Replacing mesmer with a Reaper as my main was the right decision.

[Nabbut.7480]

Just got to LS04E01 and I cannot possibly imagine how I could possibly slaughter through (and survive) all that game was throwing on me with my mesmer without playing in a group or many, many checkpoint runs. Reaper? Nearly infinite sustain plus Press a Button and Everything [around] Dies. Used a tweaked Lord Hizen's Celestial hybrid damage build (replaced signets with shouts for more area debuffs when out of the shroud and dual-traited fear to keep fury up along with Fireworks runes) and it went quite smoothly.

[Dadnir.5038]

Granted that reaper's damage output has gradually been almost doubled (from 25k dps to 40k dps) since it's release in 2015, I'd say that it's not really surprising that you have this kind of impression of the e-spec in 2023.

[xlion.3065]

[deleted]

Edited October 29, 2023 by xlion.3065

[Moradorin.6217]

3 minutes ago, xlion.3065 said:

But isn't Mirage along with Reaper and Mechanist also "Legendary Tier" according to Lord Hizen's current tier list video?

People like to place Mirage high on tier lists for many reasons. One is its popular to over-rate Mirage because allot of popular streamers like maintaining this perception because it pleases the Anet Dev team IMO. It pleases them because they put allot of work into keeping Mirage strong in pve while also keeping it weak/limited in pvp/wvw because people dont like dealing with the clones, etc in pvp/wvw. Granted, its not that Mirage in perfect hands played perfectly cannot do well. Rather, its that Reaper is usually very easy and forgiving to play and get good numbers. Most specs (not just reaper) you can tweak rotations and basically hit good numbers still. The acceptions are when a utility skill is in the rotation or other skills that u hit before your big damage skill due to a damage boost which is also not complicated to understand and do. On the other hand, Mirage has allot of strange timing issues due to the length of certain skill animations + MC window time and how MC is activated + the need for Mirage to be in certain placed around the boss or to get mirrors and also will need to keep facing the target during any of that. Otherwise, the damage on Mirage can go from legendary to meh. Meanwhile, the reaper will still have tons of burst.

 

Also Mirage pve builds tend to ramp up damage while Reaper is huge burst. So in general pve I would say the reaper would be much easier, faster and smoother. The mirage can retune its build and weapon choice to become able to solo champs. That said, so can a necro and either way the necro will have MUCH easier builds that will tend to perform better in average players hands.

 

IMO Mirage is really not worth bothering with at this point unless you just love the theme. Granted I know staff Mirage can be super easy its just much slower compared and falls apart when you cannot keep clones alive.

 

I would think these are the kinda reasons the OP moved to reaper and is happy. I would never really pay attention to those tier lists. They are heavily bias.

[Fueki.4753]

I prefer my Chronomancer over Reaper any day.

Greatsword being ranged helps me survive a lot longer on my Mesmer than on my Reaper in melee.

[xlion.3065]

On 5/22/2023 at 2:29 PM, Moradorin.6217 said:

[deleted]

[deleted]

Edited October 29, 2023 by xlion.3065

[AliamRationem.5172]

7 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

People like to place Mirage high on tier lists for many reasons. One is its popular to over-rate Mirage because allot of popular streamers like maintaining this perception because it pleases the Anet Dev team IMO. It pleases them because they put allot of work into keeping Mirage strong in pve while also keeping it weak/limited in pvp/wvw because people dont like dealing with the clones, etc in pvp/wvw. Granted, its not that Mirage in perfect hands played perfectly cannot do well. Rather, its that Reaper is usually very easy and forgiving to play and get good numbers. Most specs (not just reaper) you can tweak rotations and basically hit good numbers still. The acceptions are when a utility skill is in the rotation or other skills that u hit before your big damage skill due to a damage boost which is also not complicated to understand and do. On the other hand, Mirage has allot of strange timing issues due to the length of certain skill animations + MC window time and how MC is activated + the need for Mirage to be in certain placed around the boss or to get mirrors and also will need to keep facing the target during any of that. Otherwise, the damage on Mirage can go from legendary to meh. Meanwhile, the reaper will still have tons of burst.

 

Also Mirage pve builds tend to ramp up damage while Reaper is huge burst. So in general pve I would say the reaper would be much easier, faster and smoother. The mirage can retune its build and weapon choice to become able to solo champs. That said, so can a necro and either way the necro will have MUCH easier builds that will tend to perform better in average players hands.

