HOT TAKE: Not meant for fragile eyes. Cata isnt OP

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

You just dont know how to fight one. Based on my experience, the number of people who dont know how to dodge burning speed is >99%. The number of people who dont know how to stow attacks and not shoot themselves in the face with mag aura is >99%. The number of people who dont know how to watch what attunement you are in and instead think "hey, they just swapped into earth. Im going to use all my cooldowns and burst into obsidian flesh" is >99%.

The ONLY thing that could be considered OP is the stab on auras, though tbh perma stab is kind of required to play the game in the current shitfest of a state its in.

 

[Serephen.3420]

I can hear the floodgates opening already😂

[felix.2386]

burning speed?

[Zuko.7132]

23 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

burning speed?

right lol

[Swagg.9236]

Cata is busted precisely because you can't trade with it.  Honestly, you can't really trade with anyone in GW2.  Most classes get a super abusable, freebie attack rotation with a bunch of baked-in damage and effect mitigation.  Cata is just one of the bigger offenders.

The fact there is almost no real payoff to calculated trades (because that game state more or less doesn't exist) is one of the biggest things that keeps GW2's skill ceiling so oppressively low.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

2 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

burning speed?

See? people dont even know what dagger is on ele.

[Wayne.6253]

i tried cata tons of times but I really can't find him strong. I still prefer scepter weaver.

[SevlisBavles.3059]

Cata isn't OP, it's dumb. It's too easy to use, the Jade Sphere fields are way too big. It's a knockoff Tempest that fills every role Weaver fills so much better that it just completely pushes Weaver out of the meta. Weaver had so much more dynamics, both for the Weaver player but also the player that had to counter Weaver. So many different rotations, field and blast combinations, build potentials with different amulets and runes. A lot of different builds ranging from anywhere between roaming glass cannon FA to sidenoder Fire Weaver, each having to be played in their own way to get the most out of it, each having to be countered in its own way to deal with it. Cata is either a brick wall no point in fighting, or you just steamroll it. It actually lowers low ranked players' ability to learn the game and improve, and it enables too much easy cheese at higher levels.

It's an incredibly bad "addition" to the game.

[Kuma.1503]

Cata is strange. 

If it goes hammer, it's slow, has unreliable CC, struggles to chase kills, and needs to get physically in your face to access the bulk of its sustain. It's condi cleanse is... existant, I guess. 

On the other hand, the pressure it pumps out when it gets close to you puts even Reaper to shame. It can slap on an Avatar rune and still evaporate your health bar in seconds if its damage lands. The sustain when it is able to get up in your face and land Water 4 is very high. Magnetic and shocking aura paired with high stability uptime make it deceptively durable.

You can also literally do your PvE rotation on people and get away with it. That's always fun. 

It has very polarizing strengths and weaknesses and it can lead it to either feel useless or feel like a god. It all depends on what comp it's going up against. 

 

If it goes Scepter, it's much better at securing kills, it gains a very nice reliable way to set up kills with Gale. It's ranged pressure goes through projectile hate. It's sustain still requires it to hit a target, but now it's able to do it from range. Condi cleanse is still... existant. I guess. 

A lot of it's weaknesses get fixed by going scepter, but it's pressure isn't as rediculous as the hammer build (By this I mean you actually have to build aggressively to melt people).  Overall, i'd say Scepter is the better option, and still very strong even post nerf. 

 

Hammer is oppressive in the right circumstances, but has major flaws that hold it back. It feels more balanced overall. Both should, in theory, get memed by a good necro. If Scourge ever comes back into the meta, Catalyst will start to struggle a lot more. 

[Bookah pls.9352]

Aren't you the same guy who used to screech from the rooftops daily about demanding necro nerfs?

