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what is good dps vs average dps?


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Simple answer:

Good dps is if you are tied with other players.

Average dps is if you are a good portion below other players.

Poor dps is if you are a very large amount below other players, worst of all if you are rivaling supports.

That's a relative comparison of dps. Obviously in total values you'd be comparing yourself to more than just players in your squad.

Best to either run arcdps or give the golem a few trial runs to see where you are at. Or ask politely if others can tell you where you stand.

Edited by Cyninja.2954
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1 hour ago, Shadow Chaser.1948 said:

Just got kicked for answering I am average dps vs commander wanted good dps. Didn't even ask me to leave. Didn't ask what kinda average number do I pull. It was normal mode w4 :D.

It was instant kick. Raid never changes I guess haha.

Overally kind of weird, unneeded interaction. You don't know what "good" or "average" is (and in the context of this thread... neither do I, I guess), but you still went into the group with intention to say you do... less than good? Commie probably didn't even require you to make ANY estimate at all and as much as I wouldn't really care about someone saying that (because it simply doesn't mean much), maybe he just couldn't be bothered with your jokes 😅 
You messed around and you found out, whatever.

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There's a lot of variables when it comes to "good dps" or "average dps". Like what class do you play? Is it power or condi? Does the class perform good in that encounter? etc. Though as a general idea most classes are capable of doing 35k+ on the test dummy atm.

 

Might also consider that commander may have been looking for someone confident enough in their abilities so your comment of "having average dps" may have been a deterrent. Not to say that the kicking would not be considered rude but it's up to the commander to decide on who they kick or not. 🤷‍♂️

Edited by Dibit.6259
Wrong use of phrase, typos
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I was under the impression that snowcrow dps is good dps. Average is about 25-30k. Either way, I consider myself an average dps person because I do anywhere from 25-30k playing average way. Getting kicked for 25-30k on w4 normal mode is expected i guess.

I don't play often to  push harder than that. I just play couple of hours a week and just wondering what is considered good dps in raids.

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2 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Simple answer:

Good dps is if you are tied with other players.

Average dps is if you are a good portion below other players.

Poor dps is if you are a very large amount below other players, worst of all if you are rivaling supports.

That's a relative comparison of dps. Obviously in total values you'd be comparing yourself to more than just players in your squad.

Best to either run arcdps or give the golem a few trial runs to see where you are at. Or ask politely if others can tell you where you stand.

except, I didn't even get to enter the wing. lol. Commander was forming group and I joined as dps and asked if they have room for dps. Then commander asked sure if you have good dps. And, I said, I am average dps person. I am really okay with getting kicked. I don't care much at all. I am mostly chill person. When I run raids, I don't ever kick anyone for low dps.

I was just wondering what people consider good vs average dps numbers.

Edited by Shadow Chaser.1948
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3 minutes ago, Shadow Chaser.1948 said:

I was under the impression that snowcrow dps is good dps. Average is about 25-30k. Either way, I consider myself an average dps person because I do anywhere from 25-30k playing average way. Getting kicked for 25-30k on w4 normal mode is expected i guess.

I don't play often to  push harder than that. I just play couple of hours a week and just wondering what is considered good dps in raids.

Well thats your problem right there good dps is were ur at, great dps is snowcrows and average is 6-14

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1 hour ago, Shadow Chaser.1948 said:

Getting kicked for 25-30k on w4 normal mode is expected i guess.

Now you're just making stuff up painting what happened however you want. You said you got kicked for saying something, not "for 25-30k dps on w4". That's nothing more than your current interpretation of "good dps", if you wanted to know what that person had in mind, maybe you should have asked what numbers they are aiming at. Nobody here will tell you what another person subjectively thought "good" means.

1 hour ago, Shadow Chaser.1948 said:

I was under the impression that snowcrow dps is good dps. Average is about 25-30k. Either way, I consider myself an average dps person

Ok, so lets go with what you just established in your post:
IF you think "good dps means snowcrows dps" (personally I doubt that was the expectation there), but you know -and announced to the commie- "you're not dealing that dps" and you've joined the squad that "required that dps".... Then how are you surprised you got kicked? You clearly announced -by your own interpretation of those terms and numbers- that you don't fit the group's description. So... what are you surprised about here?

