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Deadeye - the silent killer became +1 Robin to Batman?


Macuk.4789

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Hey there, returning player here.

I really liked the deadeye when it was first introduced as a kiting 1v1 duel class, you had unblockable DJ with great damage, dagger storm THE ONLY cleave as a deadeye which did damage, shadowmeld to reposition and 3 seconds stealth on dodge to evade incoming bursts. I dont know what people complained about but the state of deadeye is... sad?

1 second stealth is just to lose target, every player who has experience in PvP can re target the deadeye look at him and kill him, that one second is more of a burst mechanism for DJ not really helpful to keep yourself alive. Death's Advance, its OK to be there but it takes so much time to set it and gain stealth and we all know how squishy deadeye is. Elite skill shadowmeld what a joke this is... how can this be an elite skill? So the only viable defense which is stealth access(half the skills still damage you) which allows you to reposition / escape is F2 where you need to get in combat not die just to have a stealth ready to use. So the safest defensive mechanism for Deadeye is to not be targeted, and the best way to achieve that is to be AFK? Yes shadowstep is always here but you can't use shadowstep for everything... Can you make an orchestra play too when DJ is fired? So deadeye can't duel, has no sustain, can't keep a nod, daredevil is always better with decap and all you are left is to pick your battles where you can +1 somewhere. Oh yes and dagger storm, an ELITE AOE SKILL with 90seconds CD we use to escape, very silently. What a silent killer this spec is. 

Edited by Macuk.4789
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15 hours ago, Macuk.4789 said:

 I dont know what people complained about

too much literal invisibility and the ability to remove the sparsely used mechanic that is its only counter

too much potential to leave fights and try again while the opponent still has their abilities on cooldown

1500 range

too much damage for also having all of the above

And you don't know what people complained about?

You don't realize why this specialization had to (and arguably still needs to) get neutered?

Edited by Fueki.4753
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1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

You don't realize why this specialization had to (and arguably still needs to) get neutered?

They can adjust it when the community can tolerate staff/sword/acrobatics/pistol/ core/daredevils instead of babyraging when they down to [see above].

The community was mad at the close to mid range builds first, then the evasive ones. The only reason the focus is on disengage potential and range now is because there's nothing left that the thieves can add value to their team with. 

OP is correct. If people complained about reasonable issues instead of generally flailing when a thief made them upset, we wouldn't be forced to camp rifle and crammed into +1ing people like literally everyone said our role was. 

Thief players are part of the playerbase. Trying to argue why they shouldn't be allowed to do anything for the sake of the game (even indirectly) won't fix anything. 

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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3 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

too much literal invisibility and the ability to remove the sparsely used mechanic that is its only counter

too much potential to leave fights and try again while the opponent still has their abilities on cooldown

1500 range

too much damage for also having all of the above

And you don't know what people complained about?

You don't realize why this specialization had to (and arguably still needs to) get neutered?

What measurement unit you used for too much invisibility? Stealth is not exclusive to thief, arguably it should be. Leaving fights is not at our liking is because we have to. As other classes play the whole game and can camp at nod and do their skill rotations thief is playing half the game 10 seconds burst than decap or +1 somewhere else and yes thats our role because 10 seconds of fight is all you bring to the table. Do you know the feeling when the ice cream truck comes and all the kids round up and buy ice cream of their choice and when thief wants to by one you only get whats left here you go 1 second stealth and no sustain you have mobility run to the next ice cream truck or try again tomorrow as you said. 1500 range (kneel) is not even used. Too much damage, I will not comment to that, because inflicting damage is about timing and experience in the spec you are playing. And no I have not seen a single relevant point to why should this spec be nerfed next to useless. All I see is players raging because they were winning a duel than a thief came and the said player was outnumbered and died. RAGE MODE ON nerf deadeye nerf thief I did not see him he did 10k damage in 4 seconds nerf stealth nerf evade damage ... delete him? Dont you get it? Thats the thrill of the game a sudden change of combat you panic or you react calmly and kill both or retreat? Fight or flight? BUT NO, you just want to be comfortable and nerf the only thing that is bringing adrenaline in a PvP game

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22 hours ago, Macuk.4789 said:

I really liked the deadeye when it was first introduced as a kiting 1v1 duel class, you had unblockable DJ with great damage, dagger storm THE ONLY cleave as a deadeye which did damage, shadowmeld to reposition and 3 seconds stealth on dodge to evade incoming bursts.

