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The Confusing Skill Split in Guild Wars 2: A Call for Comprehensive WvW Balance


Vekks.6013

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Dear WvW players,

I write today to address the persistent issue of skill split in Guild Wars 2, specifically in the context of World vs. World (WvW). While the intention behind splitting skill functionality between PvE, PvP, and WvW was well-meaning, it has led to confusion and frustration among players. Skills in WvW often perform differently, and some are severely weakened, leaving us feeling disheartened and unsure of our abilities.

I would like to commend ArenaNet for their recent efforts in rebalancing WvW, but I believe it is time to take a more thorough approach. We need a comprehensive balance patch that examines and aligns every profession and elite specialization, ensuring consistency and meaningful gameplay. No skill or trait should ever feel useless.

I encourage ArenaNet to develop this balance patch with a singular vision for WvW gameplay. By doing so, we can eliminate inconsistencies and create a unified experience. Let's examine each ability to ensure they make sense, fit the current philosophy, and offer a similar functionality across game modes. This will promote balance and prevent skills from feeling significantly weaker than others.

In conclusion, while the skill split was intended to promote fairness, it has caused confusion and weakened skills in WvW. I urge ArenaNet to deliver a comprehensive balance patch, considering every profession and elite specialization, aligning skill functionality, and fostering a cohesive vision for WvW gameplay. Together, we can enhance the enjoyment and competitiveness of WvW.

Thank you for your attention, and let's work together to bring positive change to Guild Wars 2.

Sincerely,

Vekks
Gold Raider, Sorrow's Furnace

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Okay, so you basically want to remove skill-splits. which would mean, using PvE-balance in WvW. which doesn´t work. 

You have to split the balance between PvE and PvP/WvW in order to be able to even remotely achieve something like "balance". Without splitting, it is literally impossible to balance anything in PvP/WvW. 

PvP/WvW-balance works entirely different compared to PvE-balance, one thing that is weak in PvE can become overpowered in WvW extremely quickly. This goes the other direction as well. you need to tune something down in WvW? congratulations, you just destroyed a build in PvE that didn´t need a nerf. 

In my opinion, it should be even more extreme. WvW-balance should be completely seperated from any PvE-changes. like... at all. This includes functionality of skills, if necessary. 

Idk, after every balance-patch, give everyone a popup that reminds them that skills have been changed and may work differently. Or especially a message that reminds you of the balance-split when you first enter PvP/WvW after a patch (or for the first time). 

EDIT: 
Example: 

imagine having no skill-splits between PvE and WvW.
Now, take Quickness-scrapper for example. Which version of "Gyroscopic Acceleration" will you pick now?

The Quickness-version? congratz, you completely reverted the needed change and just pumped up the healing from heal-scrapper, as well as the dps of every DPS-profession through the roof. (this was the initial reason why this trait was split, and changed in WvW in the first place)

The Might+Fury-version? congratulations, you just obliterated quickness-scrapper in PvE. 

Edited by Custodio.6134
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9 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Mirage two dodge when? 🤭🍿

Soon I hope! 😁

On a serious note, I'm aware that this is a major balancing concern. Ultimately the balancing should have been targeted on the ambush skills, or perhaps on a certain weapon sigil, rather than removing an entire dodge bar from an elite specialization! There is so much strange functionality changes like this that don't make sense and at this point. It all feels very patchwork style. I'm not at all suggesting that we remove the splits, but we need cohesion and for abilities to function at least similarly to the point that they can be recognized across game modes. Nothing worse than finding out that your biggest hitting ability is doing 2% of its PvE damage in WvW and has become your weakest ability. It doesn't have to be as strong as it is there, but it should still be one of your best buttons to press. In this case, for Mirage, you can't even press it, and that's a truly terrible feeling.

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38 minutes ago, Custodio.6134 said:

Okay, so you basically want to remove skill-splits. which would mean, using PvE-balance in WvW. which doesn´t work. 

You have to split the balance between PvE and PvP/WvW in order to be able to even remotely achieve something like "balance". Without splitting, it is literally impossible to balance anything in PvP/WvW. 

... Except you could remove skill splits and use WvW balancing in PvE. 

PvE has already gone from what, like 20k dps on the extreme end to 50k dps over the years? Maybe it's time to kitten knock it down a peg again.

Edited by Dawdler.8521
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5 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

... Except you could remove skill splits and use WvW balancing in PvE. 

PvE has already gone from what, like 20k dps on the extreme end to 50k dps over the years? Maybe it's time to kitten knock it down a peg again.

An excellent point! There was a time the split wasn't needed, because the PvE side was properly balanced.

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I suspect if there was no skill split, and WvW was used as the basis of balance, the result would just be radically different skill/weapon/other combos that are used in WvW vs PvE.

Of course, that is already the case, but no split would even make it worse.  And this is mostly because what one encounters in PvE tends to be a few really tough monsters, where WvW can have the case of 20 pretty tough opponents.

