How good is firebrand for PVE actually?

[Peter.3901]

I'm planning to use it in fractals and raids, even open world, how good is firebrand for condi build? and healer?

 

Forgot to mention, is more about pyromancies, Elden Ring feelings.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Peter.3901

[the krytan assassin.9235]

Not sure about open world, but for instanced PvE id say HFB is BiS for stability/aegis focused fights (fractals, W4, KO CM and DS strike) and quite good for W2. Apart from that it gets outclassed by Dudu/ham/HAT/Herald most of the time. QFB usually gets outclassed by Herald, cata and scrapper, but still is a decent pick. CFB is simply in a bad spot rn, getting outclassed by 90% of all meta builds. 

 

HFB,QFB and CFB are still viable in endgame PvE (mostly because there isn't to much of a dps/healing output requirement for most content). However if you try to optimize your effectiveness in endgame PvE content the firebrand currently in general doesn't offer the best awnser to that. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by the krytan assassin.9235

[DarkCobalt.2849]

Firebrand is very good for a support option, one of the best in the game.

 

The healing build is a bit complicated because of how many skills you have at your disposal (with all of the tomes having their own hotbars), but it has the highest carry potential in the game with its utility. It's the only consistent provider of Stability and Aegis, which can make Fractals trivial if you know how to use those boons well. It also has Reflects too.

 

The condi quickDPS build is also fairly good, at the moment it's pretty much the only real viable condi quick build. It can still take all of the nice utilities that the healer one can, so it has a lot of flexibility to adapt to situations where you need Stability, Aegis, Reflects, etc. Generally more used in raids, as in Fractals the healing one is the best choice for most groups. It's also decent for open-world farming with its massive cleave and easy access to boons to keep yourself topped off on Quickness, Fury, and some Might.

 

As for the DPS variant... it exists. The May 2nd balance patch hit it really hard and it's probably not going to be recommended anymore as it's (almost) pure melee and doesn't do enough damage to make up for the short range. Still waiting on confirmed numbers and need to test run it in a few raids to find out if it's worth playing or not. 

Edited May 5, 2023 by DarkCobalt.2849

[zealex.9410]

1 hour ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

Not sure about open world, but for instanced PvE id say HFB is BiS for stability/aegis focused fights (fractals, W4, and DS strike) and quite good for W2. Apart from that it gets outclassed by Dudu/ham/HAT/Herald most of the time. QFB usually gets outclassed by Herald, cata and scrapper, but still is a decent pick. CFB is simply in a bad spot rn, getting outclassed by 90% of all meta builds. 

 

HFB,QFB and CFB are still viable in endgame PvE (mostly because there isn't to much of a dps/healing output requirement for most content). However if you try to optimize your effectiveness in endgame PvE content the firebrand currently in general doesn't offer the best awnser to that. 

For the utility it bring cfb does aight dmg.

[the krytan assassin.9235]

2 hours ago, zealex.9410 said:

For the utility it bring cfb does aight dmg.

meh i kinda disagree. CFB took a really big hit in terms of dps loss last balance patch and most of CFB's utility will result in quite abit of dps loss aswell. There are alot of builds out there atm that get alot higher dps output while offering different (but similair in quality) extra utility. The FB atm has some sort of forced flexibility; you always get the same package whatever the encounter may be and you pay with it with a high dps loss. Also with self sufficient builds like reaper, spb, cvirtuoso, cmech, vindi and willbender out there the extra utility from CFB becomes kinda unnecessary for most encounters. 

[zealex.9410]

20 minutes ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

meh i kinda disagree. CFB took a really big hit in terms of dps loss last balance patch and most of CFB's utility will result in quite abit of dps loss aswell. There are alot of builds out there atm that get alot higher dps output while offering different (but similair in quality) extra utility. The FB atm has some sort of forced flexibility; you always get the same package whatever the encounter may be and you pay with it with a high dps loss. Also with self sufficient builds like reaper, spb, cvirtuoso, cmech, vindi and willbender out there the extra utility from CFB becomes kinda unnecessary for most encounters. 

You always have a couple of free pages and if you dont use 2 tome 1 2s you can have even more pages which basically gives you free reflect bubbles or free syg/advance on the same cd and then the healing modifiers from tome 3. Theres alot of built in group utility that this spec can give and in way its even more available now since the rework. Plus afaik condi fb now benches around 38k, that respectable.

[draxynnic.3719]

Firebrand is no longer undisputed BiS, but it's still pretty darn competitive. I'd have to see what the current benchmarks are to really judge, and I'm not sure I like how they nerfed the damage, but the prepatch numbers were high enough that it could certainly afford to lose about 3k and still be a fairly good choice (and healbrand is still going strong).