 

IMO Mirage is really not worth bothering with at this point unless you just love the theme. Granted I know staff Mirage can be super easy its just much slower compared and falls apart when you cannot keep clones alive.

 

I would think these are the kinda reasons the OP moved to reaper and is happy. I would never really pay attention to those tier lists. They are heavily bias.

LoLwut?  Mirage is a popular pick for solo play because it is insanely good at it.  The ability to dodge any time you want even while stunned or performing other actions is incredibly powerful.  That you actually increase your damage in the bargain while also spawning clones that can peel for you just sweetens the deal.  It also has great boon access.

[Sobx.1758]

9 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

People like to place Mirage high on tier lists for many reasons. One is its popular to over-rate Mirage because allot of popular streamers like maintaining this perception because it pleases the Anet Dev team IMO.

No, it's because it's a pretty strong and fairly easy spec to play solo.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Buran.3796]

19 hours ago, SpiderZ.9146 said:

Just got to LS04E01 and I cannot possibly imagine how I could possibly slaughter through (and survive) all that game was throwing on me with my mesmer without playing in a group or many, many checkpoint runs.

   Hizen's celestial Mirage soloed all the legendary bounties in the game using a single weapon (double staff) and spamming evading. The build is both convenient (can fight at any range, has clones to tank and distract, has tons of defensive tools and more than decent damage) and extremely easy to play.

   Reaper is a great spec (my fav from Necro), but is mainly mele and while easy to play, is not as "low effort" as Mirage. I main neither of them and have no opinion in this particular vs, but sounds weird to me that you think that Mesmer has problems soloing things at PvE when has been in the god tier status for a while at that.

[Serephen.3420]

Careful, reaper is currently a bit overtuned for its realtive ease of use. So it is likely to get toned down a bit in June, probably not as much as mech was but more than catalyst. 

[Moradorin.6217]

15 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

LoLwut?  Mirage is a popular pick for solo play because it is insanely good at it.  The ability to dodge any time you want even while stunned or performing other actions is incredibly powerful.  That you actually increase your damage in the bargain while also spawning clones that can peel for you just sweetens the deal.  It also has great boon access.

 

17 hours ago, xlion.3065 said:

What?

Obviously those tier lists are somewhat subjective, e. g. they depend on player skill and preferences, but (Celestial) Staff Mirage is undeniably a very easy to play Open World build with decent enough damage and sustain to beat all single player PvE content with ease. Not to mention "actual  Open World content" (including public instances like "Battle for LA", "Forged Steel" and "Nightmare Tower") where you can bring 2++ hours of Offensive/Defensive Protocol and therefore (pretty much always) have all boons in the game without your build even needing to provide them.

To both of you I would say I 100% stick to what I said about Mirage vs reaper. You are not really directly addressing anything I specified about why I feel one is better than the other for the specific tasks I mentioned. You are making generalizations that literally ignore everthing I specified. In other words, you are not responding to what I said, you are only responding to my claim that reaper is better burts and therefore stronger in general pve for average payers. Cele staff is a thing that shouldnt exsist because its all from bad balance inthe first place thanks to CMC. Its pepega.

 

That said, even staff sucks compared to just being able to almost instantly cleave down everything in pve instances and typical OW compared to waiting for the projectiles to start to bounce and clones to get made and condi stacks to build so things start to die off gradually. Reaper is gona be WAY faster and simpler. The alternate is gona be axe or power which I eluded to when I mentioned axe specifically when comparing reaper since reaper is all about quick burst and cc/chill most of the time. Also I litterally said Mirage was a good pick to solo champs. That doesnt make it good general pve compared to a Necro or better. Nexro is gona be far easier for the average player to do ALL things. Mirage will good for avg player to play pepega staff....only

21 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I prefer my Chronomancer over Reaper any day.

Greatsword being ranged helps me survive a lot longer on my Mesmer than on my Reaper in melee.

GS on Mirage is NOT mele its range non-projetile and can be very handy for light show tagging during events. Its a decent option, but u cannot solo a champ well w a GS on mes. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Moradorin.6217

[AliamRationem.5172]

47 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

 

To both of you I would say I 100% stick to what I said about Mirage vs reaper. You are not really directly addressing anything I specified about why I feel one is better than the other for the specific tasks I mentioned. You are making generalizations that literally ignore everthing I specified. In other words, you are not responding to what I said, you are only responding to my claim that reaper is better burts and therefore stronger in general pve for average payers. Cele staff is a thing that shouldnt exsist because its all from bad balance inthe first place thanks to CMC. Its pepega.

