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Congratulations, you've ensured nades scrapper is the only remaining choice to scrapper...


shion.2084

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So... you removed function gyro's damage by half (a ranged damage option with tradeoff that you won't get the stomp if you use it to down).   You've removed stealth which can be used to disengage from mele.  And you've removed the ability to get out of combat using superspeed, thus ensuring we won't want to mele.  

 

So yup, nades is now the crutch that every scrapper is going to have to rely on.   Hope that's what was intended.

 

If you were going to kill stealth gyro, then just do it and give us something viable that makes us bruisers.

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I'm glad they toned down the cheese build. It wasn't healthy regardless of how strong it was, but they did so without giving any compensation to the other builds that are underperforming right now. 

Bruiser Scrapper and Support Scrapper are both underperforming and in need of buffs. Unfortunately, both got some harsh nerfs this patch, which drives them from barely viable to unviable. 

Scrapper, at this point, just needs a rework. Scrap (pun intended) the whole thing and start over. 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

And I don't want to hear another person whining ever that scrappers are using nades.  Because I use to happily run my mele build, but you guys all got your nerf.  Enjoy it.

Note that in the last two patches Scrappers speed has been reduced to half (and we couldn't catch will benders, warriors, rangers, thieves before!)

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6 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

So... you removed function gyro's damage by half (a ranged damage option with tradeoff that you won't get the stomp if you use it to down).   You've removed stealth which can be used to disengage from mele.  And you've removed the ability to get out of combat using superspeed, thus ensuring we won't want to mele.  

 

So yup, nades is now the crutch that every scrapper is going to have to rely on.   Hope that's what was intended.

 

Thief was repeatedly nerfed by increased initiative costs, that made trickery mandatory. Devs added over ime way better initiative management, which made these nerfs pointless. "Spamming problem" never actually solved.
Stealth duration nerfs before the SA rework forced people into playing SA... but they actually reworked SA into a deadeye traitline so now everything is fixed(multidollar company).

So there is precedent of the devs shooting at everything but the target.

 

7 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

If you were going to kill stealth gyro, then just do it and give us something viable that makes us bruisers.

Indeed, if a skill is a tool to do X, and the devs want it to not be good at X, one would expect a rework. But DE already had its elite gutted, so there is a worrying precedent. If they do the same thing to stealth gyro, that will inform us that this is their new way of doing things: Just straight up remove stuff they can't balance by changing one numerical value.

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They nerfed the COEFFICIENT by half. The actual possible damage is nerfed by much more than half, because of how crit damage modifiers work. It's literally a wet noodle skill now. As a more bruiser oriented scrapper your burst options are now: hammer 2. That's it. Everything else is stationary or easily kited. You can't secure a kill on a moving target without function gyro. You literally end up spamming egun autos. Ofc toolkit still exists, but taking that it that means that you will probably need to drop the signature bruiser/duelist scrapper ability: bulwark gyro, in order to have 2 stunbreaks. Literally what's the point of playing a duelist if you have literally 0 killing potential left on top of other specs being far more durable. It's just dogtier trash now.

 

Function gyro nerf is absolutely the WORST nerf to happen to scrapper overall in the past years. It is a nerf to an entire class, even for builds where it wasn't overperforming. Anet will hopefully realize this when scrapper becomes literally non existant in a while after the nade scrapper build inevitably dies. 

 

I literally just don't get it. How can you be so clueless about a class you designed yourself? Do you even think this stuff true Anet? Just like last time when you wanted to make gyro's stationary. It took an entire forum uproar for you to revert that idea. But just the fact you can come up with something so insanely kitten proved you have no idea whatsoever about this class and how it synergizes with utilities and traits. I will just stop playing this shitshow of a class and become a ranger main. At least that class has build options. Something engineer used to have. 

Edited by Koensol.5860
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7 hours ago, Koensol.5860 said:

Function gyro nerf is absolutely the WORST nerf to happen to scrapper overall in the past years. It is a nerf to an entire class, even for builds where it wasn't overperforming.

I dont know... I doubt the function gyro nerf affect a core engineer.

Could be wrong though.

