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New Weaver non functional - sorry to half to ask - no dual wield available


Nissi.3462

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Sorry for the question I am new.  Got 80 got most of weaver unlocked and some mounts and was going to start trying my build.  

 

Problem is that when I hit F1 (or click Fire) it changes ALL 5 slots to fire.  There is a very brief glance at the dual but it rolls like a flipping card on arrival.  No matter what I hit I cannot end up in button 1 & 2 in one element, 4 & 5 in another and a dual button on 3 that is available.

 

I am guessing this is me, but if anyone can help me figure out how to get Weaver to play anything like I see on You Tuibe or the builder that would be awesome 🙂

 

Thank you in advance.

Nissi

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Oddly you can still use dule skills but your window is less then say a sec. I think its better for the weaver class to play more of an time base for dule skills then having to doble swap to get to your 3 skills. I think some how anet made the weaver class stronger by failing to comply disable the dule skills.

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2 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

It strengthens Elements of Rage, and means you can more quickly access specific offhand skills, but it weakens a lot of the synergies that weaver can pull off, sometimes without the player noticing if they're not playing close attention to how their build works.

I think it would be a cool way to play weaver though traits that allow you to keep this "temp bug fix" though you realty do not see trait that changes how your elite spec changes in use. (Maybe let tempest cast there overloads at an rages and catalyes have there fields f5 stay on them etc..)

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On 4/16/2023 at 1:50 PM, Ram.5981 said:

Anet disabled the Weaver trait due to an exploit.  Instead of disabling combat tonics (part of the exploit), they choose to cripple an entire class.

On 4/16/2023 at 3:15 PM, misterman.1530 said:

And people were, apparently, hitting for 300k. Least in WvW that's what people were saying

Because of course they had to penalize everyone for what the predictable WvW cheaters were doing. Of COURSE they had to roll out something half baked and RUIN the entire class. Of course. And also of course, because they simply had to screw over other players who are smart and don't use exploits. This is like the old Ice Bow exploit but the response is infinitely more stupid and infinitely more insulting. 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Kitala.5840 said:

Because of course they had to penalize everyone for what the predictable WvW cheaters were doing. Of COURSE they had to roll out something half baked and RUIN the entire class.

Not the entire class but rather one elite spec. Facts. Catalyst and Tempest is still fully playable outside one niche trait. 

And yes it is appropriate to disable a single elite spec because the bug was disturbing every game mode and every single profession out there. Imagine trying to play spvp/wvw with ele oneshotting a full zerg down by itself. And ofc clearing raid encounters/CM strikes solo is not something you want to leave ingame. Imagine HT CM with 10 bugged ele. 

The thing that ur advocating for is "lets leave bugged weaver so that weaver players wouldnt feel "suffering" at the cost of everyone else". Im sorry to tell you this, but in any decent society the interest of majority is put above minority. So the best we can do is wait untill anet fixes up weaver. Its not like they disable things just for fun lol. 

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21 minutes ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Not the entire class but rather one elite spec. Facts. Catalyst and Tempest is still fully playable outside one niche trait. 

Every elementalist build on Hardstuck except fresh air PvP catalyst and support tempest uses the fire traitline, and hence Sunspot - and there's a variant even of support tempest that runs fire. That's hardly 'niche'. You could build without it, but the builds using fire are the meta builds for a reason. Sure, it's playable, but disabling Sunspot has nerfed the entire profession, even if you don't pay attention to the effect it has.

21 minutes ago, soulknight.9620 said:

And yes it is appropriate to disable a single elite spec because the bug was disturbing every game mode and every single profession out there. Imagine trying to play spvp/wvw with ele oneshotting a full zerg down by itself. And ofc clearing raid encounters/CM strikes solo is not something you want to leave ingame. Imagine HT CM with 10 bugged ele. 

The thing that ur advocating for is "lets leave bugged weaver so that weaver players wouldnt feel "suffering" at the cost of everyone else". Im sorry to tell you this, but in any decent society the interest of majority is put above minority. So the best we can do is wait untill anet fixes up weaver. Its not like they disable things just for fun lol. 

I think it's a fair criticism that they could have disabled combat tonics instead. Unless there's some other manifestation of the bug I'm not aware of.

