[sPvP] WB Struggling in ATs & Top 100

[Saiyan.1704]

This post may not pertain to a lot of people but it needs to be talked about.

In the competitive scene of things WB is staggering behind every single class... in fact not a single top50 player/streamer is running WB in ranked let alone being successful with it in ATs. WB is in desperate need of a buff and I don't think that's something on Anet's radar...there's no upcoming changes to WB in the wiki's future patch notes and the incoming nerfs of other classes isn't going to suddenly put us up there as a 5th pick in AT's.

What's really hurting WB right now is a lot of what other streamers have talked about. For a class that is 100% melee oriented it doesn't have a lot of self-sustain options outside of F2 and F3. Even when we do have F2&F3, we need to land melee hits to heal or negate damage. We have to be mobile enough to get up-close and personal to land hits. Sometimes it feels like I need two or three Judges Intervention's just to stick on a person... Flash Combo is supposed to be the answer but it's too clunky and its damage is so laughably low that it's not worth sacrificing another utility that gives a stunebreak or condi cleanse.

Scrappers have insane amounts of Superspeed, disengage options...Cata and Virtuoso have huge amounts of damage negation in distorts, invulns, or blocks while simultaneously dealing damage...Reaper boon corruptions and porting on areas where we can't shadowstep to, trolling a class that's supposed to have one of the better engagements in the game. These are just a few examples of how terrible WB is when faced off against these kind of specs in a high rated game.

Idc if Anet buffs our damage or sustains but we definitely need some kind of change...
 

[Ixl Super Eu Ixl.3259]

Have you tried speed runes on WB? Sacrifice slight damage to be faster than everyone who does not have high superspeed. Then Sword mainhand + Sword offhand both have mobility tied in them as well. Greatsword has a leap. Hammer has a teleport now. Think WB needs a bit of sustain sure, given it seems to have fallen off when it lost the double F2. But again, I've found with speed runes I can engage and disengage all major threats except superspeed scrappers (but they cannot teleport so usually just out port them-sw2/JI tricks). 

[Saiyan.1704]

On 5/7/2023 at 11:45 PM, Ixl Super Eu Ixl.3259 said:

Have you tried speed runes on WB? Sacrifice slight damage to be faster than everyone who does not have high superspeed. Then Sword mainhand + Sword offhand both have mobility tied in them as well. Greatsword has a leap. Hammer has a teleport now. Think WB needs a bit of sustain sure, given it seems to have fallen off when it lost the double F2. But again, I've found with speed runes I can engage and disengage all major threats except superspeed scrappers (but they cannot teleport so usually just out port them-sw2/JI tricks). 

It doesn't feel like speed runes does much of anything, imo. Unless you're Plat1+ and it's working that well for you then i'll give your build a shot. But honestly if I was going to go that far, I'd go with DH and trapper runes.

Another thing I wanted to talk about though instead of giving this a random bump... Should we have Whirling Light's 8k AoE damage (zerks with all damage mods) down to something around 5k damage, but Make F1 hit for 6k (zerks) instead of 2k and offhand Sword#4 hit for 7k (zerks) instead of 3k.

Currently F1 and offhand sword doesn't feel rewarding to pull off damage wise and is almost always taken for mobility instead of damage. We rely on Whirling Light's damage 100% of the time.... AND it farms all the bronze and silver players... There's literally a thread about "Willbender farms 3 people at once and is unkillable" in the PvP section lol!!!

Only other thing I can think of is buff Shattered Aegis in Zeal for some pog AoE damage (but be vulnerable to CC and Cleanse since we wont be in virtues)... idk just a thought.. wouldn't mind some one else's input on the matter though.

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

Sword4 def needs buffs, it's too hard to land and does too little when it does land. 

Speed rune is garbage on WB, especially in pvp where it's been giga nerfed. The only scenario where it's useful is for 1v1ing herald in wvw. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Hogwarts Zebra.8597

[Saiyan.1704]

6 hours ago, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

Sword4 def needs buffs, it's too hard to land and does too little when it does land. 

Yeah it's why i run valks now. Zerks & Valks is pretty much the most efficient way to run WB at the moment but i know a lot of guards will say Mara's is still good, idk. Since the 30% damage nerf on Sword#4/Sword#5/F1/F3, Marauders just doesn't feel good to me anymore and sword#5 CC is still needed.