 

That said, even staff sucks compared to just being able to almost instantly cleave down everything in pve instances and typical OW compared to waiting for the projectiles to start to bounce and clones to get made and condi stacks to build so things start to die off gradually. Reaper is gona be WAY faster and simpler. The alternate is gona be axe or power which I eluded to when I mentioned axe specifically when comparing reaper since reaper is all about quick burst and cc/chill most of the time. Also I litterally said Mirage was a good pick to solo champs. That doesnt make it good general pve compared to a Necro or better. Nexro is gona be far easier for the average player to do ALL things. Mirage will good for avg player to play pepega staff....only

GS on Mirage is NOT mele its range non-projetile and can be very handy for light show tagging during events. Its a decent option, but u cannot solo a champ well w a GS on mes. 

You also said a bunch of nonsense about people simping for ANet.  Reaper has burst.  That's literally it.  Not everyone cares about clearing trash in 2 seconds rather than 4.  They'll take a build like staxe mirage that can survive anything over reaper, which can burst trash but will fall flat on its face if you don't know what you're doing against a champ and in anything really difficult mirage is straight up better. 

As for simple to play?  I don't know what you're on about.  If you can spam dodge and 1 you will win in open world with staff mirage.  It is probably the second easiest build you can pick for players who want ez mode (mechanist being the first, obviously).

[apharma.3741]

On 5/22/2023 at 1:12 PM, xlion.3065 said:

But isn't Mirage along with Reaper and Mechanist also "Legendary Tier" according to Lord Hizen's current tier list video?

It's worth paying attention to how Hizen rates the builds and what specifically his goals are, open world mainly achievement objectives which tend to focus more on events and big damage sponge targets like bounties and champions. To get the highest ranking a class has to be able to:
DPS.
Self heal.
Self buff.
Sustain this.
This is why mirage is legendary along with reaper and mechanist.
What it does not account for is cleave or ability to plough through mobs, especially in story content or big meta chains which are designed to be done by lots of people where the champion might take 20 mins and a ton of mobs to get to. A reaper will be a lot better here as it has a wealth of AoE high damage and cleave especially in reaper shroud while great for champions. Mechanist and mirage would be less effective here due to condition focus and ramp up of time, they're still good it's just reaper really is in a class of it's own across the breadth of open world, living world, meta chains and story instances.

[xlion.3065]

On 5/25/2023 at 2:16 PM, apharma.3741 said:

[deleted]

[deleted]

Edited October 29, 2023 by xlion.3065

[Moradorin.6217]

2 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

It's worth paying attention to how Hizen rates the builds and what specifically his goals are, open world mainly achievement objectives which tend to focus more on events and big damage sponge targets like bounties and champions. To get the highest ranking a class has to be able to:
DPS.
Self heal.
Self buff.
Sustain this.
This is why mirage is legendary along with reaper and mechanist.
What it does not account for is cleave or ability to plough through mobs, especially in story content or big meta chains which are designed to be done by lots of people where the champion might take 20 mins and a ton of mobs to get to. A reaper will be a lot better here as it has a wealth of AoE high damage and cleave especially in reaper shroud while great for champions. Mechanist and mirage would be less effective here due to condition focus and ramp up of time, they're still good it's just reaper really is in a class of it's own across the breadth of open world, living world, meta chains and story instances.

Thanks. I like the way you put it. Thats what I was thinking is why the OP is liking Reaper better also. As I said in my other post in this thread. The forums and streaming community is very bent on maintaining nerfs on Mesmer due in a large part to bias that is apparent in some of the other responses. Like when people talk about being able to dodge while stuned as if thats a large consideration for a person just looking for smooth pve play vs just cleaving everything BEFORE they can CC u in the first place.... Its just obvious how much bias is present.

[Moradorin.6217]

1 hour ago, xlion.3065 said:

Yep, and OP was struggling with (single player) Living World (story) content where exactly this matters.

Meaning he needed nice cleave and the functionality of Reaper as I said. TYVM! Some people are very bias and just look for another chance to bash Mesmer every time its mentioned. ty for not doing that.

[AliamRationem.5172]

16 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

Meaning he needed nice cleave and the functionality of Reaper as I said. TYVM! Some people are very bias and just look for another chance to bash Mesmer every time its mentioned. ty for not doing that.

