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Please stop the 'nerf <insert current new build>' threads please


TomUjain.8206

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Stop it.

 

As it was pointed out many times before. Instead of rushing to nerf everything you dislike because you are ignorant of the counters or how strong it 'really is' -- I invite you all to play x build of the month and see for yourself what it is all about.

 

We need to stop this witch hunt because it will not end, a new build -- will ALWAYS come and might even replace a new x build with a far worse one. To add, all you are doing is destroying the fun for people who enjoy x class. Naturally its all fine and dandy until they tough your main, isn't it?

 

We need to focus on bringing builds / classes up, not destorying everything because you dislike it.

 

 

Edited by TomUjain.8206
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Bro yes. And those of us who see this need to be as as active on the forums as the nerf this echo chamber. Those of us who play this game had faith that Anet as devs and avid gamers themselves would see that these threads are nonsense. But here we are again another nerf for engineer for like the fourth time in a row when everything was fine. Anet when looking at the feedback from players look in their rating. If the rating is below 1350 or there is no rating at all because they haven't had an active season please discount the feedback an put in an "uninformed category." Move on. Please your going to drive the players here who actually enjoy whats left of this mode away. 

 

I am going to repost something here I wrote from a different thread so its up in front:

This is what happens, people get beat by a class, and they decide it was the class that beat them instead of the person. This is very, very rarely ever the case. Most of the time players are far worse at this game then they think they are. After they loose they go to the forums and complain to have the class they lost too, nerfed. When it reality that person who beat them out played them, and will just switch to a different class and the same result will happen. This is why we have a never ending cycle of nerfs. Because people are failing to understand they are not loosing to the class, they are  loosing to player and no amount of nerfs will change that as something will always be viable at a given time. The issue is the more we nerf the less options we have, which is fundamentally bad for the game. 

For example the Gold Division really has two division within it self. The difference between a Gold 1 Player and a Gold 3 player is massive. I say to showcase that if the gap inside of a single division is great, and we understand that most of the population is in Silver, and we have a match making system that places silver 1-3 in games with Gold 3, everything will feel overpowered every engagement on a pretty insane level anytime a Silver Player ends up  in an engagement with Gold 3 or higher. The silver player ends up thinking "no way I lost that bad, this class is crazy." What's crazy is skill gap between the two. 

Vindi when it post patch and Cata post patch were the only two times in years that real nerfs were required. Vindi had unlimited dodge, and cata had unlimited sustain. Those have been fixed now. 

@Rubi Bayer.8493

Edited by jdawgie.1835
To add one of our devs as a tag to the post. Just o bring awareness to the overall thread.
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26 minutes ago, TomUjain.8206 said:

We need to focus on bringing builds / classes up, not destorying everything because you dislike it.

Because the answer is to keep power creeping the game while ignoring the past 10 years worth of negative effects that power creep has already had on the game.

Edited by Trevor Boyer.6524
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Just now, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Because the answer is to keep power creeping the game while ignoring what 10 years of power creep has already done to the game.

Trev, theres really an over estimate of "power creep" everything keeps getting hammered into the floor. Burst kills should exsist in pvp. You have yourself stated in many threads what people consider "1 shots" are actually combos done with skill.

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Just now, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Because the answer is to keep power creeping the game while ignoring what 10 years of power creep has already done to the game.

 

I never said that, did I? The answer is to what? Destory every unique aspect of a class because people cry about it? power creep can be cut, that is fine -- as long as that is universal across the board. No. The issue is when the core of a class is gutted rendering said class useless.

 

I am fed up of bunny hopping from one class to the next. Finding something I enjoy and ticking the clock until Anet decide to butcher / change / rework or render it useless. It is disorienting and demoralizing.

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Just now, TomUjain.8206 said:

I am fed up of bunny hopping from one class to the next. Finding something I enjoy and ticking the clock until Anet decide to butcher / change / rework or render it useless. It is disorienting and demoralizing.

