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How to make Heal Warrior viable?


HeliosMagi.9867

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Right now Heal Warrior is not considered desirable, as it lacks critical boons and utilities that healers are expected to bring. In particular it lacks a way to provide protection, and to maintain Quickness uptime it has to use a minimum of 2 banners since the regen from Banner of Defense is non-negotiable, and because they have to be used off-cooldown you can't use the Stability from Banner of Tactics reactivly. Off the top of my head I can think of 3 changes to make Heal Warrior more viable:

Double the Quickness duration on Warhorn 4; Assuming Doubled Standards and 100% Boon Duration, this will enable 100% Quickness uptime with just Banner of Defense, freeing up a utility slot for boss-specific utilities.

Make Mending Might apply to allies; This would enable Warrior's many might-generating abilities to double as a mini-Regen.

Make Spellbreaker's Guard Counter apply Protection to it's entire subgroup; This would give Warrior a way to provide Protection to it's party. Also consider increasing the duration since by Full Counter's nature being able to use it off-cooldown is unrealistic. Would also enable Heal Warrior to excel in fights with Tanking mechanics, cause let's be honest, have the class with highest base durability plus an entire spec based on blocking and countering damage being unable to tank is just wasted potential.

What do you guys think?

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I think I have suggested multiple times to make Spellbreaker the support spec, since it kinda fills in the Defense/Tank class/spec from other MMOs, but in GW 2 tanks are supports either in boons, healing or damage mitigation, which means that the RP of Spellbreaker could be stop "the Magic" from killing your team and maybe buff your team. It just needs one of the rows of traits that are generally useless to be rework with the group idea and one of the grand master traits to make FC group thing mitigation or something, also rework on meditations to be channeled group skills, something like the Vindicator heal skills.
If Anet wants to keep the quickness on core I think they should fill that role entirely on one row of traits in discipline( marshal cadence + Heightened focus in one trait since they kinda do the same thing but one is kitten), sounds reasonable it already has several dead traits anyway , this way it spreads the group support to several traitlines to make a complete build instead of running Tactics to carry the whole thing.
Speaking of Tactics it should get another rework to get the whole healing thing rolling with some way for continuous heal and some burst heals, also don't understand why Tactics has better selfish damage multipliers than supposed damage traitlines instead of being some kind of group damage multiplier. 

The best option is Anet making Actual support elite spec, but after the Mini Expansion announcement I don't think they will be making any more elite specs.

Edited by Vancho.8750
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2 more thing, both concerning the Displine trait line:

Change Vengeful Return to also make allies you revive have more health, and make reviving allies also have a chance of rallying you during Vengeance. Would make Heal Warrior have a niche of being able to recover from what would otherwise be a wipe.

Change Heightened Focus to something that benefits a support build, since none of the Grandmaster traits in discipline are relevant to a support build and DPS builds always pick either Axe or Burst Mastery. Maybe a trait that makes burst skills grant barrier or boons?

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Healing support Warrior lacks two critical things:

- Access to boons and heals at the same time. Currently boons are split between banners and shouts, while heals are also split between banners and shouts (banners have barrier and regeneration boon). this means its impossible to take a proper support kit since you can only have 3 utility skills and not 5-6.

- No dedicated support main-hand weapon to go with warhorn, which ideally should be the mace.

 

The elite specs lacking healing isn't even the problem, since even Core Warrior is very close to being an effective healer.

1. Banners need flip-over skills that provide healing, so that shouts aren't absolutely required. This allows to take a good selection of boons and heals while still providing Quickness, and you can still fill in the gaps with a shout or two. Perhaps shout healing should be changed to barrier as well.

2. A banner in the heal slot (#6), and a shout in the elite slot (#0) to provide more even skill distribution.

3. Convert mace and hammer into support weapons, by giving Warrior a trait that causes all soft and hard CC to heal allies, directly converting all Defiance Break damage into AoE healing.

4. (Optional) Rework one of the traitlines of Spellbreaker to provide a supportive role, and honestly maybe take Spellbreaker out of the damage role entirely since two DPS-based subclasses is already more than enough.