So pointing out the advantages of mirage and why it's a popular pick for easy solo play is "bashing" mesmer and is really just a means of attempting to get it nerfed.  Oh, and also it pleases the ANet dev team who are big fans of mesmer because they put work into designing it (and apparently not all the other specs?).  That's a unique thought process you have there!

[Roadkizzle.2157]

On 5/22/2023 at 9:58 AM, Fueki.4753 said:

I prefer my Chronomancer over Reaper any day.

Greatsword being ranged helps me survive a lot longer on my Mesmer than on my Reaper in melee.

How do you survive with Chrono Greatsword?

You don't have a single healing ability because your heal slot is just a DPS boost and not really a heal anymore.

I'd take the sustain, health pool, damage reduction, and possible minion distractions of the Reaper over the squishy range of the Chrono Greatsword.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Roadkizzle.2157

[Moradorin.6217]

4 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

So pointing out the advantages of mirage and why it's a popular pick for easy solo play is "bashing" mesmer and is really just a means of attempting to get it nerfed.  Oh, and also it pleases the ANet dev team who are big fans of mesmer because they put work into designing it (and apparently not all the other specs?).  That's a unique thought process you have there!

The tone of your post and others IMO is meant to imply that the OP is wrong for choosing Reaper and that he should use Mesmer and that my agreeing that reaper can be better, especially, for a possible new player are also wrong. You gloss over all the actual points made and just try to imply the other view is baseless. That is for sure what I would say sounds bias. I duno what you are prattling on about...

 

TBH I dont play much pve outside instanced things like raids/strikes if I play at all anymore. I mained many specs but spent more time on Mesmer than the rest. That said, when I do play these days I usually choose thief, rev or engi (not mech) some times necro or ranger too. Mesmer is my last choice of them all. Granted I have full legendary on all of them so I can setup any build I like which not everyone can do.

I dont respond to posts like this based on my personal preference at all. I responded because the OP made a seemingly honest post about Reaper and how they are enjoying it vs when they had been trying the same content (pve) with a Mesmer and everyone that was responding was kinda either trolling him or bashing him for saying he liked reaper over Mesmer. THAT is mostly why I responded and what I said reflects that perspective. It also reflects my awareness of the common bias here about anything that is not claiming that Mesmer is somehow OP and BIS for all things. That is reflected when I say as much and also when I mention that Mirage and Mesmer can be very strong for many things like soloing a champ and certain types of content. IMO your responses and all the confused and laughs on the OP, my response, as well as, Apharma's & Xlion's posts.

Its sadly what I expected to happen to this persons thread..

Edited May 25, 2023 by Moradorin.6217

[Fueki.4753]

17 minutes ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

How do you survive with Chrono Greatsword?

You don't have a single healing ability because your heal slot is just a DPS boost and not really a heal anymore.

I'd take the sustain, health pool, damage reduction, and possible minion distractions of the Reaper over the squishy range of the Chrono Greatsword.

For the content I play on my Chronomancer (mostly story and WvW dailies), I don't need to rely on extensive amounts of sustain. Having full Marauder gear is enough for me. And the range helps me to deal better with mechanics like the needlessly high AoE vomit that many bosses have.

[AliamRationem.5172]

23 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

The tone of your post and others IMO is meant to imply that the OP is wrong for choosing Reaper and that he should use Mesmer and that my agreeing that reaper can be better, especially, for a possible new player are also wrong. You gloss over all the actual points made and just try to imply the other view is baseless. That is for sure what I would say sounds bias. I duno what you are prattling on about...

 

TBH I dont play much pve outside instanced things like raids/strikes if I play at all anymore. I mained many specs but spent more time on Mesmer than the rest. That said, when I do play these days I usually choose thief, rev or engi (not mech) some times necro or ranger too. Mesmer is my last choice of them all. Granted I have full legendary on all of them so I can setup any build I like which not everyone can do.

I dont respond to posts like this based on my personal preference at all. I responded because the OP made a seemingly honest post about Reaper and how they are enjoying it vs when they had been trying the same content (pve) with a Mesmer and everyone that was responding was kinda either trolling him or bashing him for saying he liked reaper over Mesmer. THAT is mostly why I responded and what I said reflects that perspective. It also reflects my awareness of the common bias here about anything that is not claiming that Mesmer is somehow OP and BIS for all things. That is reflected when I say as much and also when I mention that Mirage and Mesmer can be very strong for many things like soloing a champ and certain types of content. IMO your responses and all the confused and laughs on the OP, my response, as well as, Apharma's & Xlion's posts.