One of the more efficient ways I like to run valks is going Zeal/Radiance, taking advantage of Wrathful Spirit and Inner Fire's fury upkeep (Eagle or similar precision runes). It is high damage similar to zerks except with 20k health, but at a cost of cleanses and stability stunbreaks in Virtue tree.... that and i've ran Feel My Wrath over Renew Focus solely because 105 seconds for an elite is crazy. FMW is up in almost every engagement. That and it's fun but the elite is not a make-or-break for valk specs.

... "condi guard is bad" rant...only click spoiler if you care about condi guard in pvp.

Spoiler

A lot of players used to see me run hybrid WB or some other form of condi guard but condi guard as a whole has been lackluster... and it has 100% to do with how poorly our condi coverage is. Well i say that... but they've nerfed our condi damage and condi duration so much that even IF we pull off a burst, there's only a 3burn tick max on F1 + Permeating Wrath that we lose so much dps in any given scenario. The condi spirit sword in Zeal got nerfed sooo bad that it's no longer worth taking that trait.. they might as well delete the grandmaster trait altogether. And let me remind everyone that all of these nerfs were 100% because mid ranked Guards were farming mid ranked players who don't know  how to cleanse 1 condi. Condi guard was never officially meta in any tournament.

The only form of condi guard that's "meme but good" is Sage Core support and that's only because we can supply 3 burn stacks instantly to our surrounding teammates, for a potential 9x stacks of burn bursts (2v2 or 3v3 mini's), while also being able to dish out some pog heals. It's otherwise not all that great in Ranked queue or AT unless it's heavily coordinated with players who are ALSO running condi builds. The F1 damage is based off of their own condi power.

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Saiyan.1704

[Downstate.4697]

For sustain issues just slap an op heal like bladesworn and reaper. Increase reversal of fortune heal by 1k and remove the conditional requirement for extra healing.

[otto.5684]

WB struggles with same issues that most guardian dps buds suffer from, lack of CC and ability to stick to target. Even if WB sustain was buffed, it will still struggle. 

In any case, guardian is doing poorly in spvp, outside of core support.

[Downstate.4697]

I asked chatGPT how to make willbender good in PvP. Take notes…

 

To make a Willbender good at PvP in Guild Wars 2, you'll need to focus on several key aspects, including build optimization, understanding mechanics, and honing your skills. Here are some tips to improve your Willbender's PvP performance:

1. Build Optimization:
   - Choose the right traits: Experiment with different trait combinations to find the ones that suit your playstyle. Traits like Harmonious Conduit, Final Charge, and Unrelenting Assault can be effective for Willbenders.
   - Select appropriate utilities: Consider utility skills that provide mobility, crowd control, and burst damage. Skills like Lightning Flash, Signet of Agility, and Weave Self can be valuable in PvP encounters.
   - Gear and stat allocation: Opt for gear with suitable stats, such as Berserker's or Marauder's for increased damage and survivability. Experiment with different gear combinations to find what works best for you.

2. Understand Mechanics:
   - Study your profession: Take the time to learn the intricacies of the Willbender profession, including the unique abilities and mechanics. Understanding your skills and traits will enable you to make the most effective decisions during combat.
   - Know your opponents: Familiarize yourself with other professions' abilities and traits to anticipate their moves and counter accordingly. This knowledge will help you make informed decisions and adapt your strategy in real-time.

3. Skill and Strategy:
   - Practice, practice, practice: Regularly engage in PvP matches to improve your reflexes, decision-making, and muscle memory. Joining PvP-focused guilds or communities can provide additional opportunities for practice and learning.
   - Master your combos: Discover powerful skill combinations and rotations that allow you to maximize your damage output. Learn how to initiate combos, evade enemy attacks, and maintain pressure on opponents.
   - Positioning and awareness: Pay attention to your positioning during fights, making use of terrain and line of sight to your advantage. Develop situational awareness to anticipate enemy movements and react accordingly.

4. Analyze and Adapt:
   - Review your matches: After each match, analyze your gameplay to identify strengths, weaknesses, and areas for improvement. Take note of successful strategies, mistakes made, and potential adjustments.
   - Learn from others: Watch high-level PvP gameplay videos or streams featuring Willbenders to gain insights into their playstyle, decision-making, and tactics. You can adopt and adapt successful strategies to fit your own style.

Remember, becoming proficient in PvP takes time, patience, and practice. Don't get discouraged by losses, and use each match as an opportunity to learn and grow. With persistence and a willingness to improve, you can become a formidable Willbender in Guild Wars 2 PvP.