Edited by draxynnic.3719
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19 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Every elementalist build on Hardstuck except fresh air PvP catalyst and support tempest uses the fire traitline, and hence Sunspot - and there's a variant even of support tempest that runs fire. That's hardly 'niche'. You could build without it, but the builds using fire are the meta builds for a reason. Sure, it's playable, but disabling Sunspot has nerfed the entire profession, even if you don't pay attention to the effect it has.

Ofc it nerfed builds that use fire, its common sense. But i would argue that this change "ruined" the whole class. There are alternatives and you can avoid using fire trait line if u really wanted that condi cleanse synergy with fire aura and a bit of condi dmg if traited. Its not like anet deliberatly wanted to nerf ele or anything. Its techical issues that needs to be resolved and im sure they will be. Its a matter of time and there are plenty of options to go for while we wait.

 

19 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I think it's a fair criticism that they could have disabled combat tonics instead. Unless there's some other manifestation of the bug I'm not aware of.

It may or may not be. We dont know the scope of this problem. Combat tonic may have been just a single way of triggering this bug. But all of that is just speculation. Ive never seen anet took down a trait/skill/mechanic just for lulz. So if they decided that it was the right course of action then it must be. 

 

Edited by soulknight.9620
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1 hour ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Ofc it nerfed builds that use fire, its common sense. But i would argue that this change "ruined" the whole class. There are alternatives and you can avoid using fire trait line if u really wanted that condi cleanse synergy with fire aura and a bit of condi dmg if traited. Its not like anet deliberatly wanted to nerf ele or anything. Its techical issues that needs to be resolved and im sure they will be. Its a matter of time and there are plenty of options to go for while we wait.

And those alternatives still leave you worse off for your role, so it's a lose-lose situation. There's a reason why fire is used on so many builds - the traitline supports both power and condition damage, and for condition damage, it adds more condition damage than earth does. So unless you're a support build or a power build that synergises well with arcane, there isn't a good substitute.

Is it playable in terms of running around in open world (or public instances like the bihourly Dragonstorm)? Sure. But in competitive and any 5- or 10-player PvE? It's a significant disadvantage.

1 hour ago, soulknight.9620 said:

 

It may or may not be. We dont know the scope of this problem. Combat tonic may have been just a single way of triggering this bug. But all of that is just speculation. Ive never seen anet took down a trait/skill/mechanic just for lulz. So if they decided that it was the right course of action then it must be. 

 

Not impossible, but given that the known issue is related to combat tonics, I'm sceptical that there just happens to be another exploit that doesn't involve them.

As for the "if they decided it was the right course of action then it must be" line... hahaha. Because ArenaNet have absolutely never made a mistake before, right, let alone mistakes involving hitting one thing when something else was the true source of the problem? Maybe there is something we don't know, but if there is, you don't know it either. Based on what we DO know, disabling combat tonics would have done the job with less impact on players.

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Just now, draxynnic.3719 said:

Is it playable in terms of running around in open world (or public instances like the bihourly Dragonstorm)? Sure. But in competitive and any 5- or 10-player PvE? It's a significant disadvantage.

I would have agreed to abovementioned arguments if it was a balance decision on anets part. There is literary no point in discussing this because it is not a balancing issue. Its not here to stay. Its a "force majeure" to some extent. Kittens happen and it will be fixed. While it is being fixed we can either use something else (diff traits/trait lines/elite specs/classes) or dont play at all. There is literary no point in crying out loud at anet to "fix now!" since it wont actually change anything. 

6 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Not impossible, but given that the known issue is related to combat tonics, I'm sceptical that there just happens to be another exploit that doesn't involve them.

As for the "if they decided it was the right course of action then it must be" line... hahaha. Because ArenaNet have absolutely never made a mistake before, right, let alone mistakes involving hitting one thing when something else was the true source of the problem? Maybe there is something we don't know, but if there is, you don't know it either. Based on what we DO know, disabling combat tonics would have done the job with less impact on players.

Im not going to comment on the technical issues cause well like i said we just dont know.

As for mistakes. Sure. Everyone makes mistakes. If someone denies it - he lies. That still doesnt change the fact that: 1) during weekends devs do not work, they have families and need to rest like all of you people; 2) support/crysis team made a decision on disabling these traits based on the reports AND tech dev decision since these decisions are never made without consulting with tech devs. These changes are being made so that a vast majority of people could actually play spvp/wvw/pve without this bug user fiesta during the weekend and until the fix is shipped.  

