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Boons and stat combinations


Yogurt Goblin.5934

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Just a thought, but would like to get other people opinions on the following 2 things.

1 - Superspeed and invisibility should be treated as boons and be effected by boon duration. If  a thief or deadeye wants to be in constant invisibility while jumping in and out of combat, they should have to commit some boon stats to do so, and superspeed is obviously a better version of swiftness, so why not just have it be a boon like swiftness, keep the 10 sec cap but allow a single activater of superspeed do more.

With tying these to buffs to boon duration, Anet could have more control over how they effect the game, instead of just nerfing or buffing the duration of the effects, allow for some degree of control by the balance team and player to choose how much of each buff their character gets.

 

2- New stat combinations. I feel like we need a more extensive range of stat combinations, we have been getting fewer and fewer, and I think its time for gaps to be filled. Examples that come to mind are; Condition Harrier (Cond Dam, healing, boon duration), a dps healing combination (Power, Precision, Healing or Cond Dam, Con Duration, Healing), Condition Diviner (Cond Dam, Cond Duration, Boon Duration). It just feels weird to have a build set in my head, then go to check stat combinations and realise it can't be done, or I have to do some horrific frankenstein combination of stats.

My ideal situation, which I am fully aware will never happen as it would undermine the trading post, would be to allow player to actually hand pick their stat combinations, when you customise an item for the first time and chose its stats, have 2 major stat slots and 2 minor stat slots, and just pick what you want. If you leave the second major slot empty, your other 3 gets a buff to stats.

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1 hour ago, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

Also, it will give a real contra-play against perma-stealth crap.

changing stealth into a boon wil absolutely achieve nothing against perma-stealth. the result will only be, that instead of an effect, you now have to strip/corrupt an additional boon from an invisible target. while as result, any non-AoE (aka, any targeted) boonstrip/corrupt being unusable anyway. 

 

1 hour ago, Yogurt Goblin.5934 said:

I feel like we need a more extensive range of stat combinations

you want EVEN MORE stat-combos, out of which only a handful is already used anyway? WE ALREADY HAVE 48 DIFFERENT COMBOS!!!! and out of those 48, there´s basically only 8 that actually see common play (Berserker, Viper, Harrier, Minstrel, Trailblazer, Celestial, Marauder, Diviner), while the other 40 are either barely used, or literally never used at all. 

also, you already noticed, that you can always mix-and-match stats to achieve the same. love it or hate it, but you already have the option to build basically anything you want (note: even with different stat-combos, this doesn´t even guarantee that with for example a build using "Condition Diviner" in all slots, a boon-condition build will even work due to skills balancing)

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I think that might be better for the system if superspeed get removed from the game. Any player that aim an enhanced version of swiftness could rely on trait or equipment to get it.

About the stealth i agree with the op but with some adds:

1- It could be a boon but it's name could be Camouflage.

2- It could just end when the user successfully hits someone (no revealed effect would be applied).

3- As any boon, Camouflage could be corrupted/stripped.

4- For corruption/convertion purposes, the pair of the camouflage could be the already existing revealed (prevents from get camoulflaged).

5- Revealed could be cleansed as any boon or even converted into camouflage.

 

Some advantages for this approach are:

1- More fair and accessible way to deal with invisibility/revealed.

2- System healthy because interacts with boon/condition system.

Edited by Ze Ninguem.6708
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12 minutes ago, Ze Ninguem.6708 said:

About the stealth i agree with the op but with some adds:

1- It could be a boon but it's name could be Camouflage.

2- It could just end when the user successfully hits someone (no revealed effect would be applied).

3- As any boon, Camouflage could be corrupted/stripped.

4- For corruption/convertion purposes, the pair of the camouflage could be the already existing revealed (prevents from get camoulflaged).

5- Revealed could be cleansed as any boon or even converted into camouflage.

That would make stealth ridiculously broken, especially on thief (way more than even now).

Powerful effects like superspeed or stealth should never be turned into boons, because the way boons are extended and shared all across the board makes them more and more op. There is absolutely no need to further push into that direction. Unique effects are much easier to balance at this point.

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new stat combinations always bring alot of trouble to the balance team. Especially with power requiring 3 dps stats and some condi builds needing only 2 to get ~90% of their dps potential. I think almost all statt combinations currently are possible without giving access to the most broken stat combos (like condi dmg, dura, healing power, concentration) etc. 

If anything Anet should release some new runes/sigils, since they do a way better job at providing boosts in areas of the game that need some help and can even make use of class mechanics to specifically target a spec/build (like a precision/alac/willbender flames rune f.e. for the struggling position of alacbender. 

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The game definitely could use more stat comboes.  The first that comes to mind for me is a power version of a four stat with toughness.  They already have it in spvp it’s called demolisher.  
 

Either make it Power/toughness with minor precision/ferocity.  Or power/precision with minor toughness/ferocity.  
 