The main point is: whatever that "good" actually meant there, you simply announced you don't have it, right? You thought whatever you wanted, commie thought whatever they wanted... And the result for that mutual vagueness in communication was what it was.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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52 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Now you're just making stuff up painting what happened however you want. You said you got kicked for saying something, not "for 25-30k dps on w4". That's nothing more than your current interpretation of "good dps", if you wanted to know what that person had in mind, maybe you should have asked what numbers they are aiming at. Nobody here will tell you what another person subjectively thought "good" means.

Ok, so lets go with what you just established in your post:
IF you think "good dps means snowcrows dps" (personally I doubt that was the expectation there), but you know -and announced to the commie- "you're not dealing that dps" and you've joined the squad that "required that dps".... Then how are you surprised you got kicked? You clearly announced -by your own interpretation of those terms and numbers- that you don't fit the group's description. So... what are you surprised about here?

The main point is: whatever that "good" actually meant there, you simply announced you don't have it, right? You thought whatever you wanted, commie thought whatever they wanted... And the result for that mutual vagueness in communication was what it was.

okay, you are right. my fault for not explaining properly. I don't play often and as I mentioned above, I just wanted to know what most of seasoned raiders consider good vs average dps. So, I can answer it properly next time when I join team.

Edited by Shadow Chaser.1948
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1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

Well thats your problem right there good dps is were ur at, great dps is snowcrows and average is 6-14

Thank you for straight answer. I shall make that my reference point. It will definitely help moving forward if issue arise again in similar fashion.

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Depends who you compare yourself to when you say ''average dps''. If you're comparing yourself to low/no-KP pugs then it's not a good thing. If you compare yourself to statics and call yourself average, then chances are you're overqualified for that W4 run.

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I don't know. I rarely even see someone requiring good dps/bigs dps (and if they ask I guess they want someone that can pull 80%+ bench on the golem).

DPS almost never comes up in discussion unless a dps player rivals the healers for dps or we fail a boss due to lack of dps (and that almost never happens nowadays). For example, I can't even remember the last time an updraft was needed for gorse (which was rather common back in the days when pugging...).

I mean, I can hardly pull 70% bench on any of my classes but still feel comfortable to join any raid wing (including cms) and kill the boss without being carried.

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Finally tested my condi mech dps on raid hall golem.

Results was not impressive to say least. I have ascended cele acessorries and backpack. Full exotic viper armor and pistols. Runes: elementalist, sigils: +5% condi dmg and other Sigil of Doom.

Kit was Full signet with grenade, mech was in condi configuration.

Without buffs: about 10-12k

With buffs 21-23k

 

Snowcrows shows 38k. 

 

In context Rifle power resulted in about 15k with buffs.

Mace power was about 18k with buffs.

 

Ill continue to do tests, try to improve rotations (as easy as they are on Mech), but tbh idk whats the problem, maybe ping, maybe because I play with GFN.

 

Edited by Gendalfs.7521
Added info
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15-20k is average, anything above is good and so on. 10-15k is pushing it in my experience, people are more likely to put blame on you, even if the group wiped for other reasons.

But this also varies based on group expectations. If you are at 20k DPS in a 400LI group people will call your DPS poor.
 

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17 minutes ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Ill continue to do tests, try to improve rotations (as easy as they are on Mech),

 

The rotation seems to be not that easy as the first sentence on the SC page stats: Condition Mechanist is a very strong Condition Damage class that has a fairly high skill ceiling

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It depends radically on the group composition. For PUG groups, you'll be lucky to see most players doing 10k DPS, while in seasoned static groups you might see 30k+. Keep in mind this is real-world damage, not hitting a golem, which can range anywhere from 50%-90% of the golem benchmark due to mechanics.

 

There is no such thing as average DPS because every group is different. For example many raid groups don't even run modern Snowcrows builds, they run modified oldschool builds from closer to when raids were introduced because its what worked for them and has kept them clearing the content safely all these years, even though the damage levels are closer to what you would've seen during Heart of Thorns (about 5-10k lower on average).

 

Some groups enforce class stacking, and can reach absolutely insane damage levels by exploiting current issues with the game, such as pre-nerf Martial Cadence on Warrior. This is typically how speedruns are done.

 

As a general rule, <10k is low, 15-25k is average and 30-35k is high in actual fights, but every class, build and role will perform differently on each encounter. A good example to get a feel for average DPS is to play Power Rifle Machinist. If you're higher than this, its good, and if you're lower than this, its bad.

Edited by SoftFootpaws.9134
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2 hours ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Finally tested my condi mech dps on raid hall golem.