Im sick to death of this as well. 

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14 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Because the answer is to keep power creeping the game while ignoring what 10 years of power creep has already done to the game.

Sounds good on the surface yeah? Game is powercrept. Solution. Nerf the overperforming stuff? 

Problem solved right?

No. Actually. 

 

A whack-a-mole style balancing system will not address powercreep. All it does is create large disparities between what is strong and what is weak. We've long since passed the days of core. Power levels aren't what they used to be, and if the standard is brought up, and we arbitrarily decide to nerf something down to core power levels because it overperforme for a week, what we get is something worse than power creep. 

We get huge power disparities between classes/ elite specs. 

You get Scourge, Mecha, Renegade existing in the same game as Cata, Vindi, SpB. 

 

It'd be much bettter if we accepted the new power level as the new standard, balanced everyone around that standard so that every class has something going for it. Make it so that everything is at the very least usable so a players skill on their build matters more than whether or not they're the FOTM choice for that week. 

Witch hunts need to stop. We need more classes to get the elementalist treatment. Make the stuff that's been nerfed into the ground actually usable. 

 

 

Edited by Kuma.1503
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3 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Sounds good on the surface yeah? Game is powercrept. Solution. Nerf the overperforming stuff? 

Problem solved right?

No. Actually. 

 

A whack-a-mole style balancing system will not address powercreep. All it does is create large disparities between what is strong and what is weak. We've long since passed the days of core. Power levels aren't what they used to be, and if the standard is brought up, and we arbitrarily decide to nerf something down to core power levels, what we get is something worse than power creep. 

We get huge power disparities between classes/ elite specs. 

You get Scourge, Mecha, Renegade existing in the same game as Cata, Vindi, SpB. 

 

It'd be much bettter if we accepted the new power level as the new standard, balanced everyone around that standard so that every class has something going for it. Make it so that everything is at the very least usable so a players skill on their build matters more than whether or not they're the FOTM choice for that week. 

 

Witch hunts need to stop. We need more classes to get the elementalist treatment. Make the stuff that's been nerfed into the ground actually usable. 

Yes Bro. 100. Great post. You summed up what my feedback was going to be so Ill just support this and leave my original as is. 

Edited by jdawgie.1835
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2 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

It'd be much bettter if we accepted the new power level as the new standard, balanced everyone around that standard so that every class has something going for it. Make it so that everything is at the very least usable so a players skill on their build matters more than whether or not they're the FOTM choice for that week. 

 

Witch hunts need to stop. We need more classes to get the elementalist treatment. Make the stuff that's been nerfed into the ground actually usable. 

 

Couldn't agree more. Thank you. It has come to the point that every 'announced' balance patch scares me, it terrifies me so much it demotivates me to log in and play.

 

How many times has a class shifted from one thing to another? They 'rework' something, only to 'destroy' it a few patches later.

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51 minutes ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

Trev, theres really an over estimate of "power creep" everything keeps getting hammered into the floor. Burst kills should exsist in pvp. You have yourself stated in many threads what people consider "1 shots" are actually combos done with skill.

Nothing is being hammered into the floor. If it isn't incredibly apparent for those who have witnessed the patch progression in this game, things only grow stronger and stronger and stronger. The ratio of nerfs to buffs they toss is like 1-nerf to 4-buffs. Over the course of time, this is true if you go back and read through patch history. This is WHY every class spits every boon almost with 100% uptime even though they aren't using boon duration gear, constant super speed, overly frequent teleports & stealth, and are capable of one-shot bursting even after the mode was given a universal -33% damage.

Have you not played the game very long? Anyone who has been here for 4 or 5 years can 100% testify to the truth that power creep just ends up ruining a game's dynamic. I'm talking the overall feel & flavor of the game, if it works well "like how character dynamic interacts with conquest maps", and if it is even fun.

I feel like I shouldn't have to explain to the forum users here, why power creep is a bad thing, and how it ends up ruining a game's good dynamic in the long run.

