is far from fun or healthy) we should really reconsider staff as a whole, because it periodically pops up as one of the most unhealthy weapons in pvp.

To be fair, it's boderline unkillable only if you stand melee on his AOE while rollfacing when the mesmer is in Chaos armor. Which indeed work well in the game mode.

As long as your opponent bring few unblocable, hit from range and/or if you face dedicated condi builds, with the "meta" version, you can't facetank on point.

 

On 3/29/2023 at 4:41 PM, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Staff is NOT a condition a weapon. It shouldn't be a condition weapon. Staff is a control weapon. Scepter is a condition weapon, torch is a condition weapon, staff should be about control: movement, some poison, disrupting your opponent.

Let weapons be hybrid. Even scepter make sense in few direct damage builds.

Currently, mesmer didn't have weapons options for condi builds. if you remove condi from staff, scepter will be even more mandatory as it is now.

Only doing damage by shatter on condi builds is too much limitated IMO. They tried putting pistol as an alternative to torch but considering the current state, it don't conclude.

I mean mesmer dedesparatly need long telegraphied condi output on weapon (not applied by illusions.). Only scepter 3 can fill this role currently considering axe 3 hit only 1 over 3 on moving targets.

Chaos storm on heal is used on build who didn't have staff to aoe CC/combo...( like on axe mirage.).

Edited April 3, 2023 by viquing.8254