Results was not impressive to say least. I have ascended cele acessorries and backpack. Full exotic viper armor and pistols. Runes: elementalist, sigils: +5% condi dmg and other Sigil of Doom.

Kit was Full signet with grenade, mech was in condi configuration.

Without buffs: about 10-12k

With buffs 21-23k

 

Snowcrows shows 38k. 

 

In context Rifle power resulted in about 15k with buffs.

Mace power was about 18k with buffs.

 

Ill continue to do tests, try to improve rotations (as easy as they are on Mech), but tbh idk whats the problem, maybe ping, maybe because I play with GFN.

 

1. Make sure you've set up full boons on yourself.

2. Make sure you've set up full conditions of the golem.

3. Make sure you're animation-cancelling, not just following the rotation. There's a point where the skill starts to cast, then a point where it goes off, and then a lot of extra animation afterwards. You need to use another skill immediately after it goes off, and not wait for the whole animation to finish.

(You can practice this with gemshop gathering tools, they have the same thing going on. You should be able to move on from a harvesting node about halfway through the cast bar.)

 

The Celestial trinkets will bring your damage down by alot, because damage in this game is exponential. Even just going from high to medium condition damage will take away 30%+ of your damage, (combined with the loss of power) so that's where alot of your DPS is going.

Edited by SoftFootpaws.9134
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14 minutes ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

1. Make sure you've set up full boons on yourself.

2. Make sure you've set up full conditions of the golem.

3. Make sure you're animation-cancelling, not just following the rotation. There's a point where the skill starts to cast, then a point where it goes off, and then a lot of extra animation afterwards. You need to use another skill immediately after it goes off, and not wait for the whole animation to finish.

(You can practice this with gemshop gathering tools, they have the same thing going on. You should be able to move on from a harvesting node about halfway through the cast bar.)

 

The Celestial trinkets will bring your damage down by alot, because damage in this game is exponential. Even just going from high to medium condition damage will take away 30%+ of your damage, (combined with the loss of power) so that's where alot of your DPS is going.

Tnx, will make second ascended set just for condi then.

Need to learn about animation canceling.

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3 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

1. Make sure you've set up full boons on yourself.

2. Make sure you've set up full conditions of the golem.

There's an instruction on snowcrows on what they turn on for the dps tests and while it is a lot of condis/boons added to mimic squad comps, it is not just slapping "full conditions and full boons".

https://snowcrows.com/en/guides/starting-to-raid/special-forces-area

 

6 hours ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Finally tested my condi mech dps on raid hall golem.

Results was not impressive to say least. I have ascended cele acessorries and backpack. Full exotic viper armor and pistols. Runes: elementalist, sigils: +5% condi dmg and other Sigil of Doom.

Kit was Full signet with grenade, mech was in condi configuration.

Without buffs: about 10-12k

With buffs 21-23k

 

Snowcrows shows 38k. 

 

In context Rifle power resulted in about 15k with buffs.

Mace power was about 18k with buffs.

 

Ill continue to do tests, try to improve rotations (as easy as they are on Mech), but tbh idk whats the problem, maybe ping, maybe because I play with GFN.

Good job on finally using test zone. Use the above link to see how they set up the boons and condis for their dps tests.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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3 hours ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Tnx, will make second ascended set just for condi then.

That's a good first step. Don't expect to cover the entire difference though but 2-3k might be there.

Second, make sure to minimize gaps in your rotation. The most common mistake players make is not a wrong rotation (that too) but being slow on pressing buttons. Consider looking up a low intensity rotation/build first and go from there.

3 hours ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Need to learn about animation canceling.

No you don't. The step for looking and checking for animation cancelling is once you work on bridging the last 10% difference in dps. It is not needed for the majority of players.

I am not saying you shouldn't strive to improve. Working on animation cancelling is not your current step though at this large a discrepancy.

Edited by Cyninja.2954
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12 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

No you don't. The step for looking and checking for animation cancelling is once you work on bridging the last 10% difference in dps. It is not needed for the majority of players.

Tnx for that info. About slowly pressing buttons, that could be input lag from GFN.

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3 minutes ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Tnx for that info. About slowly pressing buttons, that could be input lag from GFN.

 

Absolutely, high latency will affect this. In case you haven't already, consider putting your mech F1-3 skills on autocast (you can still manually cast them faster than the script will, but this way they will go off at some point).

 

LI build with less interactions can also benefit from a more automatized and less input dependent output.

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