49 minutes ago, TomUjain.8206 said:

I never said that, did I? The answer is to what? Destory every unique aspect of a class because people cry about it? power creep can be cut, that is fine -- as long as that is universal across the board. No. The issue is when the core of a class is gutted rendering said class useless.

 

I am fed up of bunny hopping from one class to the next. Finding something I enjoy and ticking the clock until Anet decide to butcher / change / rework or render it useless. It is disorienting and demoralizing.

OK my dude, slow down.

First of all, I didn't say anything about destroying unique aspects of a class. Second of all, I didn't say anything about gutting core classes. What I did, was I tossed a sarcastic remark that what it really meant was "We need to stop power creeping GW2".

Furthermore, it is POWER CREEP that has destroyed the unique aspects of classes/builds, not nerfing. If you were to go back 6 or 8 years or more, and look at how much more unique every class/build was from each other, you see that this is true. Every class had half or less the amount of boons they could generate as they have now, and most classes that "special boons & effects" that only they could do. Balance is easier to achieve when classes have unique irreplaceable factors that only they can do. For example, the DP Daredevil. This class/build has undergone such long periods of severe nerfing but it has always held on to being a top meta because it uniquely has always been the superior decap roamer +, due the fact that it has top mobility & disengage factor. No matter how much you nerf it, if you leave that mobility alone, it will always have a place in the meta. However, when everything gets power crept to the point that everything is as fast as, or nearly as fast as a DP Daredevil, then he loses his unique purpose, and the best decap roamer + simply becomes the class that is the most powerful combat attribute wise, if they all move as fast as the DP Daredevil.

This ^ is exactly where power creep and mobility creep, has landed GW2 competitive balance in 2023. Everything spits every boon with nearly 100% uptime even without using boon duration effects, they all move as fast as or nearly as fast as a DP Daredevil, everyone is throwing about party AoE buffs, everyone has super speed and stealth, everyone is doing everything. THIS is why our metas are so narrow. Because when THIS happens, no class has anything special or unique, which results in the top builds being used just being the builds that do everything the best. THIS IS POWER CREEP. If you keep power creeping the game, it will get worse. Even though in your mind you're imagining that "bringing things up to what is OP will make everything more viable" this has already been proven over the past 10+ years to completely backfire in the end. No matter what happens, when more effects & more boons & more reduced CDs & ect ect keep getting added to every class, it just results in people wanting to play whichever two classes are doing all of that the best.

Now listen to what I'm saying, and rewind back and look at a more traditional setup of classes/builds like when the game first released. We have: Guardian, the only class that can play support. We have Thief, a class that is in its own league of mobility for being a roamer. We have Mesmer, the only thing with weird utility party effects. We have Necromancer, the boon removal boon prevention center. Warrior is mad CC machine for controlling team fights. Nothing is in the same class as Ranger for range attacks, and Ele & Engi were the original jack of all trades usually playing side node duelists. With this old dynamic, you could buff or nerf different things, but it wouldn't bench them out of the play. When they all possess their own niche purpose, it is much easier to balance the game withotu detrimental things happening. But when EVERYTHING DOES EVERYTHING, a simple small damage nerf or buff, will set that class ahead of everything else and it will be the only thing that anyone wants to play, because it is the one class just happens to hit a little bit harder than the others, who otherwise function exactly the same but are hitting weaker.

You have to understand that 6 to 8+ years ago, we had very very distinct & FUN job roles. We had Support - Team Fighter - Roamer - Side Node Duelist, and under those 4 categories where several other subcategories of builds that could be wielded to create very interesting and entertaining different types of team comps to play with. But now, all we have are Supports and these Team Fighter/Roamer/Side Noder hybrids, that all do the same things. <- And that results in an ultra narrow meta, where what ends up being meta is the top support, and the best do it all jack of trade team fighter/roamer/side node hybrid. This is not a point of view, the truth & fact of the matter is reflected in just our previous 3 or 4 MATs. We've been seeing metas where it's just Tempest Support Stacked with Catalysts, or Tempest Support stacked with Catalyst & Scrapper. That's it man. THIS IS POWER CREEP. Because those classes do everything that ever other class does, there is no reason at all in any way shape or form to even bother touching the other classes, because they present nothing unique, due to power creep. And it will only get worse if you keep power creeping the game.