Its sadly what I expected to happen to this persons thread..

I think Hizen's tier list is pretty accurate if you're a player struggling with open world/story content.  You're the one who decided you needed to jump in and obfuscate the issue because you're apparently afraid ANet will nerf mesmer if you don't, all while making the insulting and ridiculous accusation of simping for ANet if you say mesmer is good.  Maybe work on those communication skills, chief?  

And no, you didn't jump in because the OP was being bashed.  One person responded pointing out that reaper had been buffed, in agreement with the idea that reaper was a good pick.  Another shared Hizen's tier list, pointing out that both mirage and reaper are top tier according to Hizen.  That's when you went bananas.  So, don't pretend you're some kind of hero here. 

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

The tone of your post and others IMO is meant to imply that the OP is wrong for choosing Reaper and that he should use Mesmer and that my agreeing that reaper can be better, especially, for a possible new player are also wrong.

You... literally started with this right away:

On 5/22/2023 at 2:29 PM, Moradorin.6217 said:

People like to place Mirage high on tier lists for many reasons. One is its popular to over-rate Mirage because allot of popular streamers like maintaining this perception because it pleases the Anet Dev team IMO.

In an attempt to dismiss strengths, safety and simplicity of builds mirage has available and now you try claiming people somehow attack OP, you or class itself. How about people like to put mirage high on the list because... that's where it belongs?

Edited May 25, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[xlion.3065]

[deleted]

Edited October 29, 2023 by xlion.3065

[Moradorin.6217]

1 hour ago, xlion.3065 said:

I'm honestly surprised how this topic is derailing.

When I pointed out that Mirage is also in Lord Hizen's Legendary Open World Tier, I did so, because I was genuinely wondering, why OP chose to switch to a different profession instead of just (a) different build/gear (assuming that he wasn't already running a Celestial Staff Mirage). We still don't know.

I'm kinda "maining" Necromancer since launch with most of it played as Power Reaper.  But as an Altoholic with 2x9 level 80 characters (all professions) on two accounts with at least 18 actively played Open World builds I have a bit of experience in this matter, e. g. I quite recently played those 18 characters through EoD story until at least Kaineng incl. Seitung and Kaineng Map Completion on most of them.

My personal tier list would not be 100% identical to Lord Hizen's (most likely because he is a much better player than me), but I fully agree on the top tier. For the more difficult single player content I could even order the top tier as "Mechanist > Mirage > Reaper", i. e. when I'm struggling on other builds or just want to "brute force" it, I'm getting my Mechanist to do it, e. g. solo the 2 missing Ambushes in Gyala Delve to get the achievement.

Reaper is really great and a lot of fun, but compared to Mechanist and Mirage it's kinda "all-in" mode. Either everything is dead or my Reaper is.

P. S.: I call my Mechanist my "Cleaner" (think Kathryn Nemec in Blacklist)

My guess based onyhe OPs message remains the same. I think he opted to play Reaper because its simpler to operate and has awsome cleave/dps and cc. Mesmer is good in the right hands, sure. No one was trying to debate that. That said, Mesmer has many layers of complexity compared to reaper. Reaper you have shroud or not shroud and hit keys. Mesmer you have generate clones, which shatter when, what is the rotation and missed rotation = crap damage usually and maybe u also die easy on mesmer when you arent familiar with how it all works and how to time all of that. IMO reaper is dirt simple compared. As I said. It also has better cleave aka faster damage in general pve which I think is what the OP was talking about. As to why its derailing its because people are bias against mesmer and even mentioning its not the best in show for all things tends to get this type of response. Cause why? IMO bias.

[AliamRationem.5172]

4 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

My guess based onyhe OPs message remains the same. I think he opted to play Reaper because its simpler to operate and has awsome cleave/dps and cc. Mesmer is good in the right hands, sure. No one was trying to debate that. That said, Mesmer has many layers of complexity compared to reaper. Reaper you have shroud or not shroud and hit keys. Mesmer you have generate clones, which shatter when, what is the rotation and missed rotation = crap damage usually and maybe u also die easy on mesmer when you arent familiar with how it all works and how to time all of that. IMO reaper is dirt simple compared. As I said. It also has better cleave aka faster damage in general pve which I think is what the OP was talking about. As to why its derailing its because people are bias against mesmer and even mentioning its not the best in show for all things tends to get this type of response. Cause why? IMO bias.

Or because you're antagonistic and then try to play the victim when called on your nonsense. Quit trolling.