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Now that there are no competitive power rev builds in pvp please fix devastation


ArthurDent.9538

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Can we address the abomination that is 80% of the Devastation traitline. I'm not even going to elaborate as it is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer that the only 3 decent traits are swift termination (a copy paste of an ele/thief/necro trait that isn't competitive on any of them but still one of the best devastation traits), brutality, and destructive impulses. From there the rest are basically filler where you just try to figure out which one is the least useless, though I suppose aggressive agility is actually good if you are against one of like 3 niche off-meta builds that have high immob uptime.

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List of changes which I think can help Devastation:

 

- Master Tier's Thrill of Combat swapped with Minor Adept's Expose Defenses, and tweak Expose Defenses to refresh on Legend Swap. 

- Rework Assassin's Presence. Disgusting what they did to it. Bloody hell. 

 

- Battle Scarred change from giving 5 stacks of BS to strike targets around you when you are Healed. Synergizes well with Battle Scars when you heal from it. Cannot crit, scales to power, inflicts Vulnerability. 

 

- Aggressive Agility also grants Swiftness when you use a movement skill.

 

- Brutality changed to applying Vulnerability every time your Battle Scars hit. Hitting enemies with > Threshold of Vulnerability grants Quickness.

 

- To keep in line with the other two GMs, Swift Termination gets an additional benefit of doubling Battle Scars damage against opponents < 50% HP because Siphon damage doesn't actually gain a damage bonus from Strike damage multipliers. 

 

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Modify- Battle scarred: Get 5 battlescars on any energy skills used. ICD 5 seconds.

~Makes it useful if the other options aren't attractive enough because not all Revenant weapons apply Vulnerability for Grandmaster.

Rework- Notoriety: Increase Quickness duration by 50%, gain Might (6s PvP) every 1 second while you have Quickness. Might grants more power but is less effective on Condition Damage.

~Improve on the old underwhelming amount that you can even get more using it, gives incentive to stack Quickness without being too useful outside a power build.

Rework- Assassin's Presence: Apply 2 seconds of Quickness in a AoE when you hard CC anyone. (600 Radius)

~They don't want to have stats buff in an AoE, Fury is already in abundance with Revenant, being able to share Quickness at the moment of a CC such as Jade Wind compliments the fact that it can hit multiple targets as a Team act. This also takes away Phase Traversal from it's uncontested only source of Quickness in utility and gives it towards every legend and weapons in a useful manner.

Modify- Aggressive Agility: Movement skills removes Immobilize, apply 2 seconds of Quickness when triggered.

~This is useful mainly towards Unrelenting Assault but it can shortly benefit countering with combos on other skills such as Unyielding Anguish.

Modify- Brutality: Take away the ICD on Stability removal.

~Unless it's less than 2 stacks you never really get to make use of remove stability to any degree that can match a normal boon strip and to remove as much as 10 Stability which is common place, you'd have to CC 5 times with Quickness, the ICD is unnecessary and takes away potential of focusing while a mere sigil commonly used can outmatch it in a single hit.

Edited by Shao.7236
Explaining.
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   To be honest there were 2 power Revs in the Saturday's MAT (a Renegade and a Vindicator, albeit not in the top dog teams and didn't do anything special).

   Now, the really interesting thing is that in the last patch ANet buffed condi Rev (for second time in a row) and a cRev was seen in a MAT, but didn't saw one last Saturday (not sure about the Monday).

  My personal take: I don't care. I'm 50 matches in the current ranked season (not very interested, anyway) and I'm playing two builds: a bunker power Herald which is totally off meta and won't go far (but I find fun) adn a power Willbender. I don't think Revenant will have any action in PvP soon, because is not that fun. The classic power Herald build which was meta since HoT has been nerfed not onlky in numbers but also in mechanics, and just feels clunky (and honestly I got bored of it). WB has more mobility and felxibility, and albeit some akward ticks, is still kore fun to play and a new and fresh take over the same gamestyle. And I won't play Vindi in PvP, no matter if is meta or as bad as a Firebranbd: I refuse to play spec with heals of 714 points each 30 seconds.

   But ultimately doesn't matter; PvP is essentially dead, and most of players won't even notice (is not like PvE is that "healthy", anyway).

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Devastation is for sure the most uninspired Rev traitline.
And 58 damage/healing per battle scar is pathetic. It's no wonder that Swift Termination is by far the best choice for both PvP and PvE.

I'd gladly take any or all of the changes suggested here so far.

Edited by XxsdgxX.8109
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2 hours ago, GeneralBM.5781 said:

 

Only real one has been mace 3 update, energy cost reductions I'm sure are nice QoL, but I don't really notice it. Overall it's been business as usual, just slightly more torment uptime.

Those allows for a bit more fun with the boon spam all in all. Last 2 months I began to use herald condi again then recently people whether it's because I said it often or not that power is overly favored and people should start playing condi and boon rip has there been more herald condis showing up.

I know for a fact that cata's avoided me like the plague because herald condi is a literal counter to their lack of cleansing overtime or boon spam.

My friend mentioned their presence in one MAT.

Core is still garbage with all the jalis/resistance nerfs though.

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3 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

I don't see any changes relevant to rev past 2 notes.

   From the November 29th pach:

"The last set of changes didn't have quite enough impact on condition-based revenant builds in PvP, and we're following up with a few more adjustments to improve their damage output and free up a bit more energy while in Legendary Demon Stance.

We've focused on improving damage builds for both herald and vindicator in PvE, improving the potency of sword off hand, Legendary Assassin Stance and Legendary Dragon Stance, and the Luxon side of Legendary Alliance Stance."