What Arenanet really needs to do, is dial back about 6+ years and DEBUFF EVERYTHING, so that the game has class individuality again. We can keep big damage and all that, but each class needs to have a super unique purpose & playstyle again. And this can only be achieved through a massive god tier nerf to this game. This could be done carefully & wisely so that things still feel hard hitting & fast and all that, but while granting class purpose again,

Power Creep is bad my dude.

47 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

A whack-a-mole style balancing system will not address powercreep. All it does is create large disparities between what is strong and what is weak.

No, the problem can literally be visually viewed in the history of patch notes, as to what led to the problems we have now, and that is way way way too much power creep. This isn't an argument or point of view, this is something that anyone would recognize who has invested a considerable amount of play time into GW2 over the past decade. They just kept power creeping everything, until the game dynamic got all funky and assward.

What needs to stop, is furthering the problem with even more power creep.

Edited by Trevor Boyer.6524
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14 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Have you not played the game very long?

Lol. So if were making this into a thing. I have 100% with out a doubt played the game longer than you. And at a higher level. I've been here since launch. You and I have always been cordial. No need to get rude now. 

14 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Anyone who has been here for 4 or 5 years can 100% testify to the truth that power creep just ends up ruining a game's dynamic.

I am here saying that this is wrong. And I have been here longer than the time frame you are giving. This is rhetoric and incorrect. Whats true is that the base game is not relevant. Powercreep is made up as it used as a way to account for new boons, new skills, and new professions. Of course power is higher. We need to get this game inline with where things are today. Not where things "used to be at core" my dude we are 3 expacs past core days. There were once 9 professions. We have 27 now. We cannot operate as if core is the standard. Because it simply isnt. 

14 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I feel like I shouldn't have to explain to the forum users here, why power creep is a bad thing, and how it ends up ruining a game's good dynamic in the long run.

I feel I shouldnt have to explain to anyone on the forum how the circle jerk of nerfs just spits out the same problem over and over again. But here we are. 

Edited by jdawgie.1835
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8 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

What Arenanet really needs to do, is dial back about 6+ years and DEBUFF EVERYTHING, so that the game has class individuality again.

 

I have been here since beta. I can tell you, back then - things were not as rosy as you think. I agree with you, power creep has been a thing over the years and we can argue its flaws, however - do not think 10+ years ago was any better either. I remember, very vividly massive problems from the old 'turrent engineer' build, the old mine kit (where you could throw down 5 mines at once) -- and the bunkers, where you could tank the entire team on a node -- all day and night long.

 

The old days were riddled with massive problems, and I would argue we are in better place now then we were then.

 

With that said we need some form of stability here. We can't keep yoyoing up and down. Anet buffing (engineer rifle for example) only for it to then be reduced to being worthless again. Or scrapper (which is suffering from an idenity crisis) I was there when it was designed as a 'tank' -- it is now, what? A roamer? A bruiser? Support? I can't quite tell you. When something is established (super speed was always a scrappers thing) and then ripped away, it is highly disorinating for all players involved.

 

I don't know what the answer to power creep is. But I can assure you, randomly buffing and nerfing things (why did they tough gyro?) is going to get us nowhere.

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

Powercreep is made up.

My dude, you can state your opinions & argue with me and everyone else and I will respect it, so long as it is coming from academic factual standpoints that make sense. But pulling the "I'm gonna ignore the obvious and continue to state misinformation card" is just silly man.

