Black Lion Keys

[Blude.6812]

LOOT BOX Gambling!!! Needs some legislation!

🤣

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

OP is not lamenting gambling, but the included guaranteed item. 

[Vayne.8563]

Ah a person who doesn't like minis and doesn't care about them complaining about the guaranteed drop. Well, that's why it rotates. Some people like minis, some people don't. So sometimes it will have one and sometimes it will have the other. That way the game attacts more people buying chests over time.

If you don't spend more money this time, because you personally don't like minis, I'll be twice as many keys. And when they have something you like, maybe I won't buy any.

I'm guessing Anet has metrics on this, and they know how many chests sell when there are minis in them and how many sells when there aren't.  I don't think they're just going to take your word for it.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Vayne.8563
wrong word

[Shadowmoon.7986]

To be honest, the fact that someone is confused that the mini is a guaranteed item really makes me wonder if they have enough informed consent to be allowed to spend real money on loot boxes.

[Astralporing.1957]

13 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

OP is not lamenting gambling, but the included guaranteed item. 

They're lamenting that drop is not gambling from what i can see. Which is not really something i can support.

[Funky.4861]

I agree with the OP.

If there's something i really want that's account-bound from the bl chest then i have to suck it up that i'll get stuff i don't want until it drops or i limit my spending. If there's something i want from a bl chest that i can buy from tp, i'll buy from tp instead to avoid wasting keys. The guaranteed item can be sold though, so it's not a total loss.

Would i prefer to exchange the guaranteed item for some kind of token to cash-in for a future item? Yes, i think that's a great idea. If said token could be placed on tp for others to buy, that would also be a bonus.

[Danikat.8537]

I still don't see why this specific item is a problem. You're always going to get a bunch of stuff you don't want from black lion chests because each chest drops 4-5 items. 1 of those is always a statuette and 1 is the other guarenteed item (in this case the mini skimmer), 2 will be common items like dye kits and crafting bags. It's only the 5th item (which isn't guarented to appear at all) which will be an uncommon, rare or super-rare item, the ones most players want from chests. Even then there's no guarentee it'll be one you want.

So I completely understand objecting to the fact that you'll almost certainly get a bunch of stuff you don't want before or as well as the one/s you do want. Even if you get lucky and get the drop you want on the 1st try you'll still have 4 other items as well.

But I don't understand why this specific item is a problem if, apparently, all the rest aren't. Especially since they're tradable. If you don't want or need it then it's free silver. Sell it at the same time you're clearing out the other drops and the problem is solved.
 

1 hour ago, Funky.4861 said:

I agree with the OP.

If there's something i really want that's account-bound from the bl chest then i have to suck it up that i'll get stuff i don't want until it drops or i limit my spending. If there's something i want from a bl chest that i can buy from tp, i'll buy from tp instead to avoid wasting keys. The guaranteed item can be sold though, so it's not a total loss.

Would i prefer to exchange the guaranteed item for some kind of token to cash-in for a future item? Yes, i think that's a great idea. If said token could be placed on tp for others to buy, that would also be a bonus.

What you're describing is exactly how the black lion statuettes (the other guarenteed item) work.

[Astralporing.1957]

38 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I still don't see why this specific item is a problem. You're always going to get a bunch of stuff you don't want from black lion chests because each chest drops 4-5 items. 1 of those is always a statuette and 1 is the other guarenteed item (in this case the mini skimmer), 2 will be common items like dye kits and crafting bags. It's only the 5th item (which isn't guarented to appear at all) which will be an uncommon, rare or super-rare item, the ones most players want from chests. Even then there's no guarentee it'll be one you want.

You can get an uncommon (or better) drop in one of two base random slots too. The additional (uncommon or better) 5th slot is a separate random check. But yes, most of the time what you will get will be complete trash. That's the whole point of lootboxes after all - having you shell out money for stuff you would not have bought otherwise. So, basically, if one does not like getting something completely useless for them, they should not be buying keys at all.