I was under the impression that it was introduced as a low-mobility anti-support/bunker buster. Favoring precise elimination of builds that would shrug off damage of most brusiers. 

Though I dare say what got the ball rolling was when players complained how clunky rifle was to play. Which is what kept the build in check despite it's high damage and stealth since it got hard countered by melee pressure. So deadeye required you to think like an actual sniper and put good positioning/situational awareness into consideration. 

But as history repeats, players don't like proactive playstyles. Combined with more players using the kit for trolling and stalking stragglers than picking off important targets gave the devs enough reasons to rework it.

When they did, and removed it's clunkiness is when it pretty much went from Simo Häyhä to John Wick. 

From my perspective though, the issue since that is they kept nerfing the wrong things. As the meta strategy for years has been to just run-n-gun using skirmisher's shot and dj.  But they only nerfed the stealth which in the grand scheme only pushed the kit further into a p/p 3.0. 

If they made kneel skills more rewarding than just running-n-gunning, on top of buffing cantrips then it would be far more balanced... and truer to it's French translation. 

 

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On 4/4/2023 at 12:09 AM, Macuk.4789 said:

Hey there, returning player here.

I really liked the deadeye when it was first introduced as a kiting 1v1 duel class, you had unblockable DJ with great damage, dagger storm THE ONLY cleave as a deadeye which did damage, shadowmeld to reposition and 3 seconds stealth on dodge to evade incoming bursts. I dont know what people complained about but the state of deadeye is... sad?

1 second stealth is just to lose target, every player who has experience in PvP can re target the deadeye look at him and kill him, that one second is more of a burst mechanism for DJ not really helpful to keep yourself alive. Death's Advance, its OK to be there but it takes so much time to set it and gain stealth and we all know how squishy deadeye is. Elite skill shadowmeld what a joke this is... how can this be an elite skill? So the only viable defense which is stealth access(half the skills still damage you) which allows you to reposition / escape is F2 where you need to get in combat not die just to have a stealth ready to use. So the safest defensive mechanism for Deadeye is to not be targeted, and the best way to achieve that is to be AFK? Yes shadowstep is always here but you can't use shadowstep for everything... Can you make an orchestra play too when DJ is fired? So deadeye can't duel, has no sustain, can't keep a nod, daredevil is always better with decap and all you are left is to pick your battles where you can +1 somewhere. Oh yes and dagger storm, an ELITE AOE SKILL with 90seconds CD we use to escape, very silently. What a silent killer this spec is. 

Deadeye is pretty strong though. I played with every iteration of the spec, and the current version is one of the strongest. Strong, dumb and simple(which is what I dislike about it, we could have a bit more complexity than "spam this one button unless focused").
SA rework made the traitline mandatory. You need a lot of different sources of stealth with as short duration as possible to capitalise on it the most, and DE is the best at this with 1 and 2 second duration memes. Almost permanent superspeed and almost no time spent in stealth means deadeye is no longer a sniper: it's not slow and it's not hidden. Just run circles around the enemy spamming spotter's shot. DJ once M7 procs, and resume the 2-spamming.
The actual "skill" involved playing a deadeye is just what you need to play anything squishy, combat awareness and general game knowledge(stuff like: the enemy scrapper just respawned with sneak gyro, do I really want to fullcap far and risk getting oneshot?).

So if you want to play a silent killer in GW2-s pvp, get a time machine. If you want to play deadeye, just adapt.

So crying that the spec is weak 

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Pretty hilarious thread, ngl. A deadeye complaining that he has to reset fights more often than he used to before getting those lucky crits. I was gonna write an actual response to the points raised, but sorry, this was just too good. I need a minute to find my sides again. Might need a telescope, as they left orbit.

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On 4/4/2023 at 8:42 AM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

nothing left that the thieves can add value to their team with

Thieves have always had the same value.

