Rework scepter into a condi (or hybrid) weapon.

[zealex.9410]

The weapon is primarily used by cfb and cwillbender because its one of the better non espec options for burning procs (emphasis on non espec). Cwilly will use it because it doesnt have an espec mainhand and even then using gs is a very good option as well. 

For firebrand who has a mainhand that's a condi weapon the deal is more complicated. Scepter up until now was worth swapping too assuming you can cover with tome 1 and channels alot of the weaponswap's cd, however with the buff to bleed from axe fb is much more likely to just camp axe which removes alot of what makes fb fun for the firebrand players.

Scepter desperately needs the love and theres a niche for core guardian that it could fill which is that of the condition mainhand, this would also ensure that fb will always feel good using it (its also an opportunity to rework its aa and its sfx). It would also give some extra flair to cwillbender. Consider reworking this weapon please.

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by zealex.9410

[Kulvar.1239]

If that lead to that horrendous auto-attack sound effect to be changed, I'll support this.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

I disagree that scepter should be reworked into a condi weapon. Core guardians only have two ranged weapons, and no one is going to take staff for DPS. Scepter just needs a condi DPS rider on a skill or two, so it can be practical with condi builds as well as power builds.

[zealex.9410]

11 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I disagree that scepter should be reworked into a condi weapon. Core guardians only have two ranged weapons, and no one is going to take staff for DPS. Scepter just needs a condi DPS rider on a skill or two, so it can be practical with condi builds as well as power builds.

Making it a hybrid weapon akin to ranger axe would also work.

[Sifu.9745]

16 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I disagree that scepter should be reworked into a condi weapon. Core guardians only have two ranged weapons, and no one is going to take staff for DPS. Scepter just needs a condi DPS rider on a skill or two, so it can be practical with condi builds as well as power builds.

Who cares about core Guardians? Staff dps is not that bad, if you insist that core Guardian really needs more than one ranged (Power) weapon. Anyway core Guardian can also play a condi role btw.

Condition Scepter seems a good idea.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Sifu.9745

[Ezrael.6859]

Changing Scepter into a decent condi or hybrid weapon would be so sensible, something similar to Mesmer, Necro or Ele Scepter.

3 hit chain, instant hit, 1/2 - 1/2 - 3/4 cast time, no more projectile, something like:

1. 80 damage + 1s Burn 
2. 80 damage + 1s Burn
3. 120 damage + 2s Burn & 2s Cripple

 

[draxynnic.3719]

Scepter is primarily used by any guardian that wants to do damage at range that isn't a dragonhunter. Because that's the option available. It's all power on paper, but like sword mainhand, it's really a hybrid through the power of multiple justice procs.

Redesigning it into a condi weapon would be a nasty hit to any non-DH power build that doesn't want to be pure melee, as well as making DH overly reliant on longbow.

I vote no.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

3 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Scepter is primarily used by any guardian that wants to do damage at range that isn't a dragonhunter. Because that's the option available. It's all power on paper, but like sword mainhand, it's really a hybrid through the power of multiple justice procs.

Redesigning it into a condi weapon would be a nasty hit to any non-DH power build that doesn't want to be pure melee, as well as making DH overly reliant on longbow.

I vote no.

Yeah those 1s burn procs are going to hit so hard now too! /s

This is not slam against your statement. I mostly agree (and said so above), except the only ranged option for condi builds is already underwhelming, and the upcoming nerf is so universal it even punishes underperforming fb options. 

[Ultimaistanza.4793]

2 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Scepter is primarily used by any guardian that wants to do damage at range that isn't a dragonhunter. Because that's the option available. It's all power on paper, but like sword mainhand, it's really a hybrid through the power of multiple justice procs.

Redesigning it into a condi weapon would be a nasty hit to any non-DH power build that doesn't want to be pure melee, as well as making DH overly reliant on longbow.

I vote no.

 

To me, it feels like relying on only Justice procs is just not sensible enough to make it a true hybrid weapon (especially with the proposed upcoming nerfs). If you're condi, it pushes you into a corner where if you actually activate your class mechanics and have it on cooldown while you're using range, then your ability to apply offensive condis with either scepter or staff (with the exception of sigils/runes/ect) are nullified. This effectively makes any type of condi build on Guard and it's Elite specs feel janky and creates this reliance on damage utilities to fill the gap for damage in fights where you don't have the option to consistently melee. Back until a few years ago you at least had the option to trait into Symbolic Power and be able to turn scepter and staff into a somewhat hybrid weapons with the chance of burning with symbols, but that was removed. 