In any crysis situation its always better to go for the safest choice instead of "oh we disabled tonics and a few hours later they found another way to bug it". 

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I'm in the boat of 'they should have disabled combat tonics' vs the 'kill ele' method.  Granted, yes it was probably faster and easier to disable weaver and sunspot, but there was no reason to disable sunspot. The exploit worked on every on-proc trait for all the trait lines. Sunspot was the most abused for the AoE burn. There's vids of Electric Discharge in Air Trait nuking single-target, too. If another way to do the exploit was found, then it can get looked into and disabled as well.

 

I don't like playing the other specs/core as much as weaver, as commented above, nuking sunspot killed most of the viable build options. I would rather play another class then play on a class where I am limited to my builds. And I'd rather not play another class, as I main weaver. No other class/spec is as enjoyable to me.

 

Given the general sentiment of Anet/Ele (and there's a reason for it), I really don't expect this to be a huge priority for Anet to fix. Unlike if this happened on FB/Druid/DD or really any other class/spec, it would probably have been fixed by now, or at least have received more communication from Anet about it.

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22 hours ago, soulknight.9620 said:

If you enjoy this bug so much you can play this way by using unravel. I would even argue that unravel provides a better experience for abovementioned gamestyle. 

If only unravel stop you comply from using an dule skill right now there is a very small window to use dule skills right after you swap atuments. I am very much in favor for unravel to work that way or have an trait that changes your eleit spec class effect (i kind of want to see that for all eleit spec.)

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I would've preferred that Anet nerfed the cb potions. That being said i dont think nerfing/disabling the cb potions is as easy as people make it out to be. There are tons of cb potions that work in different ways, some already 10+ years old. The system is probably full of spaghetti code which makes it impossible to hotfix. The bug needed to be fixed asap and although i really like to play my Weaver i agree with disabling the dual attune trait. 

Disabling the sunspot trait however is plain stupid and therefore should be reverted asap. Also the lack of communication/updates is annoying af. Anet isn't that small of a company. 24/7 tech support should be standard. 

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10 hours ago, soulknight.9620 said:

I would have agreed to abovementioned arguments if it was a balance decision on anets part. There is literary no point in discussing this because it is not a balancing issue. Its not here to stay. Its a "force majeure" to some extent. Kittens happen and it will be fixed. While it is being fixed we can either use something else (diff traits/trait lines/elite specs/classes) or dont play at all. There is literary no point in crying out loud at anet to "fix now!" since it wont actually change anything. 

It wasn't a balance decision, sure, but I was responding to your claims that it was 'a niche trait' (it isn't) or that you can work around it by not using the fire traitline (technically true, but outside of support or fresh air builds, you're probably still worse off).

10 hours ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Im not going to comment on the technical issues cause well like i said we just dont know.

As for mistakes. Sure. Everyone makes mistakes. If someone denies it - he lies. That still doesnt change the fact that: 1) during weekends devs do not work, they have families and need to rest like all of you people; 2) support/crysis team made a decision on disabling these traits based on the reports AND tech dev decision since these decisions are never made without consulting with tech devs. These changes are being made so that a vast majority of people could actually play spvp/wvw/pve without this bug user fiesta during the weekend and until the fix is shipped.  

In any crysis situation its always better to go for the safest choice instead of "oh we disabled tonics and a few hours later they found another way to bug it". 

Crisis or not, disabling an entire elite specialisation and substantially nerfing the rest of the profession just on the off chance that someone found a way to trigger the bug without a combat tonic should not have been the first response. If they come out and say that they realised that the bug could be triggered in other ways (now that it's apparently been fixed, they can), then fine, but they aren't talking, and until they do your argument is an argument from ignorance. The information we have suggests that disabling combat tonics would have fixed it.

I suspect the real reason is as krytan assassin said - they had tech for quickly disabling traits, but never predicted that combat tonics might cause an issue and therefore don't have a means of quickly disabling them. Maybe, though, now that it's happened, developing such a tool could be considered (although where that would be on the priority list is hard to judge).

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