 

Roamers to take camps/sentries/scout/kill people on the outskirts of blobs/ kill people trying to make their way back to their blobs/ kill enemies trying to take camps/kill the 2 or 3 individuals trying to ninja towers. Tapping keeps to make wp unusable... and tapping towera/keepa/camps to distract.

 

I loved soloing t3 camps. If the enemy sent a larger force I'd escape but if they sent only 1 or two.. I'd kill them, then a guard, or two, run a little ways away if they sent more.... kill another guard or two... escape.. rince repeat and take the camps 

 

So the thief does have a lot they can do. Not full blob work but still very usefull. 

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On 4/4/2023 at 10:46 PM, cyberzombie.7348 said:

From my perspective though, the issue since that is they kept nerfing the wrong things. As the meta strategy for years has been to just run-n-gun using skirmisher's shot and dj.  But they only nerfed the stealth which in the grand scheme only pushed the kit further into a p/p 3.0. 

If they made kneel skills more rewarding than just running-n-gunning, on top of buffing cantrips then it would be far more balanced... and truer to it's French translation. 

 

This. If rifle 2 and 3 (standing and kneeling) were more than just damage dealers/ways to build initiative, you could buff the set to make the playstyle more interesting while also making it less spammy. 

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On 4/3/2023 at 6:09 PM, Macuk.4789 said:

Hey there, returning player here.

I really liked the deadeye when it was first introduced as a kiting 1v1 duel class, you had unblockable DJ with great damage, dagger storm THE ONLY cleave as a deadeye which did damage, shadowmeld to reposition and 3 seconds stealth on dodge to evade incoming bursts. I dont know what people complained about but the state of deadeye is... sad?

1 second stealth is just to lose target, every player who has experience in PvP can re target the deadeye look at him and kill him, that one second is more of a burst mechanism for DJ not really helpful to keep yourself alive. Death's Advance, its OK to be there but it takes so much time to set it and gain stealth and we all know how squishy deadeye is. Elite skill shadowmeld what a joke this is... how can this be an elite skill? So the only viable defense which is stealth access(half the skills still damage you) which allows you to reposition / escape is F2 where you need to get in combat not die just to have a stealth ready to use. So the safest defensive mechanism for Deadeye is to not be targeted, and the best way to achieve that is to be AFK? Yes shadowstep is always here but you can't use shadowstep for everything... Can you make an orchestra play too when DJ is fired? So deadeye can't duel, has no sustain, can't keep a nod, daredevil is always better with decap and all you are left is to pick your battles where you can +1 somewhere. Oh yes and dagger storm, an ELITE AOE SKILL with 90seconds CD we use to escape, very silently. What a silent killer this spec is. 

People are going to say that the gutting of shadow arts was a boost to thief, especially deadeye but it wasn't. ANet decided to "give" us a lesser version of what we already had because, according to Josh Davis, it was a source of frustration in pvp and wvw. It removed all stealth increasing traits, took speed boost while stealthed to 2 sec super speed, forced us to have a reworked merciful ambush that nobody ever used. But wait, there's more. If you act now, ANet will remove cool down reductions for trick skills, deception skills, signets (this one is pathetic and completely laughable, they removed cool down reduction and inserted grant 1 initiative) and turn our elite shadow meld into a, not really sure what it is now, all because, as Cohen put it, they were over achieving. Another thing I have noticed this past few days, our "unblockable" basilisk venom doesn't work all that well. A lot of classes are immune to it's effect. And of course there has been a multitude of initiative increases and reduction in power for pvp and wvw only. The "decision" to nerf stealth might have been acceptable IF they had nerfed stealth for all classes but they didn't because it seems ANet is hell bent on genocide for the thief. When they came out with trapper runes and saw that thief could use them to their advantage, what did ANet do? Did they rework the runes? No. Did they remove the runes? No. They removed canons, they removed siege repair but they didn't remove trapper runes. No they removed traps from thief so they couldn't use trapper runes. Another "fair" and unbias decision. So yea, welcome back to the dog and pony show.

 

Edit: You cannot find nor search for the original 28 June patch notes. ANet has removed it from the forums.

Edited by Bern.9613
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