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Power Weaver vs Condi Weaver


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I need to choose a new ascended gear stat and I don't have EoD.  What is best for pug fractals or ibs strikes in terms of practical damage without dying?  I have only celestial ascended currently.
There also a power weaver build on hardstuck.gg for wvw, but it lists a weapon swap sigil, which I can't make sense of as ele can't swap...

Edited by Lorendyl Azoradaelas.5203
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I personally play power weaver in fractals, but I've seen condi weavers in fractals before. I think the cleave is a bit better for power weaver, but condi weaver is probably a little bit easier to survive with since you run earth traitline. You should note that either choice is still fragile, which is typical of any dps build for any class. Power is probably better for fractals specifically since you have a lot more burst.

I use the power weaver build on snowcrows, except I use two dragon pieces instead of full berserkers, and I use glyph of elemental harmony instead for the healing skill. https://snowcrows.com/en/builds/elementalist/weaver/power-weaver 

The reason I use two dragon pieces is because if you use full berserker's with fury (and you assume there is weakness on the enemy), you end up with over 100% crit chance, which is a waste of stats. I put dragon stats on sword and pants, which puts you at exactly 100% crit chance with fury and weakness. You also get a decent health bonus from the dragon stats. You end up with slightly less power, but more ferocity.

The build is still fine for fractals with full berserker's, you'll just have less health.


Btw, weapon swap sigils still work on ele; they activate on attunement swap instead of weapon swap. 

Edit:

You can also run hybrid weaver, which has a pretty even balance between power damage and condi damage. Slightly lower dps, but definitely still viable (and the rotation is fun since you use fresh air) https://snowcrows.com/en/builds/elementalist/weaver/hybrid-weaver

Edited by jcH.7109
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condi has more ranged capability over power, although both end up in melee range as sunspot and primordial stance have short range. power is also happens to be slightly more reliant on support and tends to fall apart where there is none/is poor. id say that if you think/know that you cant stay alive in melee range with ele, then aside from running with cm speedrunners theres little point going power for first if condi is available

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Overall recommend Power if you like it and know what you are doing. You can't go wrong that much with Condi if it's more enjoyable to you. Both are pretty viable.

 

Condi with Scepter is  more forgiving, yet Power will outshine in most Fractals and IBS Strikes. I also personally enjoy Power more since Weave Self was changed and freed us from FGS.

Only Frac where I run Condi Weaver is 100 and it's CM and only IBS Strike boss I prefer Condi over Power Weaver is Whisper of Jormag.

You can swap out Arcane Blast for Arcane Shield or Armor of Earth if you struggle to survive at the beginning or support is sleepy. In extreme scenarios you can also swap out Primordial Stance for another defensive Utility as well but in the long run I would recommend not give up more than Arcane Blast.

Also when doing Fractals regularly I recommend the Discretize Gear Setup (optimized for Fracs with ~150AR) rather than the Raid Setup as Weakness might not be covered in several scenarios and you won't crit cap. 


Edit: For Strikes/Raids you can indeed sprinkle in Dragon Pieces, especially with Jade Bot Core 10, to increase your vitality since you overcap crit a bit in full berserkers as long as you play with the Weakness Trait.
The DPS loss from a few Dragon Pieces is very marginal while a couple of extra HP can go a long way sometimes.

Edited by Mauti.3520
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To be honest I stop tried hard complexe rotations with elementalist ; I play hybrid weaver in fractal it has good burst, easy and forgiving rotation (air <> fire + fresh air) and i'm often top dps in pug scenarios... because it's easy and it ramps up quickly.
I guess it's perfect to learn about weaver, about mechanics in fractal/strike/raids and move to other builds with more confidence.

Edited by Zhaid Zhem.6508
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45 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

To be honest I stop tried hard complexe rotations with elementalist ; I play hybrid weaver in fractal it has good burst, easy and forgiving rotation (air <> fire + fresh air) and i'm often top dps in pug scenarios... because it's easy and it ramps up quickly.
I guess it's perfect to learn about weaver, about mechanics in fractal/strike/raids and move to other builds with more confidence.

If you think hybrid weaver is easy, I think you will find that power weaver is also easy. Just letting you know

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On 5/16/2023 at 5:17 PM, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

To be honest I stop tried hard complexe rotations with elementalist ; I play hybrid weaver in fractal it has good burst, easy and forgiving rotation (air <> fire + fresh air) and i'm often top dps in pug scenarios... because it's easy and it ramps up quickly.
I guess it's perfect to learn about weaver, about mechanics in fractal/strike/raids and move to other builds with more confidence.

