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Who is Tom?


Bacster.4031

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On 5/5/2023 at 9:56 PM, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Wake now my merry lads! Wake and hear me calling!
Warm now be heart and limb! The cold stone is fallen;

Dark door is standing wide; dead hand is broken.

Night under Night is flown, and the Gate is open!

On 5/5/2023 at 9:54 PM, Bacster.4031 said:

im quite sure thats not the line I heard x)

You heard incorrectly, believe me. 😜 Here's the relevant wiki page with the dialogue, or go back there yourself and listen to it again when it eventually repeats.

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8 minutes ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Hey! now! Come hoy now! Whither do you wander?
Up, down, near or far, here, there or yonder?

Sharp-ears, Wise-nose, Swish-tail and Bumpkin

White-socks my little lad, and old Fatty Lumpkin!

 

okay, sorry if this thread gets locked because we're just being silly at this point, but it's so worth it

Edited by Batel.9206
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Not even remotely how I'd describe the dynamic considering we're his superior and how young he is.

We meet his professor who isn't very old either in one of the instances and part of the pathos relating to his untimely demise is derived from the realization that he would never get to see the life he promised to live with his wife after the war with Zhaitan was over.

If anything, he's the brilliant up-and-comer newlywed whose life was cut short by ours and Trahearne's grand vision for Tyria's future.

And his youth plays better into the nature of the quest chain anyway, instigated by our fear of "letting an innocent die". Doesn't really make sense if he's the old experienced veteran.

Edited by mandala.8507
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6 hours ago, mandala.8507 said:

Not even remotely how I'd describe the dynamic considering we're his superior and how young he is.

I wasn't talking about actual positions, but the way it's written.

Yes, we're the superior, however, we're "learning the ropes" for demolition, which he is the expert on. The dialogue is very much in the same theme and style as a rookie cop partnered with an older one who's happy to show the ropes.

I'm also not quite sure on that whole "how young he is" bit. He's not an old fossil, but he's not a spry young recruit either - you don't get to be a expert in the field with several years of experience while still being youthful. This paints him as late 20s at the absolute youngest, likely mid/late-30s is more likely. And he doesn't come off as "newlywed" either.

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1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Yes, we're the superior, however, we're "learning the ropes" for demolition, which he is the expert on. The dialogue is very much in the same theme and style as a rookie cop partnered with an older one who's happy to show the ropes.

We're not there to learn from Tonn, we're there to assist him. Similar to most of our endeavors, we are the brawn sent to match his brains. The "big guns" as he calls us.

There is a comradery that we develop and the word partner is used, but there's never a power dynamic between us that suggests Tonn's seniority. In fact, the opposite tends to be true. We refer to him quite formally as "soldier" initially and he defers to us when it comes to decisions that don't directly involve/require his expertise. At best, I'd concede the Commander and Tonn converse as equals.

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

he's not a spry young recruit either

Yet, it is made apparent that he is a recruit.

During our first mission with him, we ask about his wife and whether or not she is with the Pact as well, and he responds:

Quote

She's a medic, so she's on the front lines every day. She'd rather be teaching back in Rata Sum, but there's a war on, so we both answered the call.

To me, the only valid interpretation of this insight is that he and Ceera didn't join the Pact's efforts until the war had already begun, making them recruits by definition — ordinary civilians that "answered the call" and volunteered to join us in our fight against Zhaitan and the undead.

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

you don't get to be a expert in the field with several years of experience while still being youthful

The dialogue only informs us that he is passionate, talented, and knowledgeable; not that he has years of experience under his belt. Also, Taimi would like a word.

And when I really think about it, this phenomenon of young excellence seems quite common among the Asura.

All this to say: No, I don't think I agree with your interpretation here.

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4 hours ago, mandala.8507 said:

We're not there to learn from Tonn, we're there to assist him. Similar to most of our endeavors, we are the brawn sent to match his brains. The "big guns" as he calls us.

We're also learning from him, as he's constantly telling us how to handle demolition work.