I suppose for roamers, what works for PvE might work for WvW, since that is a closer match.  But I doubt that is where most folks see the major problems with skill splits/balance.

 

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23 hours ago, Vekks.6013 said:

Dear WvW players,

I write today to address the persistent issue of skill split in Guild Wars 2, specifically in the context of World vs. World (WvW). While the intention behind splitting skill functionality between PvE, PvP, and WvW was well-meaning, it has led to confusion and frustration among players. Skills in WvW often perform differently, and some are severely weakened, leaving us feeling disheartened and unsure of our abilities.

I would like to commend ArenaNet for their recent efforts in rebalancing WvW, but I believe it is time to take a more thorough approach. We need a comprehensive balance patch that examines and aligns every profession and elite specialization, ensuring consistency and meaningful gameplay. No skill or trait should ever feel useless.

I encourage ArenaNet to develop this balance patch with a singular vision for WvW gameplay. By doing so, we can eliminate inconsistencies and create a unified experience. Let's examine each ability to ensure they make sense, fit the current philosophy, and offer a similar functionality across game modes. This will promote balance and prevent skills from feeling significantly weaker than others.

In conclusion, while the skill split was intended to promote fairness, it has caused confusion and weakened skills in WvW. I urge ArenaNet to deliver a comprehensive balance patch, considering every profession and elite specialization, aligning skill functionality, and fostering a cohesive vision for WvW gameplay. Together, we can enhance the enjoyment and competitiveness of WvW.

Thank you for your attention, and let's work together to bring positive change to Guild Wars 2.

Sincerely,

Vekks
Gold Raider, Sorrow's Furnace

oh boy....so...are we looking to have WvWers declare war on PvEers or sPvPers to go for both of WvWers and PvErs or that condo needs to go against CC and DPS versus support kind of thing?

I admit I am lazy. If I take my WvWers out to PvE I don't change builds or gear I just know it will play different. So I am not sure what you are asking for here. Are you saying just reduce all PvE skills to match WvW or sPvP? And if so, why bring this up in the WvW forum? As far as thorough they have taken years to address the Feb nerf bat patch and are still addressing it. Not sure of the time frame you are asking for here. June balance is stated to be a bigger one. Goals were stated at targeting points that allow more classes more roles, read that as you will but where one player will see something as balanced, odds are good another will see it as OP or UP so it's not an easy ask you have here.

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Outside of the original game, absolutely NO THOUGHT was given to SPvP/WvW when Anet added specializations with the HoT, PoF, and EoD expansions, hence the skill split "balancing" that is added in later. Anet caters to the PvE players and literally no one else, and they wanted to make the game easier for the PvE crowd, hence the severe powercreep, booncreep, etc. that left the PvP-based gamemodes so unbalanced today.

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Agreed with Ronin.

In 2014 or so, when they lost most of their original developers, and also made the decision to make HOT (and thus all the systems for it), they also completely stopped trying to balance the game around all modes. It just wasn't very visible until 2015, because they didn't really make that much changes until they released the build change update before HOT. EXCEPT for the Stability change in 2015-03-16, which further reinforce this.

The first two years, they actually balanced around PVP, and the other two modes basically had to deal with the balance they got from PVP. This was much healthier for the game than the PVE balance focus we got since 2015. One of the main advantages was that it held numbers in check, you couldn't let damage go over a certain point, limited by players health/defences.

Tldr: Hoping for any kind of WvW/PvP balance focus now is a pipe-dream. The 2020-02-25 patch is the closest we'll ever get.

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WvW shouldn't be balanced like it's PvE as someone said above. The Especs are too powerful for that now.

BUT! WvW also should not be balanced like it's PvP, which is what the Feb2020 patch tried to do and failed. This mode doesn't have the PvP gear system, and the numbers of players involved are on a completely different scale. 

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5 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

WvW shouldn't be balanced like it's PvE as someone said above. The Especs are too powerful for that now.

BUT! WvW also should not be balanced like it's PvP, which is what the Feb2020 patch tried to do and failed. This mode doesn't have the PvP gear system, and the numbers of players involved are on a completely different scale. 

Thus the problem of having 3 different modes in the same game. Balancing for each separately is probably more than 3x the amount of work (just for trying to tie the 3 modes together). Which means that:

A) The Management certainly doesn't want to throw money at that.
B) It would honestly work better to have each of the 3 modes be their own game with their own development teams.

It's unfortunately never going to happen in GW2.

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11 minutes ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

Thus the problem of having 3 different modes in the same game. Balancing for each separately is probably more than 3x the amount of work (just for trying to tie the 3 modes together). Which means that:

A) The Management certainly doesn't want to throw money at that.
B) It would honestly work better to have each of the 3 modes be their own game with their own development teams.

It's unfortunately never going to happen in GW2.

*Plays tiny violin* there are three modes. They deserve three distinct balances as the goals and gameplay in each is very different.

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