[Saiyan.1704]

On 6/2/2023 at 4:18 PM, Downstate.4697 said:

I asked chatGPT how to make willbender good in PvP. Take notes…

 

To make a Willbender good at PvP in Guild Wars 2, you'll need to focus on several key aspects, including build optimization, understanding mechanics, and honing your skills. Here are some tips to improve your Willbender's PvP performance:

1. Build Optimization:
   - Choose the right traits: Experiment with different trait combinations to find the ones that suit your playstyle. Traits like Harmonious Conduit, Final Charge, and Unrelenting Assault can be effective for Willbenders.
   - Select appropriate utilities: Consider utility skills that provide mobility, crowd control, and burst damage. Skills like Lightning Flash, Signet of Agility, and Weave Self can be valuable in PvP encounters.

 

idk what these are....but I already know they are eons better than our current physical utilities. Anet, please consider the skills Lightning Flash and Weave Self. Please buff Weave Self. I do not dodge and weave efficiently. 

[Ferus.3165]

with the buff to feel my wrath renewed focus is probably permanently off the table in pvp... with that lengthy cd the value you get out of that skill has been reduced so much that i think a bit of group quickness on a farely low cd brings more to the table.

tbh i don't really know how i would buff willbender without making it opressive like thief/revenant.

I think the tradeoff for a highly mobile and very bursty assassin build should be that it shouldn't be a good duelist.. the problem here is that thief is just better than wb at doing that job.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Ferus.3165

[Makion.3457]

omg YES to all Op said!! I just got back to pvp and Im finding that nekros and scrappers with that kitten aoe that gives you a million  burn stacks melt my hp, even using meditation cleanses is useless because if you have two characters that stacks condis and corrupts  your boons you are done, no solution for that. 

[Saiyan.1704]

On 6/11/2023 at 4:47 PM, Ferus.3165 said:

with the buff to feel my wrath renewed focus is probably permanently off the table in pvp... with that lengthy cd the value you get out of that skill has been reduced so much that i think a bit of group quickness on a farely low cd brings more to the table.

tbh i don't really know how i would buff willbender without making it opressive like thief/revenant.

I think the tradeoff for a highly mobile and very bursty assassin build should be that it shouldn't be a good duelist.. the problem here is that thief is just better than wb at doing that job.

The patch is more of a QoL fix than anything else. Other classes are receiving their own cd reductions so the meta wont really change and that's the worse thing about this "PvP Patch". It's simply a placebo for players thinking the meta will change.

Feel My Wrath just feels more.... natural? RF is more duelist oriented but at such a long CD it has... it feels like such a waste when constantly rotating and waiting for an elite. Rotating around the map will definitely feel more natural with FMW after the patch.

What they NEED to do is buff Heaven's Palm and Flash Combo. Make these skills ground targeted instead of needing a target to use the abilities and it would literally be near meta for WB. If they are not going to make Flash Combo ground targeted (the best thing they could do) then increase the damage by like... 35%... otherwise Flash Combo will be useless.

If they would make Flash Combo just a ground target showdowstep without that 4 tickle hit damage, that alone would be a buff. But I doubt Anet would ever do that. There isn't anything Flashy about Flash Combo. IDK WHY they haven't buffed our WB elite yet and flash combo......at the very least change it's cooldown, but that still would just be a bandaid fix if it's only by a few seconds.

[Dorsai.1458]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:38 PM, Downstate.4697 said:

For sustain issues just slap an op heal like bladesworn and reaper. Increase reversal of fortune heal by 1k and remove the conditional requirement for extra healing.

Use one of your other heals.

[Ferus.3165]

On 6/30/2023 at 7:07 PM, Dorsai.1458 said:

Use one of your other heals.

kitten what an idea... why did noone else ever think of this glorious and fabulous way to change willbender. You truly enlightend every willbender, no every guardian player in the world with your spectacular insight and class knowledge. Thank you for helping all of us out with your endless wisdom because no other player ever thought of trying out different heal skills. You are better than all of us Dorsai.1458, you are the best.

[Sonork.2916]

• WB elite should evade during the cast time. 
• Except for whirling wrath, WB phy utilities are kitten  
• Deathless courage is 100% worthless grandmaster trait and isn't selected for any game mode GW2 has.
• Offhand sword 4 has too much wind up and pauses any damage rotation you might want to use.
• Guardian heal skills are kitten compared to other classes
• Many guardian traits are only offer +dmg and offer no interesting choices compared to other classes
• Guardian is a melee class with kitten hard CC, and no soft CC...