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Oh you poor thing...I was going to continue that sarcasm but I really can't be bothered.
Ain't nothing special about what they did buddy, be thankful you're not the pink class where they would have slapped a CD increase on for good measure.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Disenchanter
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Defender
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mirage_Cloak
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Disillusionment (5s to 1s OMEGALUL)
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Restoring_Reprieve

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On 4/19/2023 at 12:30 PM, apharma.3741 said:

Oh you poor thing...I was going to continue that sarcasm but I really can't be bothered.
Ain't nothing special about what they did buddy, be thankful you're not the pink class where they would have slapped a CD increase on for good measure.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Disenchanter
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Defender
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mirage_Cloak
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Disillusionment (5s to 1s OMEGALUL)
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Restoring_Reprieve

They literally have killed every non Nade Scrapper option.

Engineer still has Holosmith, yeah. But Core and Mech are a joke.

Mesmer still has Virtuoso as an unkillable thing that deals 10 stacks of confusion and has unblockable damage; still has Meme one shot Chrono and Bunker Chrono. The only  current overnefed mesmer is Mirage.

Core mesmer outshines every core engineer option in every aspect, etc.

But welp, I can't expect good changes for the rest of classes when the balance is done by a Ele main. That's why ele has that diversity in all gamemodes, and the rest of specs will be nerfed if they are better than an ele in X aspect (check WvW support Scrapper hard nerfs and Tenpest hard buffs xD) even condition core engineer is nerfed into the ground in PvE with no reason, so don't come with "ele is hard :(" cause core condition engineer is by far more complex than any pve ele build.

 

Edited by AlPower.2476
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Mm you sound like the standard ele player now. Always complaining aboot something. "O noo my sususuuperspeed has been shortened." That's you..... Let me know when it's to a second and a half, or less. And I'll tell you I still don't care. Cuz your wells do to much damage as well. Or maybe it's the backwards casting of skills that ele got taken away. But you mr.engi can keep using that tactic for years with nades and aoe skills that don't need a target.

Edited by Eddbopkins.2630
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43 minutes ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

Mm you sound like the standard ele player now. Always complaining aboot something. "O noo my sususuuperspeed has been shortened."

This person clearly hasn't read the thread. The thread is about complaining about nerfs to random things instead of nerfing grenades, which are the same thing they are crying about because: they don't need a target, they can be used while running, etc.

 

I'm starting to think that most of the people who hate engineers have serious reading comprehension issues.

53 minutes ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

"O noo my sususuuperspeed has been shortened." That's you..... Let me know when it's to a second and a half, or less. And I'll tell you I still don't care. 

Super speed was used because Scrapper has no teleport. The rifle isn't worth taking only for that jump, and rockets are not worth taking over a stun break, barrier, or stab source. So no grenadiers are in melee combat. Most melee classes have a large amount of boon spam, passive blocks, passive condition cleanse, movement options, aura spam, blind spam, etc. We only have CC pressure (easily countered by kitten stun break and stab spammers, including your precious ele). We have no good ranged options aside from grenades (now with function gyro nerf, even less). Grenades are a single build over too many other builds Scrapper used to have, which were "ok" because of super speed. By nerfing super speed, they are literally killing any other build instead of nerfing the stealth bomber one. A melee Scrapper can't handle a fight against any meta class without the need to run away to reload its long asf CDs, condition cleanse, or healing. A guardian only has to press "elite skill" or use the defensive passive and active options it has. Same with a warrior and their multiple condition cleanses, stun breaks, blocks, etc. So they are not forced to run away, and even if they are, it's an easy task due to the high mobility they have. Necro is the only class that isn't forced to run away (well, they can't though), but they are quite oppressive.

 

1 hour ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

 Cuz your wells do to much damage as well. Or maybe it's the backwards casting of skills that ele got taken away. But you mr.engi can keep using that tactic for years with nades and aoe skills that don't need a target.

Wells don't do damage. So I don't know how you're able to say that lie. Blast gyro has no damage because it's a hard CC, shredder gyro damage is pretty bad for only a damage-focused skill, and you can easily avoid it. It was taken as a complement to the stealth + grenade barrage combo, so Gyros are not a problem. Bulwark Gyro and Purge are defensive and very weak if you compare them to the amount of defensive options that classes like Eles, Warriors, Guardians, and Vindicators have.

 

Anet could have nerfed grenades and stealth bomb, and buffed defensive options to compensate and make Scrapper a kitten melee fighter as it always should have been.