 

 

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

On 4/28/2023 at 11:24 AM, Flagello.2374 said:

The question arises spontaneously:
If I have to pay with real money to buy the Gems, and then buy black lion keys, then why do I have to keep having the same minipet as a gift if I don't care?
Remove the minipets from the reward keys and enter a seller where each of us can go and buy 1, 10, 10,000 minipets for gold and collect them all. Thank you.

 

I'm not a collector but a player and if I buy keys I don't want items from a collection that means nothing to me. it's a stretch, for you another player who doesn't buy keys.

 

Flagello

Let's replace this with the real question here: why do you buy keys for lootboxes when there's a guaranteed item in there you don't want?

[Zebulous.2934]

During holiday events the guaranteed drop is just a holiday loot bag that mostly has the same stuff as the loot bags you get for participating in that event anyway.

Another guaranteed drop is a random bag of food designed to buff WvW combat. 

Another guaranteed drop is a bottle of reward track exp for WvW and PvE mastery. 

And don't forget those Black Lion dye canisters! Many of us already have all of the non premium dyes.

A mini that you can mystic forge into other colors isn't any worse than any of those rewards.

I do think I remember a few runs of  Black Lion chests that simply had a 2nd statuett as the additional guaranteed drop.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Zebulous.2934

[DarcShriek.5829]

The strongest critique you can anet regarding BLC keys is to not buy them.  I would never pay cash for them.  However sometimes I do take the time to earn some because I enjoy using them. 

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

I do think I remember a few runs of  Black Lion chests that simply had a 2nd statuett as the additional guaranteed drop.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest/historical#Holographic_Koi

[Chichimec.9364]

1 hour ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

...I do think I remember a few runs of  Black Lion chests that simply had a 2nd statuett as the additional guaranteed drop.

Actually, that's a guaranteed item I like. Those statuettes come in handy for buying a variety of things I find useful on a regular basis.

[KerryTT.4792]

Figure I will add my 2 cents. I use money to buy gems to get Black Lion keys every year. For me, it's how I give something back to the company. ( I also used to start a new character every week, going into the story far enough to get 2 keys, and doing 2 map completions to possible get 2 more. Stopped that last year, still have HMS Getkey LiV sitting around). Oh, and also will exchange gold for gems....

And I fully agree that buying keys to get an item in a chest is not optimal. I use 25 keys each time a new chest comes out. I am not expecting anything and am happy with what I get. (OK, spent a few more when the WvW, PvP potion was included). If you are still reading, currently have 1,473 Black Lion Statuettes (need the occasional Black Lion salvage kit), 33 Black Lion Claim Tickets (last used 2 to get Koi weapons, since I was lucky enough to get the Koi backpack) and 127 Black Lion Minature Claim Tickets. 

So, yeah, I may be the one throwing the math off.

[Holmindeboks.3490]

On 4/28/2023 at 10:57 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

If you don't like what you're getting then don't buy/open it, not sure what's problematic here.

The problem (in my opinion) is the addictive players that defend this greedy (practice) that they like the game is oke, but not everyone have to accept this rng fest. I also asked before that if they put items in store for a decent low price i had spend much more on gems. My money is not to gamble away. I want to know what i get for my money. But people addicted to gamble just get abused. Thats a lot of money from ppl without self control. (I dont meant the ppl that want to support the game) many ppl lose big money and sometimes without getting the item they want. Once read here someone gambled away 135 usd and didnt het the phoenix torch. And some others het the item within a few keys to then show off what they got. And so others gonna try also. I once gambled away my 400 gems gift from achievement points. It did hurt when i was thinking about it. When i cared about the game. 
 

 

and ofc the losers are gonna spam confused and cry emotions. Nothing new here. Sad people. 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Holmindeboks.3490

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Holmindeboks.3490 said:

The problem (in my opinion) is the addictive players that defend this greedy (practise) that they like the game is oke, but not everyone have to accept this rng fest. I also asked before that if they put items in store for a decent low price i had spend much more on gems. My money is not to gamble away. I want to know what i get for my money. But people addicted to gamble just get used.

So since I said it's not a problem, I guess you see this as "defending this greedy practice" and as such... you're trying to say I'm one of "those people"? Because if so then that's just wrong.