Cavalier is the only thing close but it lacks precision and is only three stats so you’re losing stats overall.  

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I think they need several 4 stat combos with vitality as a minor..  There are too many fragile classes with low base HP that if they want more people to play, need some vitality to give them a buffer.  

 

 

Edited by Logos.3042
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7 hours ago, Logos.3042 said:

I think they need several 4 stat combos with vitality as a minor..  There are too many fragile classes with low base HP that if they want more people to play, need some vitality to give them a buffer.  

 

 

They already have Marauder, Dragon, Ritualist, and Trailblazer….  Lots of vitality options for dps.  What other combinations did you have in mind?

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4 hours ago, Stx.4857 said:

They already have Marauder, Dragon, Ritualist, and Trailblazer….  Lots of vitality options for dps.  What other combinations did you have in mind?

I like marauder.  What I don’t like on ritualist is that it is a major stat.  The toughness on Trailblazer is not useful in some content types.

 

Im looking for 

condi, c duration, vit, precision, swap precision and c duration if too OP.

Condi, c duration, boon, vit

 

id also like to see Bringer stats changed to: Expertise>condi damg, vitality or precision

 

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for power builds marauder and dragon is absolutely perfect (for which i also usually recommend rune of the wurm), but i admit condition builds really lack some kind of pure vitality setup and have to rely on the toughness from trailblazer for any defense since bringer's is only used to cap the condition duration similar to how precision sets are used for power builds.

 

healing builds have the same problem, since for easy boon duration capping you're limited to harrier's or giver's and one has no defense while the other is toughness-based.

Edited by SoftFootpaws.9134
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On 5/19/2023 at 6:14 AM, Custodio.6134 said:

you want EVEN MORE stat-combos, out of which only a handful is already used anyway? WE ALREADY HAVE 48 DIFFERENT COMBOS!!!! and out of those 48, there´s basically only 8 that actually see common play (Berserker, Viper, Harrier, Minstrel, Trailblazer, Celestial, Marauder, Diviner), while the other 40 are either barely used, or literally never used at all. 

You forgot Dragon's (DH), Plaguedoctors' (Scourge), Commander's (Boon Thief Tank), Ritualists (Alac DPS Spectre). But I totally agree with the idea put forward. 

Forgot to add Rampager's (Condi Virtuoso), Giver's (Druid), Sinister (uncommon mixer stat), Grieving (Cond Alac Tempest) and Assassins (many power dps builds) which are commonly used for mixing stat adjustments. 

I can see why Magi would be used as well, maybe in the next patch heal thief might use Magi.

Edited by xellink.7568
added other stat combos as examples
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On 5/18/2023 at 5:14 PM, Custodio.6134 said:

changing stealth into a boon wil absolutely achieve nothing against perma-stealth. the result will only be, that instead of an effect, you now have to strip/corrupt an additional boon from an invisible target. while as result, any non-AoE (aka, any targeted) boonstrip/corrupt being unusable anyway. 

 

you want EVEN MORE stat-combos, out of which only a handful is already used anyway? WE ALREADY HAVE 48 DIFFERENT COMBOS!!!! and out of those 48, there´s basically only 8 that actually see common play (Berserker, Viper, Harrier, Minstrel, Trailblazer, Celestial, Marauder, Diviner), while the other 40 are either barely used, or literally never used at all. 

also, you already noticed, that you can always mix-and-match stats to achieve the same. love it or hate it, but you already have the option to build basically anything you want (note: even with different stat-combos, this doesn´t even guarantee that with for example a build using "Condition Diviner" in all slots, a boon-condition build will even work due to skills balancing)

i didn't notice this post earlier so my response is a bit late, but..

 

i'm confused by you saying  "we have too many stat combinations" while you also talk about how we mix and match those stat combinations, which are conflicting points.

 

almost all stat combinations in the game are used, its just that some of them are only used as filler to round out your stats. for some reason players are expected to use full sets of every stat, and not even berserker's is used as a full set alot of the time since many classes can't crit-cap on pure berserker's gear.

 

for example, you don't list commander's gear, even though its the only stat you can combine with diviner's to get both 100% crit rate and boon duration at the same time, having precision as a main stat. you also list minstrel's but not giver's, even though minstrel's can't actually cap boon duration on most builds and you need to take at least some degree of giver's instead of harrier's or you won't be able to pull aggro in raids.

 

interestingly you also omit dragon's gear, even though its mostly surplanted marauder's in many builds and marauder's is only used sparingly to, once again, crit-cap.

 

there's many other similar, sometimes niche uses for every stat combination, especially in wvw. they're all very important though, and if anything we need more stat combinations, runes, sigils, food, etc. instead of less as this enables more efficient buildcraft.