 

I feel like if they were to turn it into a hybrid weapon (like FB axe), then that could preserve it's purpose for power builds while offering condi builds more flexibility in rotations/playstyles. Plus it would give Anet more wiggle room to actually tackle some of the more overperforming condi skills without it absolutely tanking damage during range, and potentially allow for more build experimentation for condi outside of being stuck in Virtues for things like Permeating Wrath and Concencrations.

[zealex.9410]

8 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Scepter is primarily used by any guardian that wants to do damage at range that isn't a dragonhunter. Because that's the option available. It's all power on paper, but like sword mainhand, it's really a hybrid through the power of multiple justice procs.

Redesigning it into a condi weapon would be a nasty hit to any non-DH power build that doesn't want to be pure melee, as well as making DH overly reliant on longbow.

I vote no.

Its pretty underwhelming for fb but for cwilly who wants multihits its nice. Making it at the very least a hybrid weapon would help the weapon majorly in pve while retaining alot of its value in competitive.

Edited April 25, 2023 by zealex.9410

[draxynnic.3719]

4 hours ago, Ultimaistanza.4793 said:

 

To me, it feels like relying on only Justice procs is just not sensible enough to make it a true hybrid weapon (especially with the proposed upcoming nerfs). If you're condi, it pushes you into a corner where if you actually activate your class mechanics and have it on cooldown while you're using range, then your ability to apply offensive condis with either scepter or staff (with the exception of sigils/runes/ect) are nullified. This effectively makes any type of condi build on Guard and it's Elite specs feel janky and creates this reliance on damage utilities to fill the gap for damage in fights where you don't have the option to consistently melee. Back until a few years ago you at least had the option to trait into Symbolic Power and be able to turn scepter and staff into a somewhat hybrid weapons with the chance of burning with symbols, but that was removed. 

 

I feel like if they were to turn it into a hybrid weapon (like FB axe), then that could preserve it's purpose for power builds while offering condi builds more flexibility in rotations/playstyles. Plus it would give Anet more wiggle room to actually tackle some of the more overperforming condi skills without it absolutely tanking damage during range, and potentially allow for more build experimentation for condi outside of being stuck in Virtues for things like Permeating Wrath and Concencrations.

That really only applies to core guardian and DH, though, and the idea of those is that active use in the right situation generates a similar amount of burning anyway. If you're running condi firebrand, you're likely running the trait that allows you to keep the passive (although reducing the value of those passive procs will hurt that and is probably an inelegant method of nerfing firebrand damage). Condi willbender needs to use the virtue actively to get procs.

I'm not convinced that placing condis on scepter is going to make Virtues any less desirable for condi builds.

I am concerned that putting some of scepter's power budget into conditions will result in power builds being worse off - and despite the dominance of cfb lately, guardian has always been designed as a primarily power-based profession. You commented about burning symbols, but keep in mind that the scepter symbol generates more impacts than other symbols and therefore charges the Justice passive faster.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

31 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

That really only applies to core guardian and DH, though, and the idea of those is that active use in the right situation generates a similar amount of burning anyway. If you're running condi firebrand, you're likely running the trait that allows you to keep the passive (although reducing the value of those passive procs will hurt that and is probably an inelegant method of nerfing firebrand damage). Condi willbender needs to use the virtue actively to get procs.

I'm not convinced that placing condis on scepter is going to make Virtues any less desirable for condi builds.

I am concerned that putting some of scepter's power budget into conditions will result in power builds being worse off - and despite the dominance of cfb lately, guardian has always been designed as a primarily power-based profession. You commented about burning symbols, but keep in mind that the scepter symbol generates more impacts than other symbols and therefore charges the Justice passive faster.

You say this but scepter already isn't used for power builds in PvE, sword, focus and greatsword are used for those. Scepter isn't good for anything but justice procs in condi dps builds right now already. 

[Venres.1603]

14 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Yeah those 1s burn procs are going to hit so hard now too! /s

This is not slam against your statement. I mostly agree (and said so above), except the only ranged option for condi builds is already underwhelming, and the upcoming nerf is so universal it even punishes underperforming fb options. 

Core guardian already does on par DMG to condi firebrands in fractals. I've seen good core condi guards doing he same DPS as scourges on 100 CM.