Some obvious facts for you about how power crept GW2 is in 2023 that are inarguable:

  1. WvW is ****show of celestial build that can't kill each other.
  2. PvP is full of classes/builds that now move across maps quite seriously twice as fast as they did in year 1-2. The chase potential has been buffed to be roughly twice as strong as disengage potential, which has led to dynamic of spawn camping, where when a losing team undergoes a bad wipe, there no methods to get back to nodes for node play, which is what is resulting in so many super lopsided blowout matches. Before all this power creep, chase vs. disengage was roughly equal, and a losing team could at least attempt to formulate witty rotations to outplay a team that was mechanically stronger. But now? Even Conquest is just a combat mechanical death match now. Strategical rotational play takes a definite backseat to the sheer ability to just win combats now in Conquest.
  3. CM Fractals now are only as difficult as T4 fractals were about 4 or 5 years ago. Raid bosses, die in half or 1/3rd the time that they did 5 years ago. Due to inflated Support play, people literally stand still and ignore mechanics in favor of maintaining DPS because what were intended to be dangerous mechanics, are now considered ignorable.
  4. In years 1-2 or even 3, it required 5 players running meta DPS builds to go into classic dungeons not only for reasonable clear times, but because they were so difficult and the enemies so dangerous, that you needed a full team of actual good experienced players to approach any of realistically at all. In 2023, any mediocre pver can put exotic berserker gear onto a power reaper and go clear those dungeons by themself, in roughly the same amount of time as the year 1 full meta party, and with little to no risk of dying during the solo. This means that DPS wise, a single person in 2023 is shelling out about 4x to 5x the DPS that was capable by a single player upon the first year of launch. And sustain wise, a single player in 2023 is functioning like a year 1 DPS build that had a couple supports following him around.

Conducting your side of the argument with the strong statement that "power creep is not real" is nonsense.

 

Edited by Trevor Boyer.6524
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I will add that I don't think it is the new 'elite' classes fault for this boon / power problem. Anet has always been awful at balancing or fixing problems. Whenever a new 'elite spec' is out -- it is always, always massively overpowered as was demonstrated at the start of each expansion. Throw in the mix that all classes have had a major overhuel / rework of skills and abilities over the last 10 years to the point where the core design of a lot of these 'specs' is now so confused and all over the place.

 

Anet (from beta) has always stated they wanted all classes to be able to do 'everything' and get away from the old style MMO tank / heal / dps methanics of say WOW for example -- but honestly, they have gone so far in the opposite direction I honestly don't think Anet even knows what they are doing, and at this point they are just winging it.

 

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1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Snip

Going to trim this down, because aint nobody got time to read a novel. 

In summary, I understand why you've come to that conclusion. Toning down the next set of outliers is both the intuitive solution and it has a very noticeable and immediate impact on the game mode. 

If power creep is a problem, and you an both see and feel the power of previous overperformers going down, that has to be a good thing. 

 

But due to the reasons I've laid out in previous posts, that is not necessarily the case. Power creep is a problem if, and only if the game does not adapt to account for the jump in power. 

Some (but not all) of those adaptations include:

New maps with new objectives, rewarding different build types and strategies. (Make Stronghold better pls).

Better access to mechanics that punish mindless use of your class's tools. For example, a mechanics that punish mindless boon spamming, punish sustain, or mashing your skills. 

 Clearing up animation clarity so that we can play around each other and understand wtf is happening during the chaos. These things would go a long way towards reducing player frustrations. 

At the end of the day, what kills the game isn't powercreep. It's when one spec is overbearing, and another is cripplingly weak. It's when one class wields a stick, and another wields an AK-47. 

It's a lack of care given to the game mode to help keep things fresh and modern. (Seriously, we need new maps).

Witch hunts make us feel like we're making progress, especially if you're one of the classes wielding the stick, but that progress is an illusion. 