Edited by SoftFootpaws.9134
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On 5/18/2023 at 11:14 PM, Custodio.6134 said:

also, you already noticed, that you can always mix-and-match stats to achieve the same. love it or hate it, but you already have the option to build basically anything you want (note: even with different stat-combos, this doesn´t even guarantee that with for example a build using "Condition Diviner" in all slots, a boon-condition build will even work due to skills balancing)

Except for the fact that if I wanted to build any of the stat combinations I listed using the "frankenstein" method, I will have so much wasted stats that I had to just accept as part of my build because the just so happen to come with the stat comibination i have to use.

On 5/18/2023 at 11:14 PM, Custodio.6134 said:

you want EVEN MORE stat-combos, out of which only a handful is already used anyway? WE ALREADY HAVE 48 DIFFERENT COMBOS!!!! and out of those 48, there´s basically only 8 that actually see common play (Berserker, Viper, Harrier, Minstrel, Trailblazer, Celestial, Marauder, Diviner), while the other 40 are either barely used, or literally never used at all.

So only 8 get used, I suggest more be made to allow people to play more varieties of builds in the game, and you object? Yeah sure the dps ones might not change, berserker and viper are just the best stat combinations for those builds even if you could choose the stats you wanted, but maybe ever other build also deserves to have the best option possible? 

If they added more stat combinations to the game, it would be alot of work for the staff to impliment it, but what consequence do it have to you for there to be more stats combos? if you want to keep using berserker, go for it.

On 5/18/2023 at 11:14 PM, Custodio.6134 said:

changing stealth into a boon wil absolutely achieve nothing against perma-stealth. the result will only be, that instead of an effect, you now have to strip/corrupt an additional boon from an invisible target. while as result, any non-AoE (aka, any targeted) boonstrip/corrupt being unusable anyway.

If you read it properly, I want to make it so perma-stealth comes with a cost, deadeyes get it for free for no reason what so ever, if a druid wants to heal it has to take healing power, if a firebrand wants to burn it has to take condition damage and duration, thief so be no different.

And so you want to keep it as it where there is 10 skills across only 6 class that can reveal, instead of that many skills plus all aoe boon rip/corruption skills, and you think the outcome would be the same? that just not the case.

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On 5/21/2023 at 3:32 AM, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

new stat combinations always bring alot of trouble to the balance team. Especially with power requiring 3 dps stats and some condi builds needing only 2 to get ~90% of their dps potential. I think almost all statt combinations currently are possible without giving access to the most broken stat combos (like condi dmg, dura, healing power, concentration) etc. 

If anything Anet should release some new runes/sigils, since they do a way better job at providing boosts in areas of the game that need some help and can even make use of class mechanics to specifically target a spec/build (like a precision/alac/willbender flames rune f.e. for the struggling position of alacbender. 

I definitely understand that there will be some builds that might need balancing, and the most broken stat combo would be the one you stated, but I can only really think of qhfb using it and then their healing and quickness might not be enough.

Though I 100% agree we need more runes and sigils, they are even more restricting, for runes to have the right major stat, minor stat and elite effect for you build is pretty rare.

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On 5/20/2023 at 7:35 PM, Zyreva.1078 said:

That would make stealth ridiculously broken, especially on thief (way more than even now).

Powerful effects like superspeed or stealth should never be turned into boons, because the way boons are extended and shared all across the board makes them more and more op. There is absolutely no need to further push into that direction. Unique effects are much easier to balance at this point.

Sorry could you just clarify the bit about "shared all across the board"? How many affects are there that share your boons to everyone around you?

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For stat sets, one of the ones I thought of are debuffer stats.  Power/Precision main, ferocity and condition duration minor.  There's many conditions in this game that aren't damaging, but there's no set that raises condition duration without also being dedicated to condi damage.  Sometimes you want to stack weakness/vulnerability/immobilize/taunt/fear without having to always play a condition set, so something like Debuffer stats would be great.  90% of the damage output of berserker, but with 42% increased condition duration on all conditions.  

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18 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

The question is more which boons are not shared with other players ... Most boon applications are aoe by now.

So obviously they would keep the stealth boon as single application, which would entire avoid this problem. Not including the mass stealth from certain elites, they can keep that way as they are elite skills.

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13 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

For stat sets, one of the ones I thought of are debuffer stats.  Power/Precision main, ferocity and condition duration minor.  There's many conditions in this game that aren't damaging, but there's no set that raises condition duration without also being dedicated to condi damage.  Sometimes you want to stack weakness/vulnerability/immobilize/taunt/fear without having to always play a condition set, so something like Debuffer stats would be great.  90% of the damage output of berserker, but with 42% increased condition duration on all conditions.  

Exactly, this is a perfect idea of the types of builds missing, there is just no way to do it without extending the selection of stat combinations.

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On 5/28/2023 at 7:31 PM, Yogurt Goblin.5934 said:

So obviously they would keep the stealth boon as single application, which would entire avoid this problem.

You mean like the other unique effects that got turned into boons? Oh wait ...

Also boon share isn't the only problem with your proposal.

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