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/124807-game-update-notes-november-29-2022/

   They slighly buffed Mallyx in that one. A quarter later they slighly buffed some Renegade traits and Sevenshots in PvP and WvW in the Feb 14 patch:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/127677-game-update-notes-february-14-2023/

   In the same one also they kept hammering Vindi out of the meta (this time successfully). The other changes were lergely irrelevant for both Herald and Renegade, but at least now the three specs + core Rev are in the same can (figure out which one 🙂 ). Don't blame CMC, He has been very busy making all specs of Ele meta in PvP, we can't get everything!

   But yes, Devastation is bad. As I said if I want damage in PvPI run a Willbender; when I chose a Rev in PvP I just go the tankiest I could trying to bunker at mid/home:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAYx7lpQHsLqhhROML6hJSfsCKgl+UVrD-z5gXIZmClWA9GBaMAA

   I find out the other offensive Rev specs just unable to compete vs the best EoD specs in damage + mobility.

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6 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Those allows for a bit more fun with the boon spam all in all. Last 2 months I began to use herald condi again then recently people whether it's because I said it often or not that power is overly favored and people should start playing condi and boon rip has there been more herald condis showing up.

I know for a fact that cata's avoided me like the plague because herald condi is a literal counter to their lack of cleansing overtime or boon spam.

My friend mentioned their presence in one MAT.

Core is still garbage with all the jalis/resistance nerfs though.

 

and so the prodigal son returns....

and yeah the EoD matchup for Condi Herald is pretty comfortable, the worst would probably be Virutoso and even then it's like still okay

 

To your point about brief upticks in Condi heralds,

Candidly I believe that there are a lot of people that really enjoy condi herald gameplay (a few "top" revs on NA definitely have a Crev on standby, and I always get comments that Crev looks really fun), but either haven't invested enough time to experiment or they've pigeonholed themselves into the "untouchable condi immune herald" that was spammed in the meta years ago. So whenever patches like the ones @Buran.3796 mentioned come up, most people dust off their Crev, build tanky like its pre-May 2021, and get upset that they can't abuse their sustain like before while also doing insane damage. It's like the May 2021 Crev nerf happened and everyone's been doubling down on maximizing sustain since, which to me makes absolutely no sense.

 

Granted I will say that there are some newer Condi herald builds floating out there that *have* been closer to what I think is viable for Crev, but mannnn the majority are legitimately years behind on the Crev tech, its actually insane. Even the Condi Herald in the most recent NA MAT was running staff + shield, like my brother in Christ why are you running this wet noodle of a setup??

 

 

Anyways apologies for Crev sidetrack, back to the regularly scheduled Power Rev show~

Edited by GeneralBM.5781
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On 3/29/2023 at 10:15 PM, Lighter.5631 said:

people farting out super speed with ranged specs caused shiro's mobility to matter little i think, also for sword being more melee

cata and scrapper basically replaced rev but ranged and more aoe and higher damage.

 

that's my opinion

And thus either remove Superspeed from being so abundant in other specs or put it back on IO, not like they left the upkeep as costly as it was before.

Also updated my suggestions with my reasoning to each of 'em.

Edited by Shao.7236
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Devastation has been a uninspired disaster since they revamped it and introduced Battle Scars. Assassin's Presence change was just another nail in the coffin of creativity.
I like the idea of Battle Scars, but not the fact that they take up a third of the traits. And with the changed Assassin's presence, there really isn't much choice left in Devastation.


About Battle Scars:
Assassin's Annihilation, the predecessor to Dance of Death/Battle Scars, was a smart and powerful choice that rewarded proper positioning in combat. Not only in PvE, but especially in WvW and PvP (at least for me). So outside of PVE, the introduction of Battle Scars was a nerf. Not only were there suddenly three life-stealing traits instead of one, they were also much weaker together than the predecessor was - albeit more reliably.
One suggestion would be to either completely remove the Adept and Master Battle Scar traits (you do not need 20+ stacks of Battle Scars anyway) and increase the effect of Dance of Death, or at least to combine the Adept and Master into a (new) single trait, making room for a new trait which hopefully isn't that pointless.


As for the rest of the Devastation traits, I have no ideas, but I agree that any suggestion made here would be better than what we have at the moment.

 

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I don't hate Devastation as a tree, but I feel (in the master and grandmaster tiers especially) I'm picking the least bad option available, rather than making a conscious decision to change what my spec can do.
I think a lot of traitlines across a lot of classes are just picking the "least bad" trait though, at the moment, so maybe there's a lot of updates that need to be done to provide more trait parity across the game.

Edited by Esufer.8762
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13 hours ago, Esufer.8762 said:

I think a lot of traitlines across a lot of classes are just picking the "least bad" trait though, at the moment, so maybe there's a lot of updates that need to be done to provide more trait parity across the game.

   In PvP it worked this way: you had amulets, runes and sigils which were arguably better than most of the others, so they either removed them, nerfed them or did both, until everything became so dull and useless that every power build runs berserker + divinity and the same 2-3 sigils.

   They succesfully nerfed FB until was removed from PvP and even now the spec still gets nerfs in PvP (like the latest changes in mantras); you should brace yourselves for having a quite decent range of b-tier builds with some c-tier traits across the Rev specs in PvP. Honestly Rev is so powerful right now at PvE that I wouldn't ditch the chance of PvE nerfs splashing over PvP, specially since ANet has neither interest or resources to pour into PvP/WvW.

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