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

2 hours ago, Bookah pls.9352 said:

Aren't you the same guy who used to screech from the rooftops daily about demanding necro nerfs?

no im the delete tempest guy

[Bazsi.2734]

10 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

You just dont know how to fight one. Based on my experience, the number of people who dont know how to dodge burning speed is >99%. The number of people who dont know how to stow attacks and not shoot themselves in the face with mag aura is >99%. The number of people who dont know how to watch what attunement you are in and instead think "hey, they just swapped into earth. Im going to use all my cooldowns and burst into obsidian flesh" is >99%.

The ONLY thing that could be considered OP is the stab on auras, though tbh perma stab is kind of required to play the game in the current shitfest of a state its in.

 

Burning speed... congratulatins, you managed to find one weapon combo that cata isn't OP with.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

11 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Based on my experience, the number of people who dont know how to dodge burning speed is >99%

It's not that people don't know how to dodge things, it's that everything it does looks the same, and it has too many things that have to be dodged so it's too good at baiting defenses.

Catalyst is like a machine gun firing buckshot. No matter what you do, you're gonna get hit and lose trading blows with it.

11 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

The number of people who dont know how to stow attacks and not shoot themselves in the face with mag aura is >99%.

It's not that they don't know how to stop firing, it's that they have to keep firing. The Catalyst has way way too much anti-projectile to the point that the only way to bait out that anti-projectile quickly enough to even have a chance to hit it with projectiles, is to keep hitting it with projectiles so it has to burn through those CDs. This results in people continuing to fire projectile autos because they are looking for moments when the projectile autos land and shows number strikes so they know they have 1s or something to land a LB#4 or a SB#5 to open a moment for burst before it recasts mag aura. They have to keep up the projectile pressure otherwise granting the Cata too much reprieve from projectiles allows it to recycle CDs to the point where it becomes impossible to even hit it with projectiles.

They can't "look at its UI for mag aura icon" because then that means they're never watching the Cata on their screen or the Thief trying to backstab them, seeing as how mag aura is a problem 100% of the time, this is unrealistic to keep doing because it takes your eyes off the screen too often and you end up dying from it.

Cata's design is just absurd man. The kind of stuff that makes it strong all feels like forced-jank little to no counterplay.

11 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

The number of people who dont know how to watch what attunement you are in and instead think "hey, they just swapped into earth. Im going to use all my cooldowns and burst into obsidian flesh" is >99%.

I agree that people should pay more attention to the attunement swap pixels and sounds. However, this is along the same lines of having to pay attention to active auras. It's just too much to have to pay attention to so players are choosing either or to pay attention to. You're either trying to pay attention to active auras which is deviating your focus from attunements, or you're paying attention to attunements and it deviates away from focus on active auras. No matter how you look at this, players are having to take their eyes off the screen way way too often to check the Cata's UI and have to pay FINELY detailed attention to attempt to see through the pixel spam and small tells of when the Cata swaps attunements. I mean the tells here are small and difficult to see man. When something like a Spellbreaker swaps from GS to D/SH it's pretty obvious. When a Ranger swaps from LB to GS it's pretty obvious. <- Keep in mind these are only two swaps to worry about and they often happen in a very predictable rhythm because players often swap weapon sets off CD. But when a Cata is swapping between 4x different attunements that can happen in various rhythms that aren't so predictable, and the weapons it holds stay the same so graphically you can't easily identify the swap, and all its pixels are showing through an amalgam of other random pixels stacked on top of pixels, it is not so easy to always see when the attunement swap happens, even for the most experienced of us.

Again, it feels like forced-janked where the things that make it strong are factors that force players to counterplay with unrealistic expectations to constantly be taking their eyes off the screen which while they are taking their eyes off the screen to look at a character UI, then they are not looking at the screen to be able to see attunement swaps. And even if they are looking at the screen to watch for attunement swap, then its' like looking at an optical illusion game see if they can spot the attunement animations through a bunch of aura graphics and other garbage pixel spam that covers up the attunement swaps.