 

So you, Mr. aura, blind, protection, stab, invulnerability spam, are lying very hard. All the problems that you've mentioned were grenade combo problems. Anet is nerfing the entire Scrapper instead of attacking the grenade problem plus stealth burst damage, that toxic mechanic that was abused for years by rangers, deadeyes, mesmers in the past. This is not the first time.

 

Oh; and by nerfing grenades power coeff; they could buff  its condi damage then, so "Core" would be not touched. Core power builds are pretty bad; condition is by far better and thats why it should be improved in condi ways.

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38 minutes ago, AlPower.2476 said:

Oh; and by nerfing grenades power coeff; they could buff  its condi damage then, so "Core" would be not touched. Core power builds are pretty bad; condition is by far better and thats why it should be improved in condi ways.

Yeah I like this. If it were up to me, I'd probably fix grenades by:

  • remove backward casting. Feels really bad to be on the other end of this. Opponent is running away at full speed while doing constant direct damage to you. Given the way most things work in the combat system, this shouldn't be allowed.
  • baseline the grenade trait. You shouldn't have to spec explosions just to make the kit usable
  • add some confusion stacks to flash grenade. Blind ain't what it used to be. It's almost not even worth throwing flash grenades right now, given how many multi-hit attacks there are. Some confusion would give condi builds a reason to use that skill.
  • maybe shave power off grenade barrage and add it back with a 1s stack of each of the kit's condi: bleed,blind,confusion,chill,poison - very flavourful. probably too strong
Edited by coro.3176
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15 hours ago, AlPower.2476 said:

They literally have killed every non Nade Scrapper option.

Engineer still has Holosmith, yeah. But Core and Mech are a joke.

Mesmer still has Virtuoso as an unkillable thing that deals 10 stacks of confusion and has unblockable damage; still has Meme one shot Chrono and Bunker Chrono. The only  current overnefed mesmer is Mirage.

Core mesmer outshines every core engineer option in every aspect, etc.

But welp, I can't expect good changes for the rest of classes when the balance is done by a Ele main. That's why ele has that diversity in all gamemodes, and the rest of specs will be nerfed if they are better than an ele in X aspect (check WvW support Scrapper hard nerfs and Tenpest hard buffs xD) even condition core engineer is nerfed into the ground in PvE with no reason, so don't come with "ele is hard :(" cause core condition engineer is by far more complex than any pve ele build.

 

The point was you're not the only one who's had large nerfs (50% or higher) making a skill or class of skills unusable. Mesmer has builds now, but had nothing competitive for a long time after the one dodge meme. I cautioned people against this kind of balancing when they went for mesmer years ago and still people went ahead and wanted skills outright removing, so it's no surprise it keeps going, and you're now feeling it on your favourite class.
That's not me endorsing it, it's me saying the chickens came home to roost.

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11 hours ago, AlPower.2476 said:

I'm starting to think that most of the people who hate engineers have serious reading comprehension issues.

No thats just about everyone on the forums including arenanet. That and emotional regulation issues which may be the cause of the rrading comprehension ssues. My best guess is that most people read until they are emotionally triggered then stop at that point and either start typing a response or select the confused emoji when they're incapable of formulating an argument to the little portion that they actually read.

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18 hours ago, coro.3176 said:

Yeah I like this. If it were up to me, I'd probably fix grenades by:

  • remove backward casting. Feels really bad to be on the other end of this. Opponent is running away at full speed while doing constant direct damage to you. Given the way most things work in the combat system, this shouldn't be allowed.
  • baseline the grenade trait. You shouldn't have to spec explosions just to make the kit usable
  • add some confusion stacks to flash grenade. Blind ain't what it used to be. It's almost not even worth throwing flash grenades right now, given how many multi-hit attacks there are. Some confusion would give condi builds a reason to use that skill.
  • maybe shave power off grenade barrage and add it back with a 1s stack of each of the kit's condi: bleed,blind,confusion,chill,poison - very flavourful. probably too strong

 

Y'know, I'd be okay with this if it allowed them to bring up the builds that had to be nerfed because of nades. 

But knowing Anet in their infinite wisdom. They'll just nerf grenades, the last thing keeping multiple engineer builds afloat. Say, "okay problem fixed" and move on. 

For that reason alone, I am against this. 

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