That said, you're focusing on the wrong parts of my post. I never said he actually is an old grizzly cop that we're learning from. I said the dialogue style and writing mirrors that archetypal story that has that young cop-old cop vibe, from the old cop teaching the young cop stuff as they work, down to the old cop dying in the field. The plotline was exceedingly predictable from Tonn's death to Ceera's behavior because it followed this trope beat for beat. They just swapped things around.

While the "newlywed soldier who dies" is a similar trope, the key differences are

  1. Tonn went around teaching the Commander during the missions, thus acting as a psuedo-mentor figure.
  2. There is no evidence they're newlyweds - Tonn and Ceera had clearly been married for a while.
  3. The style of death didn't use any your typical "young soldier in love dies" flags, like "when I get back, I'm going to marry her" dialogue (because, in part, they were already long married - the trope you're referencing usually has the soldier in question as merely engaged or preparing honeymoon).
4 hours ago, mandala.8507 said:

Yet, it is made apparent that he is a recruit.

The Pact literally just formed. EVERYONE is a recruit, especially if they're not in the Orders. But he's not a young recruit.

4 hours ago, mandala.8507 said:

The dialogue only informs us that he is passionate, talented, and knowledgeable; not that he has years of experience under his belt. Also, Taimi would like a word.

And when I really think about it, this phenomenon of young excellence seems quite common among the Asura.

Taimi is literally called out many times as being a unique situation. A prodigy of prodigies. Tonn is so well known an expert that he's a renown expert in the field among other species, who wished to learn from him. Such as Strixel. Unlike asura, humans wouldn't be wanting to learn from a teenager.

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4 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

That said, you're focusing on the wrong parts of my post. I never said he actually is an old grizzly cop that we're learning from. I said the dialogue style and writing mirrors that archetypal story that has that young cop-old cop vibe, from the old cop teaching the young cop stuff as they work, down to the old cop dying in the field. The plotline was exceedingly predictable from Tonn's death to Ceera's behavior because it followed this trope beat for beat. They just swapped things around.

And I'm saying this is a weak interpretation of the character dynamics and themes present in Tonn's arc of the personal story.

It wasn't predictable because it followed this trope you've erroneously ascribed to it. It was predictable because our story branch selection literally told us what was going happen. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • ArenaNet Staff
On 5/5/2023 at 2:23 PM, Batel.9206 said:

Tonn, not Tom. He's an asura explosives expert encountered in the "Forming the Pact" part of the personal story if you choose that your greatest fear is "letting an innocent die."

Yeah, he's the guy you blew up in the Personal Story. 😉

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On 5/9/2023 at 11:40 AM, mandala.8507 said:

And I'm saying this is a weak interpretation of the character dynamics and themes present in Tonn's arc of the personal story.

It wasn't predictable because it followed this trope you've erroneously ascribed to it. It was predictable because our story branch selection literally told us what was going happen. 

It was predictable on first playthrough back in 2012 when people didn't know that the option the Pale Tree brought up mattered several story missions down the line (which is literally the first and only time that happens in the personal story).

It wasn't predictable that Apatia would be turned into a risen and you'd put her down. It wasn't predictable that Syska was a risen mesmer in disguise. It was predictable that Tonn would die by explosion of his own bomb at the end of the arc.

Your reason of it being predictable is only accurate if you know the choice with the Pale Tree is about that arc, and if you know what that arc is about. If you go in blind, like I did the first time I did the Tonn arc in September 2012, the other two are not predictable, but that one is.

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On 5/22/2023 at 3:55 PM, Bobby Stein.3612 said:

Yeah, he's the guy you blew up in the Personal Story. 😉

-Hi Bobby, don't have a twitter so I'm here. Short and sweet- much better story beats/moments even if this was planned and has nothing to do with feedback lol.

-Was the plot of PTSD/stress hard to extrapolate on within the confines of a live game service?

-Was I mistaken that in GW2 its not explained or theorized what Oni are and their relationship with Tyria? Some new players are confused by them.

Thank you for your time!

Edited by HotDelirium.7984
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