Consider as much ^ that everything the Cata does hits you like a machine gun with buckshot that you can't avoid and it still has ultra solid stacked defenses effects that often equates to virtual invulnerability, this class still needs to be adequately nerfed so that it is easier to hit and deals less damage.

Cata is still gross right now man.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[felix.2386]

7 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

See? people dont even know what dagger is on ele.

hah, i probably know more ele than you,

because at least i know the fact that, good cata builds use hammer or scepter/focus and not dagger.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It's not that people don't know how to dodge things, it's that everything it does looks the same, and it has too many things that have to be dodged so it's too good at baiting defenses.

Catalyst is like a machine gun firing buckshot. No matter what you do, you're gonna get hit and lose trading blows with it.

It's not that they don't know how to stop firing, it's that they have to keep firing. The Catalyst has way way too much anti-projectile to the point that the only way to bait out that anti-projectile quickly enough to even have a chance to hit it with projectiles, is to keep hitting it with projectiles so it has to burn through those CDs. This results in people continuing to fire projectile autos because they are looking for moments when the projectile autos land and shows number strikes so they know they have 1s or something to land a LB#4 or a SB#5 to open a moment for burst before it recasts mag aura. They have to keep up the projectile pressure otherwise granting the Cata too much reprieve from projectiles allows it to recycle CDs to the point where it becomes impossible to even hit it with projectiles.

They can't "look at its UI for mag aura icon" because then that means they're never watching the Cata on their screen or the Thief trying to backstab them, seeing as how mag aura is a problem 100% of the time, this is unrealistic to keep doing because it takes your eyes off the screen too often and you end up dying from it.

Cata's design is just absurd man. The kind of stuff that makes it strong all feels like forced-jank little to no counterplay.

I agree that people should pay more attention to the attunement swap pixels and sounds. However, this is along the same lines of having to pay attention to active auras. It's just too much to have to pay attention to so players are choosing either or to pay attention to. You're either trying to pay attention to active auras which is deviating your focus from attunements, or you're paying attention to attunements and it deviates away from focus on active auras. No matter how you look at this, players are having to take their eyes off the screen way way too often to check the Cata's UI and have to pay FINELY detailed attention to attempt to see through the pixel spam and small tells of when the Cata swaps attunements. I mean the tells here are small and difficult to see man. When something like a Spellbreaker swaps from GS to D/SH it's pretty obvious. When a Ranger swaps from LB to GS it's pretty obvious. <- Keep in mind these are only two swaps to worry about and they often happen in a very predictable rhythm because players often swap weapon sets off CD. But when a Cata is swapping between 4x different attunements that can happen in various rhythms that aren't so predictable, and the weapons it holds stay the same so graphically you can't easily identify the swap, and all its pixels are showing through an amalgam of other random pixels stacked on top of pixels, it is not so easy to always see when the attunement swap happens, even for the most experienced of us.

Again, it feels like forced-janked where the things that make it strong are factors that force players to counterplay with unrealistic expectations to constantly be taking their eyes off the screen which while they are taking their eyes off the screen to look at a character UI, then they are not looking at the screen to be able to see attunement swaps. And even if they are looking at the screen to watch for attunement swap, then its' like looking at an optical illusion game see if they can spot the attunement animations through a bunch of aura graphics and other garbage pixel spam that covers up the attunement swaps.

Consider as much ^ that everything the Cata does hits you like a machine gun with buckshot that you can't avoid and it still has ultra solid stacked defenses effects that often equates to virtual invulnerability, this class still needs to be adequately nerfed so that it is easier to hit and deals less damage.

Cata is still gross right now man.

Those are core ele features though. Focus + earth shield is plenty of proj hate you dont need cata. And rangers can still easily find openings to attack with LB, or you just take unblockable signet and you instantly counter any proj hate. Watching attunements again is core ele thing, and in any case its far harder to keep track of against weaver but no ones complaining about them. The only time there is no counterplay is when you try to trade into all their spam in melee and perma stun yourself on shock aura.