I too like hybrid weaver since the focus in mainhand can bring out quite a good CC capability, and projectile destruction, while the offhand dagger air with powerweaver managed to kill me a couple of times in some raids. I'd say hybrid has a more complex rotation and a bit less dps than the powerweaver, but it feels more like Weaver is supposed to be played.

I should definately play it more often, most of the time i find myself either go full power with Catalyst or full condi with Scepter or Staff Weaver.

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if pve i prefer power weaver with fire + air, it keeps me at 25-30k dps without too much effort and its very engaging even tho it is quite vulnerable its really fun to play and it feels very rewarding to play it right.

i been playing condi bunker weaver for the most part ( wvw + pvp ) sd fire weaver and it is really fun too, sd fire weaver with cele stats ( condi fire based ) is like godmode in pve tho it has more like a 15-25k dps at max it really pays up in exchange of its barrier / sustain .

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WvW and PvP a lot. I tend to mostly stick to Fire for offense then Earth for defense. Occasionally will break out Air for the Focus related skills (Scepter Air skills are trash, imo). Hardly ever find myself using Water - its mostly because I've pressed the wrong button. LOL

Edited by pallas.8150
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Power is simply the way to go rn. We're currently in a massive power meta, making all condi builds relatively worse. The only places where condi outperforms power is very long bossfights without any phases, adds or other buffs to power. Apart from that the 2 main benefits from condi come from ranged dps & abit more surviveability. 

the biggest downside of condi weaver is its terrible access to CC. With quite some cc's being the difference between wipe or no wipe, playing cweaver can literally result in killing your whole group. 

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46 minutes ago, Lorendyl Azoradaelas.5203 said:

I don't understand the snowcrows rotation.  It does not align perfectly with cooldowns.  Are you supposed to fill in the wait for attunement with something else?  It does not say when to use arcane blast and primordial stance.

The most basic rotation is continuously swapping between air/air and fire/fire off cd. It consists of 2* chaining a couple skills. 1st chain is quantum strike->flame uprising->ride the lightning->pyro vortex. 2nd chain is cauterizing strike->ring of fire->fire grab->flame uprising. In between the chain attacks you try to slot in the most autoattack chains as possible. The air autoattack deals more dmge then the fire autoattack so the build tries to put as many skills into the fire/X attunement as possible. 

The timing on primordial and arcane blast doesn't matter to much. I use primordial stance on my opener in air/air for instant vulnerability and after that you want to preferably use it while in earth or fire since they provide a lillbit of extra burn/bleed dmge. The dps increase is very small however so don't worry about it to much. Same goes for arcane blast: ideally you want to cast it in a fire field for a projectile finisher, but the extra dps you get from it is very small. At the beginning id suggest to just use them off cd. 

For your glyph of storms you want to alternate between firestorm and lightning storm: Lightning storm when using weave self and fire storm when weave self is on cd only exception for this rule is when the boss is at low hp (and you can't get another storm in). In that case its always lightning storm. Make sure to cast it either immediately before or after the skill chaining to minimize disruption of the autoattacks. 

Weave self can be abit tricky sometimes since it heavily relies on good uptime on quickness/Alacrity, not getting cced and not having to dodge. Make sure to keep an eye out on your weave self on your buff bar. If you can't manage the full rotation for w/e reason, make sure to atleast get your perfect weave. If you need to swap from fire/air to water you go back towards air/air afterwards and if you need to swap from air/air to water you go to fire/fire after.

If you are struggling with the normal rotation id probably recommend to start with glyph of elementalist instead. Make sure you are attunement swapping off cd, properly chaining your skills and finishing your autoattack cycles before incorporating the weave self into it since that can cause some problems in the rotation once a while. 

Edited by the krytan assassin.9235
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On 5/14/2023 at 6:23 PM, jcH.7109 said:

I put dragon stats on sword and pants, which puts you at exactly 100% crit chance with fury and weakness.

Dragon requires EoD.  I ended up using marauder on the helm, shoulders, hands and feet and valkyrie amulet and Debility sigil (cost only 7s) instead of Impact.  Average strike damage is -3% while health is +17%.

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How is the guy in the snowcrows benchmark video getting 5k hit on the first lightning strike?  I'm only getting 3k.  The difference in his attributes while he is in water near the end is 3900, 88.42%, 252.8% versus my 3395, 83.3%, 242.8% with only console boons.  That means 22% average difference from attributes:
(3900*2.528) / (3395*(0.983*242.8))

Add the 3% from sigil and that only gets up to 25% while the actual difference is 66%.

Also, what is giving him health that high?  He has much more than me while I have vitality gear.

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2 hours ago, Lorendyl Azoradaelas.5203 said:

How is the guy in the snowcrows benchmark video getting 5k hit on the first lightning strike?  I'm only getting 3k.  The difference in his attributes while he is in water near the end is 3900, 88.42%, 252.8% versus my 3395, 83.3%, 242.8% with only console boons.  That means 22% average difference from attributes:
(3900*2.528) / (3395*(0.983*242.8))

Add the 3% from sigil and that only gets up to 25% while the actual difference is 66%.

