Beyond the base-game blues

[Sethias.4279]

I'm not sure what my question is here really, more just a' reaching out' and a 'wondering as to why my experience is the way it is'. I'll probably just encounter a fair bit of flaming, and maybe justifiably so, and that'll be the end of that, but here goes, living in hope, etc, etc ...

I've leveled a few characters now in GW2 and I really enjoy the base game. I gear them up and then off I go to one of the expansions and then start to totally dislike the game. I'm not sure why, complexity, difficulty, strange progression in the max-level content.. something is just off for me and I can't put my finger on it. Maybe I'm just not a very good player and the ramp-up in difficulty is just too extreme, that's a distinct possibility. Strangely though I don't experience that in other mmos. Maybe the game just isn't for me, another distinct possibility as we all like different things.

As I say, I'm not entirely sure what or why I'm asking. Just wondering if anyone else experiences, or has experienced, this, and was there a moment where you suddenly overcame it?

[jason.1083]

I can think of a few things that might give you that feeling, the first one that come to mind is what you already mentioned, the game does really ramp up in difficulty kind of a lot in the expansion zones, if you watch reaction or gameplay vids on YouTube of the game basically everyone expiriences it. You basically go from a mid paced combat with reasonable enemies to a very faced paced combat style with most enemies having the damage potential to kill you in a handful hits if not less. So I understand that it needs quite a bit of getting used to. 

When it comes to complexity, well, yes and no. A lot of things are added to the game but luckily most of them work similarly to the core game. The differences are mostly that hero challenges now give 10 hero points instead of 1 with the excuse of usually being much more difficult. Training your Elite Specializations has a universal track for both the skills and the traits instead of two. And lastly, the one that most people get stuck with are the mastery system, it's not very well explained and it is actually pretty complicated compared to a normal leveling system. If that's something troubling you just say it and I'll do my best to explain, no reason to go through the trouble if that's not the issue. 

Overall try to at least get full exotic gear and a build that is serviceable, it doesn't have to be a pre-made build, you can just make your own, just make sure it actually makes sense and buffs the skills you use. Try to avoid getting into situations that spell death if you're alone, you can always ask for help in map chat if that's a hero challenge or something like that. And really don't feel discouraged, most people had a shakedown when they first tried out the expansions, it's just how they game is, it doesn't mean you're worst than anyone else. 

[Lorendyl Azoradaelas.5203]

You need to join a "train" in LFG for hero points and events.  For story bosses you need clutch dodging skills or a high sustain build.

[Gerry.7964]

If you're going through Heart of Thorns right after hitting level 80 then it's understandable you're struggling. I would first look up some open world builds for the class you're playing and then work on unlocking an elite spec. HoT was designed more for grouping so the hero points are difficult to solo. The HPs in the other two expansions are much easier to solo. An option is to unlock an elite spec quickly via the other expansions and then return to HoT. 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

You don't need to be a good player to achieve 50% of your maximum damage, you just need the right gear and build, and you'll destroy anything in open-world no matter what buttons you press.

 

If your build is inefficient then you likely won't enjoy the expansions because you're always busy fighting enemies. With the proper build you'll wipe them out in seconds, and with a bit of skill to go with it you can solo group events and everything, which drastically lowers the stress factor.

 

Unlike other games, the expansions here are considered end-game content.

Edited April 29, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Khisanth.2948]

7 hours ago, Sethias.4279 said:

I gear them up and then off I go to one of the expansions and then start to totally dislike the game.

Having the right gear is important but gear in GW2 is also not the be-all and end-all that it is in some games.

7 hours ago, Sethias.4279 said:

strange progression in the max-level content

It is the most natural form of progression. You make progress by becoming better rather than just grinding for gear with bigger numbers. The only thing strange about it is that it is in direct conflict with the game's claims about being casual.

7 hours ago, Sethias.4279 said:

Maybe the game just isn't for me, another distinct possibility as we all like different things.

The game expects you to observe, analyze and react. Know what you skills do and adjust according. If those are not things you want to do it is probably not for you. Although to be honest I usually take the lazier route of finding someone else to do the content with instead. Same result with a tiny fraction of the effort required.

Those things aren't absolute requirements. Some people are perfectly fine with implementing whatever strategy is available for getting to their goals be that completing content or acquiring items but if you are in this second group then you probably wouldn't have made this post in the first place. It would be a "how do I do/get X most efficiently?" type post instead.