1 minute ago, Holmindeboks.3490 said:

Thats a lot of money from ppl without self control. (I dont meant the ppl that want to support the game) many ppl lose big money and sometimes without getting the item they want.

But OP is complaining about the non-rng part of the chests (in this case, the guaranteed mini)? So how is your comment addressing what's said in this thread?

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I think I tried keys way back at the start of the game, and for everything I've wanted since then I've run story, completed maps, farmed reward tracks or otherwise found another way to get the statuettes ever since they were introduced. It seems like alot of work but the grind is actually lower than some other prestige items.

 

It would be nice if we had more ways to earn these items though. A few years ago the gemstore consisted of 20% of all available items, which is pretty fair, but recently its risen to 30%+. The rewards you can get in-game aren't keeping up with the same release frequency or quality and its starting to really show the difference between players who can pay for things and those who can only play the game to earn them.

The Black Lion Chest Exclusives are perhaps the worst offender here.

Edited May 3, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Holmindeboks.3490]

58 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So since I said it's not a problem, I guess you see this as "defending this greedy practice" and as such... you're trying to say I'm one of "those people"? Because if so then that's just wrong.

But OP is complaining about the non-rng part of the chests (in this case, the guaranteed mini)? So how is your comment addressing what's said in this thread?

By adding a guaranteed (worthless) item to the black lion chest is a smaller chance for an item you aiming for. Because it waste 1 slot. I don’t think i have to explain more. And no i don’t say anything to anyone. 
 

but as i said. Ppl like to bash on others. Have seen it before. I asked something nice but everyone who obtained it dont want others have nice things. Ppl here never imagine others situation. The only thing that they care is about their own. Called egoists. I asked for legendary armor for ppl that dont raid or pvp or wvw. But an open world version. But thats too much asked. The addicted players got it by swearing raids. But we have raids since 2015. Would be nice to make it easyer for more things. But all the selfish ppl say is “you dont need legendary armor” someone just want to have nice things. Like all other skins in game. No you dont need it. But like it to have. Someone else cant decide that for you/me. 
 

ohw and the part about what you said. If everyone keep saying that or defending it. Then nothing will change. I think most ppl think that a guaranteed worthless item and a wasting slot is unfair. 

[Sobx.1758]

12 minutes ago, Holmindeboks.3490 said:

By adding a guaranteed (worthless) item to the black lion chest is a smaller chance for an item you aiming for. Because it waste 1 slot. I don’t think i have to explain more.

It's not, because it's not somehow made to give "x random items unless there's a guaranteed one taking space". It's made to give "x random items", "x guaranteed ones" and "maybe a bonus one".
The alternative to "guaranteed +rng" isn't somehow automatically "more rng slots instead", it's "rng items without a guaranteed ones". I don't know how you came up with an idea that anet would give you more random loot by removing the guaranteed ones, but that seems like baseless wishful thinking.

12 minutes ago, Holmindeboks.3490 said:

And no i don’t say anything to anyone. 

Then I don't understand who that was directed at, you clearly described some specific group of people there and posted it in a response to me saying "I don't see what's problematic here", but ok, thank you for clarification.

 

Spoiler

12 minutes ago, Holmindeboks.3490 said:

but as i said. Ppl like to bash on others. Have seen it before. I asked something nice but everyone who obtained it dont want others have nice things. Ppl here never imagine others situation. The only thing that they care is about their own. Called egoists. I asked for legendary armor for ppl that dont raid or pvp or wvw. But an open world version. But thats too much asked. The addicted players got it by swearing raids. But we have raids since 2015. Would be nice to make it easyer for more things. But all the selfish ppl say is “you dont need legendary armor” someone just want to have nice things. Like all other skins in game. No you dont need it. But like it to have. Someone else cant decide that for you/me.