5. (Optional), Maybe introduce shield as an alternative to warhorn, for providing a different set of boons than warhorn that are more defensive rather than offensive (e.g Protection). Shield Bash can also be used to heal allies with the aformentioned trait that converts Defiant Break damage into healing.

Edited by SoftFootpaws.9134
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Yea core Warrior is allready a half good Support spec. Only Problem Here is you could only Go for shouts Focus (means heal plus Instant boons/effects) or Banners (means boons over time plus quickness). Biggest Problem is you can not hold quickness long enough without going for 2 Banners means you need to fill 2 utility skills for a Skill that is used once every 30 Seconds. (Kinda lame). Means you also loose a source for more healing since shouts are you only group heal skills. 

 

What we need is:

1.An Idea would be make shouts barrier instead of heal (also let Marshall orders heal trait do barrier as Well instead of heal)

2. Make a new e-spec that is focused on ranged boon/barrier and dps with new utility skills that are actually usefull. (Staff as supp Main Hand weapon / staff is focused on dealing good ranged AA Chain DPS while have some self Defence/supp Mixed Options as weapon skills)

3. The new e-spec burst mechanic as the Main supp/boon/barrier gaining or Just high Telegraphed hard DPS ranged Option (U could choose per traitline would make this more ezy to Balance out)

 

 

Those 3 steps would let us Focus on boon/barrier Support but also make warrs more tanky in itself while (If you Go for dmg instead of barrier supp) Finaly give us some range Options at the Same time. Just a total plus for every warr Main i know.

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A very simple change that would make a huge difference is doubling the base Quickness on Warhorn 4 from 2s to 4s. This would make it possible to have 100% Quickness uptime with just Banner of Defense, freeing up a utility slot.

I actually just put out another list of proposed changes to improve Heal Warrior on Reddit, which you can view here.

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8 hours ago, nucklepuckk.1805 said:

Make a trait for Full Counter to heal yourself and allies. Make a mainhand weapon (dagger? mace?) have support utility so warriors can X/Mace or X/Horn or X/Shield. Do something with shouts and mediations so you aren't locked into all three banners. 

There is a trait. It is called Soldier's Comfort and is in Tactics. Shouts are fine, their problem is that their trait shares a tier with two other support traits. For spellbreaker Guard Counter, Revenge Counter, and the Meditations need to grant their boons in an AoE.

Warhorn needs more quickness on Charge to reduce reliance on Banners. Moving Martial Cadence to the Master tier would open up Heal/quickness as well.

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problem is, everything is insufficient.

 

tactics, shouts, banners, warhorn

 

even with everything above mixed and matched together. its just insufficient and clunky.

 

lack of healing output, party wide defensive boons, protection, resolution, etc..

 

something all the successful healing specs put out in abundance. warrior just doesn't have.

 

 

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3 hours ago, eXruina.4956 said:

problem is, everything is insufficient.

 

tactics, shouts, banners, warhorn

 

even with everything above mixed and matched together. its just insufficient and clunky.

 

lack of healing output, party wide defensive boons, protection, resolution, etc..

 

something all the successful healing specs put out in abundance. warrior just doesn't have.

 

 

Warrior has many things other classes also don't have in abundance. For example, the ability to spam Resistance (a rare boon), allows you to ignore a significant number of mechanics. such as trivialising the Siren's Reef final boss by making the Chill condition completely ineffective and not even needing cleansing.

 

Not every healer has to be built the same way, and they don't all need the same tools.  QuickHeal Warrior was played for a while in raids before the nerf to Tactical Reload, and despite being clunky it was seen as on the same level as HFB and HAM since its Quickness output is much more efficient (80% uptime with one skill) and it had a very good boon output and though Protection was missing, shout spam had such a high HP/S it didn't matter.

 

If not for the TR nerf, it would've become meta with a few small tweaks.

Edited by SoftFootpaws.9134
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6 hours ago, eXruina.4956 said:

problem is, everything is insufficient.