The biggest concern I'd have is that firebrand's future might end up becoming a victim of its past success. When something had been dominant for as long as firebrand was, it can often take the thing being nerfed so hard that people are forced to stop playing it before people will admit that it's no longer OP. ArenaNet has a history of overnerfing and firebrand is clearly in the crosshairs, so if firebrand getting potentially nerfed into the ground within the next year or so is something that will give you pause, it might be worth considering looking into options that aren't attracting as much pressure to be nerfed. If you do have the means to reasonably conveniently switch to something else if firebrand gets destroyed, though, it's a good choice at least for the time being, and hopefully will continue to be if ArenaNet recognises when the right point is to stop nerfing.

Edited May 6, 2023 by draxynnic.3719
Fixed a minor grammatical error

[Aenesthesia.1697]

3 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Firebrand is no longer undisputed BiS, but it's still pretty darn competitive. I'd have to see what the current benchmarks are to really judge, and I'm not sure I like how they nerfed the damage, but the prepatch numbers were high enough that it could certainly afford to lose about 3k and still be a fairly good choice (and healbrand is still going strong).

 

Around 3-4k loss after a couple of tries at the golem? Seems quite a lot, but maybe I screwed up my rotation.  

[Buran.3796]

   Can't talk about instanced content, but in OW PvE playing solo the dowmgrades are tangible. One of the slowest specs soloing HPs, and for the dps you get, the sustain seems low for doing bounties.

   I guess in instanced content will remain as one of the top choices giving how much as a "swiss knife" is due the versatility of skills, but I would never ride a FB for OW meta events, neither as a dps nor as a support. I still find it very fun to play, but between being garbage at PvP for like the nlast 3 years in a row, arguably weak in WvW roaming and becoming gradually worse in PvE now is getting close to the point in which a single straw could break the camel's back, as happened to rifle Mech (one day is broken OP, a patch later is way weaker but still ok since is decent at low effort then another patch nerfs the qol/damage a bit and suddenly is just nauseating and you need to stop to play it and returning the toon to to the alt parking box). FB feels pretty close to sink under that final straw...

[draxynnic.3719]

I'd be surprised if it's really that bad in open world. If you're trying to run the pure DPS version, sure, but pure DPS builds rely on boons from others to perform and drop off quickly if you don't have that. An open world firebrand really should be running some variety of quickdps build, not just for the sake of buffing others, but just because making sure that you yourself have quickness will often mean that you at least match up fairly well against pure DPS builds that don't have those boons.

Probably is a bit behind for soloing bosses, though - its ability to sustain itself is fairly limited by guardian standards, particularly while also doing damage, and the Justice tome is fairly oriented towards fighting groups.

[Peter.3901]

Wow, I never thought this class would be so bad. I was hoping for something more positive. As I enjoy playing as a mage, I expected Firebrand to be some kind of high-DPS pyromancer. I must have missed a lot during the time I was away.

[stormemperor.3745]

22 hours ago, Peter.3901 said:

I'm planning to use it in fractals and raids, even open world, how good is firebrand for condi build? and healer?

 

Forgot to mention, is more about pyromancies, Elden Ring feelings.

Quick Firebrand okay dps, nerfed

Condition DPS Firebrand okay dps, nerfed

Heal Quick Firebrand, very good everywhere, welcome everywhere.

 

Heal Firebrand = There is no such thing. You give both quick and heal when you are hfb. Don't be like poor snobs in lfg "I am hfb I heal" 

 

At the moment you are like 95% guardians/firebrand found everywhere. I'll give 1 tip to make you top tier guardian. Welcome everywhere, no one will complain, no one will insult you. You will instantly jump to god tier player after reading this post.

 

Stand Your Ground, This skill gives 5 stability to your group (5 people including  yourself). Take this skill everywhere, it doesn't matter if it its dps lose. Since you are beginner, watch out for every boss, whenever they cc you use SYG and get used to use SYG before boss attacks. Using this skill earns you RESPECT. Even snobby fractal gods(account buyers) don't know this. 

Quick DPS guardians also don't take it because of dps lose. Don't be like them. RESPECT > DPS. 

 

Just by using this skill you are already above 95% of guardians in game. If you use it and time it well before boss atks you are 1% top tier guardian. Don't listen to anyone else, take SYG, embrace it. 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Stand_Your_Ground!"

If you don't take SYG someone is likely to insult you or harass you in fractals. be aware. Especially Chaos Fractal.

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, Peter.3901 said:

Wow, I never thought this class would be so bad. I was hoping for something more positive. As I enjoy playing as a mage, I expected Firebrand to be some kind of high-DPS pyromancer. I must have missed a lot during the time I was away.