All of this is offtopic, not addressing anything about what I wrote or the thread itself. I don't see the relevance at all, so I'll just skip on this part.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Holmindeboks.3490]

Good. I dont continue in the discussion. Have a nice day 😃

[Sobx.1758]

Ok, you too 🙂

[Ashen.2907]

4 hours ago, Holmindeboks.3490 said:

By adding a guaranteed (worthless) item to the black lion chest is a smaller chance for an item you aiming for. Because it waste 1 slot. I don’t think i have to explain more. And no i don’t say anything to anyone. 
 

but as i said. Ppl like to bash on others. Have seen it before. I asked something nice but everyone who obtained it dont want others have nice things. Ppl here never imagine others situation. The only thing that they care is about their own. Called egoists. I asked for legendary armor for ppl that dont raid or pvp or wvw. But an open world version. But thats too much asked. The addicted players got it by swearing raids. But we have raids since 2015. Would be nice to make it easyer for more things. But all the selfish ppl say is “you dont need legendary armor” someone just want to have nice things. Like all other skins in game. No you dont need it. But like it to have. Someone else cant decide that for you/me. 
 

ohw and the part about what you said. If everyone keep saying that or defending it. Then nothing will change. I think most ppl think that a guaranteed worthless item and a wasting slot is unfair. 

The comment that you get to decide or define what other people like (as stated near the beginning of your post) but that others dont get to decide what you like (as stated near the end of your post) is interesting.

If, "most ppl," think that the guaranteed item plus, "wasted slot," is unfair then most people are objectively wrong. By definition if they are choosing to buy/use keys knowing in advance what is included, then they are receiving what they chose to pay for. This is fair.

Of course being fair does not mean that one has to like it. I despise paid loot box systems such as this, but that does not mean the are unfair.

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Ashen.2907

[leila.7962]

On 4/28/2023 at 6:24 AM, Flagello.2374 said:

The question arises spontaneously:
If I have to pay with real money to buy the Gems, and then buy black lion keys, then why do I have to keep having the same minipet as a gift if I don't care?
 

I think about that regarding:

• all the transmutation stones (over 2500 charges) that I don't have an use for because of the legendary stuff not requiring them
• all 161 the self-style kits that I won't use (who the hell would change appearance that much?)
• all the mini tickets that are just there piling up
• all the upgrade extractors that I also have no use for (cause most runes and sigils are not worth kitten anymore)
• not to mention all the dye kits that when you open give you a 50 silver or less dye most of the times.. 

🤡 Imo, they should allow you to trade the stuff you dont want for Black Lion Statuettes so at least at some point you can actually get something you want.

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by leila.7962

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

1 hour ago, leila.7962 said:

I think about that regarding:

• all the transmutation stones (over 2500 charges) that I don't have an use for because of the legendary stuff not requiring them
• all 161 the self-style kits that I won't use (who the hell would change appearance that much?)
• all the mini tickets that are just there piling up
• all the upgrade extractors that I also have no use for (cause most runes and sigils are not worth kitten anymore)
• not to mention all the dye kits that when you open give you a 50 silver or less dye most of the times.. 

🤡 Imo, they should allow you to trade the stuff you dont want for Black Lion Statuettes so at least at some point you can actually get something you want.

 

Are any of those things part of the 'guaranteed first 2 slots'? 

[leila.7962]

8 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Are any of those things part of the 'guaranteed first 2 slots'? 

No but still, they could let you trade for the statuettes, so you could trade things you won't have an use (such as transmutation charges, rez orbs, etc.) for things you would actually use.. it's not like they are free anyway. If the purpose of the BLK is to increase their revenue by selling something that people would see value on it and buy it repeatedly or from time to time, it's doing a very poor job, considering that the majority of the player base is divided in 3 very distincts groups and the most common drops don't suit all 3 game modes. Why would WvW people want rez orbs or more transmutation charges? Not to mention the T5 mat bags.. or these minis like the OP was talking about. I'm sure a lot of people would be happier trading the fugly mini for 1 statuette.

By allowing people to trade things that they may get but that don't suit their particular gameplay style could also improve sales, because then people wouldn't feel cheated (like a lot people feel), about the BLC. Not to mention that the 2nd guaranteed item also disencourage people from buying BLK depending on the BLC rotation.. during Halloween, for example, your 2nd guaranteed item is a slightly different ToT bag... 

Edited May 4, 2023 by leila.7962