 

tactics, shouts, banners, warhorn

 

even with everything above mixed and matched together. its just insufficient and clunky.

That is because you can't take the key traits all at the same time. You can't trait warhorn and healing on burst. You can't trait for quickness on burst and heal on shout at the same time. Because they never gave Warrior a MH support weapon, all the support rides on using bursts and utilities for effect, but those traits all conflict with each other.

 

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On 4/14/2023 at 3:21 PM, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

QuickHeal Warrior was played for a while in raids before the nerf to Tactical Reload, and despite being clunky it was seen as on the same level as HFB and HAM since its Quickness output is much more efficient (80% uptime with one skill) and it had a very good boon output and though Protection was missing, shout spam had such a high HP/S it didn't matter.

 

If not for the TR nerf, it would've become meta with a few small tweaks.

This has got to be the most deranged post I've read in the last while, and this is the official forums we are talking about. 

Even putting aside the discussion about the objective strength of quickheal Warrior, how in the blue flames of the shadow realm did you arrive at the opinion that it was "seen as on the same level as HFB and HAM"?

  • When it was on a meta build website? (it never was)
  • When every squad ran it? (it saw close to 0 play)
  • When it was discussed in ANY form of community platform? (it is consistently ridiculed)
  • When one streamer put out a build guide for it? (and you scroll down to the comments for multiple essays on how disingenuous the video is)
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41 minutes ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

This has got to be the most deranged post I've read in the last while, and this is the official forums we are talking about. 

Even putting aside the discussion about the objective strength of quickheal Warrior, how in the blue flames of the shadow realm did you arrive at the opinion that it was "seen as on the same level as HFB and HAM"?

  • When it was on a meta build website? (it never was)
  • When every squad ran it? (it saw close to 0 play)
  • When it was discussed in ANY form of community platform? (it is consistently ridiculed)
  • When one streamer put out a build guide for it? (and you scroll down to the comments for multiple essays on how disingenuous the video is)

Fwiw Mukluk was pushing it.

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6 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Fwiw Mukluk was pushing it.

not taking anything from muk or any of our streamers, they're mostly great and amazing players putting out content way, way above the skill level of the average player.

 

in fact i admire many of these guys. got my kitten handed to me by some of them a few times too in fact, always a treat, and encountering em always left me a bit star struck. 😁

 

its just these fanatics throwing their names around to push their agendas.

 

you gotta walk the walk first friends. you don't just put up a picture of micheal jordan and say cuz he can do it. cuz bluntly put you guys aren't him. 🙂

Edited by eXruina.4956
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7 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Fwiw Mukluk was pushing it.

Literally the last bullet point is referencing that. If you scroll down into the comments you will see Mukluk himself say that you should be taking 2x Banners instead of the 1x Banner the video disingenuously recommends, which cuts the healing shown in the video a minimum of 33% (more because the utility slot shouts have lower CDs than To the Limit). 

Not that the healing was good in the first place.

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  • 2 weeks later...
20 minutes ago, Blackthunder.8679 said:

The question I keep asking myself when I see this kind of thread is - Who picked warrior prof to be a healer/support/ranged in the first place?

Who picked Ele to be a mage-knight (Weaver)? Who picked Thief to be a magic caster (Specter)? Who picked Necro to pop holes in people with a gun? 

Warrior is the weird one where none of the Elite specs have expanded it's theme. Ostensibly, that's the whole point of Elite specs. 

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25 minutes ago, Blackthunder.8679 said:

The question I keep asking myself when I see this kind of thread is - Who picked warrior prof to be a healer/support/ranged in the first place?

 

 

 

 

 

What Jzaku said, but at the same time when the game came out, they sold big on the idea that every profession would be able to fill every roll, even warrior. This entire time our support has been Banners or Vigorous Shouts. We've never seen this aspect of our core identity expanded upon.

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Phalanx Strength GM trait should also gain the additional effect of having Mending Might heals affect allies. Replace Vengeful Return(Discipline) with a trait called "Impact Guard" that provides Barrier and protection to allies on burst use (effectiveness based on adrenaline spent) . 

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