 

Edited by Kuma.1503
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@TomUjain.8206 nah. That "We want every class could do everything" is an pretty old saying. Besides this e-specs are meant to focus on one specific aspect of a class, while core could give a little of everything. So in the end and that Logic every class will be able to do everything cause of the e-specs they get. Means every e-spec will have a Focus on one Thing: heal/supp, dps/supp or Just dps. This will maybe be the case in PvE but for sure not in PvP or WvW cause those Gamemodes Work on other way means different roles and stuff.

Edited by Pati.2438
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2 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

In simplistic terms, if numbers go up because we gain new skills. Mob health should go up to compensate. 

 

I do agree with this. The reason a lot of base content feels so, well - weak is because it hasn't been updated or touched since it was put into motion 10 years ago. Compare that to more 'up to date' PVE content where mobs have more health and do more damage. Only recently we have had a major overhaul of world bosses, which we desperately needed.

 

I will also point out that several amulets (in pvp) have been either removed, or nerfed which has massively reduced sustain (remember the old 'soilder amulet?)

 

@Kuma.1503 is correct though. This nerfing loop has only done more and more damage and has only upset / driven away people, I myself (as I said earlier) now dread balance patches due to how unstable they can be -- in one balance patch Anet can seemingly destroy an entire class (that isn't an understatment either) as they throw out some huuuuuuuge curveballs or even entire skill or trait line reworks -- most of the time making everything worse.

 

We are not asking for more power, we are asking for stability and consistancy. We do not want a build to be one thing for x amount of time, only for it to be something else the next.

 

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25 minutes ago, TomUjain.8206 said:

I have been here since beta. I can tell you, back then - things were not as rosy as you think. I agree with you, power creep has been a thing over the years and we can argue its flaws, however - do not think 10+ years ago was any better either. I remember, very vividly massive problems from the old 'turrent engineer' build, the old mine kit (where you could throw down 5 mines at once) -- and the bunkers, where you could tank the entire team on a node -- all day and night long.

 

The old days were riddled with massive problems, and I would argue we are in better place now then we were then.

Yeah but see, even though you're saying you've been here for 10 years and played the beta, all of what you're saying here is indicating that you weren't very active in the pvp scene to be able to understand a few things. I mean no offense by this, I really don't, but it needs to pointed out to people who insist on conducting feedback in this forum. I only do this because I care about the direction of the game. This goes aaaall back into the idea still discussed today, about the difference in how things playout in higher tiered play vs. middle to lower tier play, where people have l2p issues.

Some facts about what you're describing here, and anyone who was avidly playing in higher tiers back in those days will agree with me:

  1. Turret Engineer was never good. It had the same effect back then that Rifle Mech had recently, where gold 2 players were getting crunch by it due to l2p issues, but in any plat+ games the Rifle Mech couldn't hit anything before getting instantly blown apart. Turret Engineer was the old Rifle Mech. It felt strong if you were playing around G1 and G2 margins, but it was just bad in more competitive play. It was Celestial Rifle Engineer, the old builds that Chaith & Backpack used to use, that were OP as all hell back in those days, and they didn't use turrets outside of supply crate.
  2. Bunkers in those days were not OP. You could certainly claim they were annoying, but they weren't OP. The way job roles worked back then was different, and in my opinion more diverse & balanced actually. Also, anything bunkery had really really really low damage back then. I'm talking negligent damage. Bunker Druids, Bunker Scrappers, they couldn't kill anything unless people were dumb enough to mess around with them for some ridiculously elongated amount of time. People need to judge what is OP based on how hard it can carry games, how much leverage it really has when it is on a team but the other team doesn't have it. <- THIS is how you judge if something is OP. It simply is not accurate to look at something that deals a lot of damage like a DE and say "this is OP" even though he is the reason his team is losing because he can't hold nodes and takes too much damage so he's constantly running. His ultimate contribution to the team is very low compared to other things, and the other team is not missing out on anything because they don't have a DE. In fact the other team is probably better off not having a DE on their team. You can't look at a bunkery thing and say "this is OP because I can't kill it" when his team is losing because he has no DPS to contribute and ends up self surviving to the end of the team fight only to die because he's alone, all the while contributing nothing in the process of that selfish sustain. You may think his sustain is OP but you aren't seeing the bigger picture that he is running a useless build that contributes very little to the dynamic of conquest.
  3. You say it is arguable that we are in a better place now that vanilla GW2 when it was in the ESL? You know what, I'll agree there have been a lot of implementation that I think have bettered the game, but overall intra-class competitive balance and how they interact with conquest map dynamic, is not even close to the good state things were in before 6/23/2015 when they released very specifically the patch that allowed condis to stack, in preparation for the revision of the old trait system into new specialization system, right before the HoT release. It was that 6/23 patch that threw balance into an uproar and they never really figured out how to polish it over before adding more and more content that wasn't balanced upon already existing issues there were never balanced before adding new content. It was on that day, went fine balance went down the tubes and continued to do so in GW2 patching.

