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Quickness Berserker without Banners proposal.


HeliosMagi.9867

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Simply change 1 trait (and buff another to compensate for the original's loss)

Last Blaze changed to Aura of Rage:

While in Berserk mode, pulse boons to yourself and nearby allies. Boons: Quickness, Fury, Might.

This would allow Berserker to be a Quickness provider just by doing its normal rotation, and ideally the base duration of these boons should be such that 100% uptime of them should be possibly with a moderate investment into Boon Duration. Would also make it great for Solo builds, since self-providing Quickness is kind of a pain, and Berserker without Quickness just doesn't feel right to me.

As a side note, Heat of the Soul should be buffed to include an effect that inflicts burning on critical hits, to compensate for the loss of Last Blaze on condi builds and to make condi builds synergize further with Smash Brawler.

 

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I'd rather see both heat of Soul and Last Blaze buffed in the condition departed. And if they ever got merged, the hole should be filled with a new condition-based trait, rather than yet another trait that interacts with Berserk mode.

Quickness pulses can go to Eternal Champion (replacing the Berserk mode exit, which needs to be baseline) or Bloody Roar. a roar is a type of shout, so it makes sense that the trait resembles Shouts a bit in functionality.

But even if Quickness is pulsing in Berserk mode, all you did was changing the utilities from Banners to Rage skills (to extend berserk uptime and thus the pulses). I don't think that solves any issue. And to make up for the Quickness pulses, the Rage skills might even get nerfed.

Edited by Fueki.4753
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On 5/24/2023 at 2:05 PM, HeliosMagi.9867 said:

Simply change 1 trait (and buff another to compensate for the original's loss)

Last Blaze changed to Aura of Rage:

While in Berserk mode, pulse boons to yourself and nearby allies. Boons: Quickness, Fury, Might.

This would allow Berserker to be a Quickness provider just by doing its normal rotation, and ideally the base duration of these boons should be such that 100% uptime of them should be possibly with a moderate investment into Boon Duration. Would also make it great for Solo builds, since self-providing Quickness is kind of a pain, and Berserker without Quickness just doesn't feel right to me.

As a side note, Heat of the Soul should be buffed to include an effect that inflicts burning on critical hits, to compensate for the loss of Last Blaze on condi builds and to make condi builds synergize further with Smash Brawler.

 

How about a core MH weapon that gives support to pair with war horn?  And add your quickness to that.  Only scepter is left unless you rework mace I believe.

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13 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

1) It had kitten well better happen

2) If it doesn't then it should become a core weapon as part of a release adding new core weapons.

3) Crowded design spaces should not have extra design added into them...

Couldn’t agree more!  But would you make it a support weapon?

Edited by Logos.3042
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15 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

We dont need a ranged condi or power weapon. We have those already. So, yes I would.

We heard your complaints about Mace. 

Mace now no longer provides CC or Dmg. 

We made it a Boon Spam weapon. 

But only Might and Fury. Quickness only when Traited and you need 100% Boon Duration to get a 15% uptime. 

We also increased all CDs to compensate. 

Ohh and we only changed Mh Mace. 

Off Hand Mace gets still nerfed because reasons. 

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21 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

We heard your complaints about Mace. 

Mace now no longer provides CC or Dmg. 

We made it a Boon Spam weapon. 

But only Might and Fury. Quickness only when Traited and you need 100% Boon Duration to get a 15% uptime. 

We also increased all CDs to compensate. 

Ohh and we only changed Mh Mace. 

Off Hand Mace gets still nerfed because reasons. 

Probable.

In an ideal world, arms and core swords and longbow would be a reasonable condi build.  And MH mace would be a cc/support weapon to pair with war horn and tactics trait line.  
 

Arms would be reworked to get sword to do more condi than bleeding to have it be a somewhat viable condi build.  Bleed is too outdated now for condi for core.  Mace would have to proc quickness and healing.  
 

if they did these two things, this would make warrior so much more unified for the long haul.  Right now core has way too many holes.
 

 

Edited by Logos.3042
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22 minutes ago, Logos.3042 said:

Arms would be reworked to get sword to do more condi than bleeding to have it be a somewhat viable condi build.  Bleed is too outdated now for condi for core.  Mace would have to proc quickness and healing.  

Do you know how long I've been pushing for a torment on crit or torment on bleed trait for Arms? Or to bring back in confusion on CC or while hitting a CC'd target? Too long, and it still hasn't happened...

For a MH Support weapon we need these things:

Protection in an AoE
Quickness in an AoE
Barrier or healing in an AoE

Quickness and Healing in an AoE could be done with any weapon if Anet revisited existing traits within Tactics and made them tier off of adrenaline while giving the quickness trait the Dhuumfire treatment.

Protection could happen with an AoE application from Guard Counter.

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42 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Do you know how long I've been pushing for a torment on crit or torment on bleed trait for Arms? Or to bring back in confusion on CC or while hitting a CC'd target? Too long, and it still hasn't happened...

For a MH Support weapon we need these things:

Protection in an AoE
Quickness in an AoE
Barrier or healing in an AoE

Quickness and Healing in an AoE could be done with any weapon if Anet revisited existing traits within Tactics and made them tier off of adrenaline while giving the quickness trait the Dhuumfire treatment.

Protection could happen with an AoE application from Guard Counter.