   Oh, is not like is bad at all. But doesn't fit the place I would like it to have given its current limitatios. Yes, you have a skill for every situation (AoE stability, protection, regeneration, aegis, projectile denial and even reflections, cleanses etc. Also, proccing fire damage (the most bursty condition in the game by far) is a passive effect, and if you use symbols or fast paced skills, you'll proc those a lot. Regular mobs melt in seconds, and veterans. In OW PvE I run celestial + fireworks runes, axe + shield (sometimes torch) and greatsword (due I like the gameplay) and is competent. A veteran giant from the Elon Riverlands falls in 15 seconds, doing nothing to you; you can delete a WvW bristleback in 11 seconds (suffering no harm), something which I only achieved with a much more aggressive condi Willbender (and with larger risk). I can burst ~22 burns in the opening, and have no problems soloing most of HoT HPs (a couple of them are a pita, tho). But outside that initial window you're not that fast killing foes with very large HP, and compared to Revenant or Mesmer the self sustain soloing bounties is nowere near. And I like to play tanks.

   Then is a couple of other things: 10 days ago tried a support FB build in PvP. Was the first time in 45+ years I equiped a staff in a Guardian (was my main until HoT). So I clearly remember the days in which the staff was the WvW "loot stick", when projected a 1200 unit range AoE fan of cleave damage (small amounts, but up to 5 targets). The fan was later reduced to 600 units. Then they nerfed it again changing some staff skills, but at the time it was no longer my main and I never experienced the new staff again. So I did it for first time at the end of April, and oh boy...   Is garbage. I don't care how good is Empower for healing builds or sharing power (not like might matters that much now that half of the roster can stack 25 might permanently), I can't endure the #1 staff skills. Afetr a few matches I had to inmediatly delete the build. And it bothers me, since the only buffs FB got in PvP in the last patch were oriented to support builds (which are entirely unable to compete against core Guardian, anyway).

   So Firebrand is stuck in a "good place" in PvE, but in a diminishing trend, which doesn't seems to stop, even after the segregation of builds for each tome (you no longer get good resuts witout sacrifices), the nerfs in Sword of Justice, the nuking of the mantras (no mater how cool the animations are, the pre-cast is a huge qol step back) and now reducing the burn damage across all builds (not the support condi quickness varaint but all burn builds). In the last 14 months, while playing FB in PvE (solo) I've removed from my skill bar any mantra and  SoJ. The PvE FB has been losing appealing while the PvP one remains useless. As I said before, when the rifle Mech stopped being fun, I stopped playing it (by the way, I deleted one of my 3 guardians since this spiral of nerfs started year and half ago).

   Edit: I agree with stormdemperor. My go to FB build always uses SYG + Purging Flames since SYG is both the Guadian fastest breakstun, a massive (in both duration and stacks) and PF gives damage + cleanses.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Buran.3796

[Infinity.2876]

So far still carrying Drizzlewood, after patch it hits like wet noodle tho

[draxynnic.3719]

I wouldn't necessarily say you should ALWAYS bring SYG...

...but when in doubt, bring SYG.

If you're not bringing it, you should be very aware of the reason you're not bringing it, and be aware of where you can get Stability from other sources.

[Infusion.7149]

I like  Advance over SYG if attacks ignore stability (see Sirens Reef). It is also a better choice for W4 Deimos since stability does not work for the slams but aegis does.

On a heal firebrand or any sort of hybrid (cele/plaguedoctor/seraph or otherwise running the honor traitline) the aegis also triggers more healing.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Infusion.7149

[Gaiawolf.8261]

 

Slot for the encounter. SYG is a good staple option for most encounters, but sometimes encounters pulse a CC faster than SYG recharges, so Mantra of Liberation is better. I supposed there could be times you need extra stacks to cover a longer mechanic, and a traited Hallowed Ground is better. That's probably rare, but hey, it's also a fire field! LOL. Then there's wvw zergs, where you take all 3! 

[draxynnic.3719]

4 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

I like  Advance over SYG if attacks ignore stability (see Sirens Reef). It is also a better choice for W4 Deimos since stability does not work for the slams but aegis does.

On a heal firebrand or any sort of hybrid (cele/plaguedoctor/seraph or otherwise running the honor traitline) the aegis also triggers more healing.

Yep. There are times Aegis is more important. There are times you want Shelter to destroy a breakbar. And there are times when you just want maximum DPS and take the build directly from Snowcrows or wherever.

Point is that you shouldn't blindly take the golem benchmark build everywhere. Most encounters you want to make a substitution or two. And SYG is a good default substitution.

Edited May 8, 2023 by draxynnic.3719