 

4 hours ago, jason.1083 said:

The differences are mostly that hero challenges now give 10 hero points instead of 1 with the excuse of usually being much more difficult.

This is the complete opposite of reality. They are usually easy with a few that are challenging and you only need 25 out of the 40 HPs available in HoT to fully unlock an elite spec. That is a lot of wiggle room.

PoF has the easiest ones while EoD raises it back slightly by having elite mobs at some of them. Although many of those are communes so at least some classes can simply sneak their way through.

[jason.1083]

2 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

This is the complete opposite of reality. They are usually easy with a few that are challenging and you only need 25 out of the 40 HPs available in HoT to fully unlock an elite spec. That is a lot of wiggle room.

I'm comparing them to the core hero challenges, which are brainless easy, and also a new player that doesn't even have a full set of exotic gear proabably will struggle a bit more with them.

[EphemeralWallaby.7643]

Not sure if relating one of my experiences will help, but maybe it will...

When PoF first came out I really didn't like it.  I started the story, and it didn't make much sense to me at the time, the maps felt wrong as I was navigating them, and I just felt generally intimidated and overwhelmed by it.  I think part of it was also my roommate pushing me to have us both unlock the first four mounts so I was jumping around areas and didn't understand the enemies I was fighting.

I then wound up taking a break from the game, mostly because I found it interfering too much with my RL.

I came back a couple months ago, and when I looked at the PoF maps I found myself once again dreading it.

My solution, oddly enough, was to start exploring the maps... I ignored the story content, and wandered around and did some casual map completion and found it very enjoyable (if challenging at some points)...  and, once I finished exploring the first 4 maps of the crystal desert, I then started the story and found I was enjoying it too.

I just got my gryphon (something I'm so very happy about), I'm working my way through LW4, and i'm hoping to start Icebrood Saga in the next month or two... which again, I'll probably focus on map exploration before jumping into story elements where I can.

 

~EpWa

Edited April 29, 2023 by EphemeralWallaby.7643

[Buran.3796]

On 4/29/2023 at 1:06 PM, Sethias.4279 said:

As I say, I'm not entirely sure what or why I'm asking. Just wondering if anyone else experiences, or has experienced, this, and was there a moment where you suddenly overcame it?

   Expansions are in general harder than the regular game (specially HoT), although the power creep you get from the specs is huge and that combined with some nerfs to the maps after the release makes the game easier once you known what and how to play. Some key factors:

* You need to focus in map exploration and unlocking masteries ASAP, since they hugely improve the navigation and qol.

* Equaly, you should unlock mounts ASAP. This happens organically, as the maps provide them in ther order that is needed.

* When you reach 80, if you've been exploring the core maps doing Hero Points, you'll probably have enough points to instantly unlock half of a specialization. I'll advice you to then move to PoF to fully unlock the spec to make progression easier.

   Some specs I'll recomend to play in OW oince you reach 80:

Warrior: Marauder Bladesworn or celestial Berserker.

Guardian: celestial Firebrand or trailblazer Willbender.

Revenant: celestial Vindicator or celestial Herald.

Ranger: marauder Soulbeast or trailblazer Untamed.

Thief: marauder Deadeye, but this is harder to master.

Engineer: marauder or celestial Mechanist.

Necromancer:  celestial Reaper.

Mesmer: celestial Mirage.

Elementalist: celestial/traiblazer Weaver or Catalyst.

   Feel free to ask fior a specific build from the profession you main. 

[Gibson.4036]

4 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Expansions are in general harder than the regular game (specially HoT), although the power creep you get from the specs is huge and that combined with some nerfs to the maps after the release makes the game easier once you known what and how to play. Some key factors:

* You need to focus in map exploration and unlocking masteries ASAP, since they hugely improve the navigation and qol.

* Equaly, you should unlock mounts ASAP. This happens organically, as the maps provide them in ther order that is needed.

* When you reach 80, if you've been exploring the core maps doing Hero Points, you'll probably have enough points to instantly unlock half of a specialization. I'll advice you to then move to PoF to fully unlock the spec to make progression easier.

   Some specs I'll recomend to play in OW oince you reach 80:

Warrior: Marauder Bladesworn or celestial Berserker.