[Downstate.4697]

Scepter catalyst has the same problem bladesworn has right now. They have consistent damage+burst+great sustain.  There is no trading because they can spam 900 range auto attacks and hit you for 1k a second for free. If you get close you eat a burst or they negate your damage.  Catalyst is not op, but it is hard to play against for the average person

[Myror.7521]

I would say cata is in the Same state as Bladesworn. You kill peoples by overhealing plus dmg pressure as Comb. This leads into an pretty unhealthy and spamy gameplay. This is also why I (a in the Standing rn p2 warr Main) absolute hate Bladesworn. You don't need to know anything about the class. Go gunsaber Mode for self Defence/CC sweap to weap Set and Deal DMG. Rest is Just a Mix of shoutspam and running around targed. For real the only thing rn that could somehow handle bsw is full immob ranger cause Well If warr couldnt Run you could CC him for free cause of no Teleports (out Side of gunblademode)

[shion.2084]

20 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

You just dont know how to fight one. Based on my experience, the number of people who dont know how to dodge burning speed is >99%. The number of people who dont know how to stow attacks and not shoot themselves in the face with mag aura is >99%. The number of people who dont know how to watch what attunement you are in and instead think "hey, they just swapped into earth. Im going to use all my cooldowns and burst into obsidian flesh" is >99%.

The ONLY thing that could be considered OP is the stab on auras, though tbh perma stab is kind of required to play the game in the current shitfest of a state its in.

 

I find the unblockable flames trait a little op… especially when combined with any kind of immob.  I’d try to run away from the class… but all I got is superspeed and it can keep pace.  Ele is literally king of the hill still across a variety of specs and configurations.  By being the most powerful spec it certainly can qualify as OP if OP is relative to the average P.

[Chainheart.7263]

the dumbest post.

[Arheundel.6451]

On 5/26/2023 at 9:11 AM, SevlisBavles.3059 said:

Cata isn't OP, it's dumb. It's too easy to use, the Jade Sphere fields are way too big. It's a knockoff Tempest that fills every role Weaver fills so much better that it just completely pushes Weaver out of the meta. Weaver had so much more dynamics, both for the Weaver player but also the player that had to counter Weaver. So many different rotations, field and blast combinations, build potentials with different amulets and runes. A lot of different builds ranging from anywhere between roaming glass cannon FA to sidenoder Fire Weaver, each having to be played in their own way to get the most out of it, each having to be countered in its own way to deal with it. Cata is either a brick wall no point in fighting, or you just steamroll it. It actually lowers low ranked players' ability to learn the game and improve, and it enables too much easy cheese at higher levels.

It's an incredibly bad "addition" to the game.

Looking at your post history, I can see that you go after every dumb class/spec design in this game and for that, I salute you, it's unusual to see players who openly hate anything dumb because typically GW2 players hate anything dumb...that is not their own class. You mention Weaver....it got cried on, till they nerfed everything that would make a challenge to fight an actual decent weaver... the reason why there were literally no weaver in PvP for at least 2 years prior to catalyst?! You could find weavers in ranked and kitten, but they were 0 weavers both in WvW or AT monthly...after the year-long of nerfs that removed: stability on stance, removed 2/3 of the dmg and sustain, quadrupled the CD of the evade/stunbreak, nerfed Lightning rod trait when weaver players ended up using that trait as a last resort to play ele in PvP.

Basically for a typical GW2 player, everything is balanced as long as it doesn't kill them, the moment that happens...it becomes OP: that's the only truth in a MMO these days and with this generation of players...unlike in the past where players were actually competitive by mindsets........But hold on now, let me confirm with you that Catalyst is dumb..but so it's also 90% of this game class design , you can literally program a bot to play half the classes in this game