I'm sorry if this all sounds abrasive. I don't mean it to be that way. I just feel it's important to point out some things to people whom I can see are serious about discussing this game's balance. I point these things out because a lot of people think they know this game very very very well, but time and time again, I see them failing to recognize certain things.

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16 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I'm sorry if this all sounds abrasive. I don't mean it to be that way. I just feel it's important to point out some things to people whom I can see are serious about discussing this game's balance. I point these things out because a lot of people think they know this game very very very well, but time and time again, I see them failing to recognize certain things.

 

I never claimed to know the game very well, nor am I claiming to be some top tier PVP'er either. I am claiming to have lived through this game and I can tell you from experience what I saw and what I believe. I am not claiming to be a paragon or pro.

 

However. I disagree with you in regards to how 'good' things were back then. Bunkers (atleast upto gold) had alot more sway than you think, annoying -- is putting it mildly, Anet went to war on bunkers, so much so that any trait, amulet or skill with the ability to bunk effectively was removed or heavily reworked.  Make no mistake, back then - it was possible to tank or keep 'busy' the entire team 1 vs 5. No damage? Sure, but useless? Hardly. You could contest the node, indefinatly.

 

The Turrent build was everywhere at one point, I mean everywhere - disregard the 'plat' and above players for a moment -- it was, casually a problematic and difficult build to counter. So much so, A net nuked turrents so hard they have never recovered (TILL THIS DAY!)

 

And don't underestimate how annoying the old engineer mine kit was, back when stability was low - you couldn't see those annoying things and engineers could just spam you with cc (remember old slick shoes?) To add,  even back then - was plenty of cheesy 1 hit kill builds going around -- just less of them.

 

I will add, and I remember this very vividly -- PVE was extreamly slow and clunky back then. I'm not defending how easy raids / PVE is now, but equally I do remember how sluggishly-slow it was to kill a single mob back then.  I do agree, however the 'pace' of PVP is a lot faster now, but honestly the best way to get around that would be to give us more choice of amulets to pick from.

 

Edited by TomUjain.8206
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1 hour ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

Lol. So if were making this into a thing. I have 100% with out a doubt played the game longer than you. And at a higher level. I've been here since launch. You and I have always been cordial. No need to get rude now. 

I am here saying that this is wrong. And I have been here longer than the time frame you are giving. This is rhetoric and incorrect. Whats true is that the base game is not relevant. Powercreep is made up as it used as a way to account for new boons, new skills, and new professions. Of course power is higher. We need to get this game inline with where things are today. Not where things "used to be at core" my dude we are 3 expacs past core days. There were once 9 professions. We have 27 now. We cannot operate as if core is the standard. Because it simply isnt. 

I feel I shouldnt have to explain to anyone on the forum how the circle jerk of nerfs just spits out the same problem over and over again. But here we are. 

Top 100 was about 10 times harder before the titles went from legend to royalty. Even if you pushed into rank 24 to 1, you were not at a higher level at any time. Have some respect for Trevor

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