Guardian: celestial Firebrand or trailblazer Willbender.

Revenant: celestial Vindicator or celestial Herald.

Ranger: marauder Soulbeast or trailblazer Untamed.

Thief: marauder Deadeye, but this is harder to master.

Engineer: marauder or celestial Mechanist.

Necromancer:  celestial Reaper.

Mesmer: celestial Mirage.

Elementalist: celestial/traiblazer Weaver or Catalyst.

   Feel free to ask fior a specific build from the profession you main. 

Agreed with your list with the exception of Ele, where I’d recommend celestial scepter tempest and thief, where I’ve found staff Daredevil to be very survivable in open world, with the cleave you need for groups of mobs.

[stormemperor.3745]

On 4/29/2023 at 2:06 PM, Sethias.4279 said:

I'm not sure what my question is here really, more just a' reaching out' and a 'wondering as to why my experience is the way it is'. I'll probably just encounter a fair bit of flaming, and maybe justifiably so, and that'll be the end of that, but here goes, living in hope, etc, etc ...

I've leveled a few characters now in GW2 and I really enjoy the base game. I gear them up and then off I go to one of the expansions and then start to totally dislike the game. I'm not sure why, complexity, difficulty, strange progression in the max-level content.. something is just off for me and I can't put my finger on it. Maybe I'm just not a very good player and the ramp-up in difficulty is just too extreme, that's a distinct possibility. Strangely though I don't experience that in other mmos. Maybe the game just isn't for me, another distinct possibility as we all like different things.

As I say, I'm not entirely sure what or why I'm asking. Just wondering if anyone else experiences, or has experienced, this, and was there a moment where you suddenly overcame it?

Entire gw2 story is about

Spoiler

love, breakup and marriage between two lovers

. Everything else is filler. Oops...

[Sethias.4279]

Hi there, I just wanted to say a big thank you for all these responses to my post, it's been really helpful and given me a lot to consider. I'll follow this advice, unlock an elite specialisation and avoid HoT until later. Also, find a class that's not too demanding and gear/build for open world. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 4/29/2023 at 7:06 AM, Sethias.4279 said:

I'm not sure what my question is here really, more just a' reaching out' and a 'wondering as to why my experience is the way it is'. I'll probably just encounter a fair bit of flaming, and maybe justifiably so, and that'll be the end of that, but here goes, living in hope, etc, etc ...

I've leveled a few characters now in GW2 and I really enjoy the base game. I gear them up and then off I go to one of the expansions and then start to totally dislike the game. I'm not sure why, complexity, difficulty, strange progression in the max-level content.. something is just off for me and I can't put my finger on it. Maybe I'm just not a very good player and the ramp-up in difficulty is just too extreme, that's a distinct possibility. Strangely though I don't experience that in other mmos. Maybe the game just isn't for me, another distinct possibility as we all like different things.

As I say, I'm not entirely sure what or why I'm asking. Just wondering if anyone else experiences, or has experienced, this, and was there a moment where you suddenly overcame it?

In other MMOs you tend to rapidly increase power via ilvl from improving your gear,  trivializing most solo content.  They also have strictly defined class roles which limit the variance between builds.  Finally, MMOs like WoW and FFXIV don't rely on active defense much, which leads to more predictable outcomes.

In GW2 if you don't have the right build and you haven't practiced the combat and familiarized yourself with the enemies it can seem very difficult and that situation doesn't improve simply by gaining new gear.

[Urud.4925]

There are players who love the expansions (many started to play/came back after one of them, like PoF) and others who find them... let's say way too different from the core game. I don't know exactly what you dislike now, but it would be nice to know more about it, especially what expansion you're referring to (I guess HoT, from your latest post).

Personally, I remember that I faced some problems in my early days in HoT, with my rare/exotic gear (I thought that a set with a lot of swiftness bonus was a super cool idea), but then I focused on exploring the maps and it was awesome. But it's also true that years ago we had no mounts, so we had to go slower, exploring more, while now new players see a lot of people rushing through the contents and simply try to catch up, to don't lose the events, so it's more stressful, especially if you are used to the cozy core maps.

PoF was even worse, as you can't stay still/afk for 5 seconds. I second what @EphemeralWallaby.7643 said: try to explore the zones more, and less to follow the zerg, at least until you feel comfortable and being a sheep becomes natural 😕