1. Thieves with Daredevil, deadeye...shadow return, stealth on dodge, stealth/quickness.......
2. Mesmers with spammable distortion, daze/stun from stealth with no tell, Moa form etc etc etc
3. Engineer with perma superspeed/quickness throwing grenades while running and a Mech doing stupid dmg
4. Necromancers with a 2nd HP bar absorbing 50% dmg, an elite applying all condis and giving them all boons..etc
5. Ranger with traits like ancient seeds...etc etc
6. Guardians with literally a thef spec with 4x the sustain and burn burst on top, with 2x the mobility etc etc
7. Revenants with....tanky cheese builds like vindicators and renegade, half of them even forgot where the dodge button is.....
8. Warriors with full counter...2s invulnerability spam now with berserker...shout bladesworn etc etc

Again...I salute you for denouncing equally all the dumb designs in this game but let me correct you on one thing:  every profession must have access to faceroll builds...or none of them should. I don't see why only ele players should go and struggle to accomplish anything in this game when a newb can jump on another class and do everything by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD. It's just stupid, absurd and arrogant to think like that and just put people off even trying to learn the class.

 I would be more than fine with deleting Catalyst today...but then I would expect to delete the rest of the dumb designed specs along with it, like: vindicator, renegade, virtuoso, willbender, deadeye, scrapper, mechanist. harbinger. etc etc..all of them...delete of all them and I would be happy to come back really. But in truth, what will happen now is that you will be able to see what I mean for "GW2 players hate everything dumb that it's not their own class" , by the amount of emoji I will get 

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Arheundel.6451

[Vancho.8750]

Here is not so hot take Catalyst was fine"ish" before the Scepter rework, ignoring the kinda broken numbers(that can be fixed) and the confetti particle fart clouds covering the not so well telegraphed actual damage skills, the spec was fine as semi melee bruiser with obvious push and pull mechanics since vulnerability phase was when it was attacking or trying to reach the target to attack, the moment they gave the scepter rework they made melee bruiser spec have range burst damage which removed the vulnerability phase.  

[Infinity.2876]

how to beat your average catalyst.

1. make them leave fire.

2. go focus someone else.

3. rinse and repeat.

pop quiz: how much dmg can a catalyst do while in obsidian flesh?

answer: 0

The only problem is a catalyst in fire. (or air)

a catalyst in earth or water is doing nothing.

[Leonidrex.5649]

On 5/26/2023 at 2:22 PM, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

no im the delete tempest guy

he is the " thief cant stealth during combat " guy
and backstab cant do " x " dmg guy depsite having screenshots of said damage
I member

Edited May 27, 2023 by Leonidrex.5649

[Kuma.1503]

1 hour ago, Infinity.2876 said:

how to beat your average catalyst.

1. make them leave fire.

2. go focus someone else.

3. rinse and repeat.

pop quiz: how much dmg can a catalyst do while in obsidian flesh?

answer: 0

The only problem is a catalyst in fire. (or air)

a catalyst in earth or water is doing nothing.

Hammer Cata hurts in every attunement. Especially if they run fresh air. 

It's not difficult for them to stack might, vuln, fury, and quickness. But you can kite them once they leave fire since it's not the fastest spec in the world, and its CC is extremely telegraphed. 

The big thing for hammer cata is to simply not stand near them if you can help it. Quick trades once they leave fire should let you chip them down and starve them of energy. Just make sure you're prepared to dodge Water 4 so you can deny them their resustain. 

Scepter has decent damage with shatterstone and Water Tridant, but these are more supplimental to their main burst. It's not going to one shot anyone, but it is something to be aware of. 

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[Leonidrex.5649]

1 hour ago, Infinity.2876 said:

how to beat your average catalyst.

1. make them leave fire.

2. go focus someone else.

3. rinse and repeat.

pop quiz: how much dmg can a catalyst do while in obsidian flesh?

answer: 0

The only problem is a catalyst in fire. (or air)

a catalyst in earth or water is doing nothing.

so solution to beating cata is to focus him down to the point he switches attunement which gives your team 4s opening to then switch to his team while he has low dmg output ? o.O
is that your amazing solution for real ?