 

A 2nd condi weapon and ranged would be quite busted.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

5 hours ago, Venres.1603 said:

Core guardian already does on par DMG to condi firebrands in fractals. I've seen good core condi guards doing he same DPS as scourges on 100 CM.

 

A 2nd condi weapon and ranged would be quite busted.

A 2nd ranged condi weapon ? What is the first? 

[Venres.1603]

1 hour ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

A 2nd ranged condi weapon ? What is the first? 

Maybe learn to read, I said "a 2nd condi weapon" and then, as separate point: "AND ranged"

[Gaiawolf.8261]

We're still looking for a 1st weapon for ranged condi builds. So far, nothing fulfills this concept across the entire class, and especially for FB after the nerf.  I think you missed the point. 

[Venres.1603]

13 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

We're still looking for a 1st weapon for ranged condi builds. So far, nothing fulfills this concept across the entire class, and especially for FB after the nerf.  I think you missed the point. 

Neither core nor firebrand need a ranged condi weapon because they already work well enough without and FB got the axe as it's main condi weapon.

[draxynnic.3719]

On 4/26/2023 at 10:05 AM, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

You say this but scepter already isn't used for power builds in PvE, sword, focus and greatsword are used for those. Scepter isn't good for anything but justice procs in condi dps builds right now already. 

Because most builds on the build sites assume that you can remain in melee all of the time, and if that is the case, having sword/focus and greatsword slightly edges out running scepter/focus and greatsword... as it should, or you'd have a ranged weapon that is outperforming a melee weapon even at melee ranges. The difference is small enough, however, that taking sceptre wins out pretty quickly if there are any phases that force you out of melee for long enough for it to be worth swapping weapons.

You shouldn't make arguments based on copying the current meta PvE builds without knowing how they might be adjusted for circumstances... and how they've been adjusted over time. Wasn't too long ago that scepter/focus actually outperformed sword/focus even in melee. They buffed sword because it was obviously underperforming by comparison in order for this to be true, and I think they nerfed sceptre a little as well, but sceptre is still a good option for power builds whenever you're not expecting to be exclusively melee. Zerg WvW power builds, for instance, typically run sceptre as a ranged option (and power dragonhunter might even run sceptre/focus and longbow, doubling down on range).

Edited April 27, 2023 by draxynnic.3719

[Gaiawolf.8261]

11 hours ago, Venres.1603 said:

Neither core nor firebrand need a ranged condi weapon because they already work well enough without and FB got the axe as it's main condi weapon.

Not everyone likes axe. Some of us hate it. Greater build and weapon diversity generally allow players to build a character they like. 

Ranged smiting and burning fit my character concept a whole lot better than any melee weapon anyway. There just isn't a viable weapon for it. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Gaiawolf.8261

[Kuya.6495]

I'd settle for some condi damage on scepter 3 at least. Some burn stacks perhaps. I believe there are burn stacks on longbow despite dh being mainly a strike damage spec.

[Twilightmage.8309]

I just wanted to say i kind of like having scepter as an option on DH if I feel like double ranged weapon. I wouldn't mind condi riders on it though. Please change the 1 projectile and sound though its so weird and silly.

[Mimterest.4639]

On 4/22/2023 at 7:48 PM, Kulvar.1239 said:

If that lead to that horrendous auto-attack sound effect to be changed, I'll support this.

What, what's wrong with ZHWENG ZHWENG ZHWENG ZHWENG ZHWENG ZHWENG ZHWENG ZHWENG ZHWENG ZHWENG ZHWENG? xD

[Gaiawolf.8261]

38 minutes ago, Mimterest.4639 said:

What, what's wrong with ZHWENG ZHWENG ZHWENG ZHWENG ZHWENG ZHWENG ZHWENG ZHWENG ZHWENG ZHWENG ZHWENG? xD

You sure? I thought it was SHOE! SHOE! SHOE! SHOE! SHOE! SHOE! SHOE! SHOE!

Or with quickness, SHOE!SHOE!SHOESHOE!SHOE!SHOE!SHOE!SHOE!! 🙃

[Saiyan.1704]

Scepter may never have a bleed condi on the auto attack but removing the scepter sound effects will remove bleeding from my ears. In a way it'll be a buff.

[otto.5684]

On 4/24/2023 at 4:10 AM, zealex.9410 said:

Making it a hybrid weapon akin to ranger axe would also work.

If they do, they will have to nerf VoJ and possibly some condi traits. I would rather they just rework scepter AA. And most importantly they need to rework AA noise.

Edited May 20, 2023 by otto.5684