If they make core support warrior viable, they should probably make a second trait line required, preferably from core because non of the elites are geared for support.  I think your aoe protection and barrier could tie into defense well.  Make tactics and defense the trait lines needed to be full warrior support and leave the third line open for your choice.

Edited by Logos.3042
Warrior not guard
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37 minutes ago, Logos.3042 said:

If they make core support warrior viable, they should probably make a second trait line required, preferably from core because non of the elites are geared for support.  I think your aoe protection and barrier could tie into defense well.  Make tactics and defense the trait lines needed to be full warrior support and leave the third line open for your choice.

Group support is typically it's own line with synergies coming from elsewhere. An example of that would be Mending Might being changed to heal allies when granting them might and then pairing Phalanx Strength with the might generating traits from Strength. That would be an example of AoE healing happening beyond Vigorous Shouts. 

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47 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Group support is typically it's own line with synergies coming from elsewhere. An example of that would be Mending Might being changed to heal allies when granting them might and then pairing Phalanx Strength with the might generating traits from Strength. That would be an example of AoE healing happening beyond Vigorous Shouts. 

So do you think a secondary trait line is needed for a full core support build? Or would you leave it as one?  I would hate to have to choose in one trait line between boons vs healing.  

 

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10 minutes ago, Logos.3042 said:

So do you think a secondary trait line is needed for a full core support build? Or would you leave it as one?  I would hate to have to choose in one trait line between boons vs healing.  

 

Our support, when finally fleshed out in its entirety, will inevitably rely on might. It could be heal when you grant people might, or grant quickness and/or protection when granting 5 or more might stacks at once to an ally. If that were the case then Strength would be the natural pairing with Tactics along with either Discipline or an Espec that has been reworked to have group support traits and/or utilities.

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Hmm, I see where you are going with might, but I’d put healing in tactics and boon in defense.

then make ppl pick between strength for more healing, or defense for more utility, boon.  
 

still missing a second weapon set for support though, and warrior would need it since they are built around weapon options instead of f key functions.

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8 minutes ago, Logos.3042 said:

Hmm, I see where you are going with might, but I’d put healing in tactics and boon in defense.

Canonically Defense is the self sustain line. It is meant to be selfish. The synergy between Might generation from Strength and leveraging it via Tactics is already there however. 

8 minutes ago, Logos.3042 said:

then make ppl pick between strength for more healing, or defense for more utility, boon.  
 

The utility would be self only though from Defense. Now, if Phalanx Strength would be reworked to grant allies boons that you grant yourself, well then that would be a different story. All the current nifty boons within Defense then get added in an AoE around the warrior. Sadly, that idea gets labeled as OP real quick by people. It would work though so long as the duration of boons given out are kept low.

8 minutes ago, Logos.3042 said:

still missing a second weapon set for support though, and warrior would need it since they are built around weapon options instead of f key functions.

If Mending Might healed allies that you grant might to, then paired with Phalanx Strength any weapon becomes a healing weapon so long as it generates might, which many do either through trait/rune synergy, trait synergy alone, or naturally on their own.

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19 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Canonically Defense is the self sustain line. It is meant to be selfish. The synergy between Might generation from Strength and leveraging it via Tactics is already there however. 

The utility would be self only though from Defense. Now, if Phalanx Strength would be reworked to grant allies boons that you grant yourself, well then that would be a different story. All the current nifty boons within Defense then get added in an AoE around the warrior. Sadly, that idea gets labeled as OP real quick by people. It would work though so long as the duration of boons given out are kept low.

If Mending Might healed allies that you grant might to, then paired with Phalanx Strength any weapon becomes a healing weapon so long as it generates might, which many do either through trait/rune synergy, trait synergy alone, or naturally on their own.

Move phalanx strength to defense gm and grant might on any block for 5 ppl w shield mastery

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5 minutes ago, Logos.3042 said:

Move phalanx strength to defense gm and grant might on any block for 5 ppl w shield mastery

No. You keep it in Tactics and swap Martial Cadence with Warrior's Cunning. Then make PS grant boons in an AoE that you grant to yourself. A Defense/Tactics/Any warrior then would be granting resistance, protection, regeneration, fury, stability, swiftness, vigor, might, aegis, resolution, and quickness. If MM is updated to heal when granting might, then with Strength they also pump out a steady flow of healing along with that. And there is your working warrior support build: Def: mid or bot/mid/bot Tact: mid or bot/top (after swapping MC)/ bot Str: mid/mid/bot.

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2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

No. You keep it in Tactics and swap Martial Cadence with Warrior's Cunning. Then make PS grant boons in an AoE that you grant to yourself. A Defense/Tactics/Any warrior then would be granting resistance, protection, regeneration, fury, stability, swiftness, vigor, might, aegis, resolution, and quickness. If MM is updated to heal when granting might, then with Strength they also pump out a steady flow of healing along with that. And there is your working warrior support build: Def: mid or bot/mid/bot Tact: mid or bot/top (after swapping MC)/ bot Str: mid/mid/bot.

But then Phalanx is competing w shout healing.  I don’t think they should be competing as you want support warrior to bring healing and boons like a Firebrand.

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2 hours ago, Logos.3042 said:

But then Phalanx is competing w shout healing.  I don’t think they should be competing as you want support warrior to bring healing and boons like a Firebrand.

If Mending Might is changed like I mentioned, then you wouldn't need it. You could do a high boon build with steady good healing, or you could do a lesser boon build with higher healing.

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