Also, what is giving him health that high?  He has much more than me while I have vitality gear.

you could say i had fun trying to figure out how you got your stats

the easy to explain, high confidence differences (i.e. i know this is happening):

  • you dont seem to be running any food or enhancements (around +225 power, +70 fero for your setup)
  • you dont have full ascended gear
  • you dont have any infusions (+90 power)
  • you dont have a t10 jade bot (+235 vit)
  • it seems you checked your stats in water/water or water/earth, and not water/fire (+120 power). i guess its a good thing you didnt check in fire/air (+420 power, +120 fero) or air/x (+270 fero)

with just food + enchancements and checking in the correct attunement, you should have ~3740 power, 83.3% crit chance and 247.5% crit dmg. obviously you wont be able to exactly match stats because youve chosen to run maruader stats which have less total offensive stats than berserker

the harder, less confidence differences (i.e. im guessing this may be happening):

  • you dont have ascended weapons which make you hit 5% harder (on avg) with weapon skills
  • you may or may not have the reinforced armor buff (+5% hp)
  • the rotation is much funkier than it seems because the bencher precasts to get the elements of rage buff (+10% dmg) and the first lightning strike lands in fire/air vs air/air (anything in fire/x hits harder and fire/air is the hardest hitting attunement)
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3 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

you could say i had fun trying to figure out how you got your stats

To clarify, I got my power and crit multiplier in water because I didn't spot the small box on fire before and thought he was in water at that point in the video .  So now if I calculate the damage on the first lightning storm tick vs 2597 armor with the attributes for that:
Snowcrows
1074    (855+219)
2715    (1074*2.528)
Lorendi
990    (771+219)
2404    (990*2.428)

When he was casting it at the start his first tick is 5066 @ 0:07 while mine was only ~3,000 at most.  However I also missed before that he had console debuffs on the golem.  Now that I tried again with those the highest I got from several tries is 3,700, which still seems too far behind.  I'm guessing the Impact sigil only gives 3% against the golem.

 

4 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:
  • you dont have ascended weapons which make you hit 5% harder (on avg) with weapon skills
  • you may or may not have the reinforced armor buff (+5% hp)

The only not ascended are backpack and aqua gear.
His vitality is 297, so where is the extra 62 coming from after jade bot?  I don't know the 4 icons to the right of reinforced armor.

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3 hours ago, Lorendyl Azoradaelas.5203 said:

To clarify, I got my power and crit multiplier in water because I didn't spot the small box on fire before and thought he was in water at that point in the video .  So now if I calculate the damage on the first lightning storm tick vs 2597 armor with the attributes for that:
Snowcrows
1074    (855+219)
2715    (1074*2.528)
Lorendi
990    (771+219)
2404    (990*2.428)

this isnt how you calculate damage

before any modifiers, its (skill coeef) * (weapon strength) * (power) / (target armor). the "219" listed on wiki is a placeholder that is calculated with base power (1000) and unequipped weapon strength (690) against a target with 2597 armor. as a utility skill, lightning storm does use unequipped weapon strength, so we can keep that, but remember that its a range and not an exact number. for this calculation we will assume the hit lands in air/air (your stats change depending on your current attunement)

sc: 829 (0.825 * 690 * 3780 / 2597) | you: 744 (0.825 * 690 * 3395 / 2597)

something close to this number should actually appear in the ingame tooltip (when attuned to air/air). now getting crit dmg out of the way, before the fun bit:

sc: 2244 (829 * 2.7087) | you: 1942 (744 * 2.6107)

now for the fun bit dmg mods. mods that should be active at the time of hit:

  • vulnerability (25%)
  • stormsoul (10%)
  • swift revenge (15%)
  • elements of rage (10%)
  • woven air (weave self) (10%)
  • force sigil (5%)
  • impact sigil (3%)
  • scholar rune (5%)

sc: 4876 (2244 * 1.25 * 1.1 * 1.15 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.05 * 1.03 * 1.05). but because weapon stength range it can supposedly hit anywhere between 4636-5124

what you should be getting: 4098 (1942 * 1.25 * 1.1 * 1.15 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.05 * 1.05) or with range, 3896-4306. you may be missing a mod or two

Quote

His vitality is 297, so where is the extra 62 coming from after jade bot?  I don't know the 4 icons to the right of reinforced armor.

the reinforced buff grants +5% vitality. 1235 * 1.05 = 1297

1297 - 1235 = where the 62 is coming from

Edited by Noodle Ant.1605
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