June 27 Balance Update Preview

[ShatteredStars.6548]

3 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

*Hisses* TEAAAAPOOOOTTTTTT

he's a scourge main, i am not, but he knows that spec pretty well.

[Gibson.4036]

On 6/17/2023 at 12:39 PM, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Imagine Elite thats so good that you dont want to put any Core utility.

Its good design or bad?

Well, when a dev out and out says they hate kits…

Edited June 21, 2023 by Gibson.4036

[Batalix.2873]

56 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Well, when a dev out and out says they hate kits…

And then they proceed to leave kits AND strong ranged AA weapons on the espec they designed to make an "easy" Engi.

I am not opposed to the idea of Mechanist. But making a robot that acts as your ranged body, ranged boons, and ranged weapon attacks *without trading off any of those things on the player themselves* just fundamentally breaks the game. It is nearly all the flexibility and power of Core Engi PLUS a super robot. It is practically two whole players--both of which do far too much autoattacking--for the cost of one.

At MINIMUM, Mechanist needed to remove weapon use from the player. The Mech is already functioning as their weapon. Mech and player attacking at the same time is where Mech is most broken, and thus only one of the two should be able to attack at all. And if any Profession would suit a "weaponless" espec with a boosted Robot kit, it would be Engi, which was always designed to use kits more than weapons.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[melodyspectrum.2980]

On 6/20/2023 at 12:39 AM, BenaSPACE.6028 said:

This idea just hit me, and I think it would be a good change to make scrapper quickness pretty good!

Kinetic Accelerators: Grants 4s quickness and 8s fury when completing a blast, jump or whirl finishers (4 second cooldown on this effect). When you grant superspeed to an ally, extend the duration of boons by 2 seconds.

Also, because I think it needs it, 

Bulwark Gyro grants aegis when initially cast.

These are good suggestions, please listen.
At least add whirl finishers to the pile.

And scrapper NEEDS access to aegis at this point to compete with other supports. Either Bulwark Gyro or the Overshield trait.

[Gendalfs.7521]

4 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

I am not opposed to the idea of Mechanist

But your posts seems to show otherwise. Are you one of those people that plays Elementalist and think Mech is too easy for what it does?

[Crey.5263]

58 minutes ago, melodyspectrum.2980 said:

And scrapper NEEDS access to aegis at this point to compete with other supports. Either Bulwark Gyro or the Overshield trait.

i'd be careful what you wish for. I used to think Healscourge needed a boon to keep up with other supports...but you don't know what they'll take away from you to give you what you think you need....

[Batalix.2873]

13 minutes ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

But your posts seems to show otherwise. Are you one of those people that plays Elementalist and think Mech is too easy for what it does?

No, in fact I am not some leet piano player.

But there is a difference between "easy" and "can literally play the game for you" and Mechanist has always been precisely that. Any job design that quite objectively obviates large swathes of combat interaction for the player is a bad design.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Gendalfs.7521]

5 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

large swathes of combat interaction for the player

What about far less than half? Its still bothers you?

[Diskyp.9461]

Why? Just why, anet? Why are you nerfing guard signets? Was they too OP? Is there was 5+ guards with signets in every PvP game? Why? Please tell me why? You want guard to have only one meta build and kill any potential for any other possible builds? Can you please stop? You already took away symbols, spirit weapons, retalation and now its signets time. Please dont change perfect inscription and signets i beg you.

[Shae.9147]

Well ive never played wow classic but i think its a good time to switch over, i love GW2 and i loved solar and his changes but this is prolly a straw that i cant overlook its broken my fave build in the game and its clear the devs dont care and are not going to adress it. My fave build for open world and in groupd content is Heal Scourge, Hscg is by far the most enjoyable build for me to play i adore it so much and there is almost nothing like it in any other mmo its totally unique and special and so core to what makes scourge amazing and you are killing it. 

I feel sorry for bladesowrn/scrapper and mirage players too, but my baby my scourge is dead and i cant just cant forgive that i dont want to be forced to go play something else to get the feeling of my Hscg because there is nothing else like Hscg i cant forgive Anet for this oversight. Please for the love of god anet revert this patch and do some more work with each class and PLAY THEM to see what makes them enjoyable. because you clearly just made most of these changes from a numbers perspective not the perspective of someone playing a class to enjoy them. 

[Batalix.2873]

18 minutes ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

What about far less than half? Its still bothers you?

1) that's a gross misstatement of how little Mech *has* to interact with core combat mechanica.

2) even if it were a third I would say that is too much.

3) Did you even see not a few pages ago in this very thread a video posted showing the J Mech soloing champions while the player stood behind a rock?

Edited June 21, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Allori.7149]

In regard to the necro changes:

Even though Alac and Quickness have been the main boons of the game, completely removing class defining features will do more harm than help. 

[Serephen.3420]

People seem to forget that the initial preview changes for scrapper gyros were changed. So relax a bit necros, it's not the end of the world. Though I doubt they'll undo the boon corruption changes unfortunately 😕

I suspect they'll tone down some of the changes to mecro however, but unlikely a complete reversal at this point. Guess we'll have to wait and see. Afterall these are not the release notes and it's missing stuff from the stream (seriously wish they would just update the notes because there is no reason not to.)

Edited June 22, 2023 by Serephen.3420
Typo

[Zex Anthon.8673]

2 hours ago, Serephen.3420 said:

People seem to forget that the initial preview changes for scrapper gyros were changed. So relax a bit necros, it's not the end of the world. Though I doubt they'll undo the boon corruption changes unfortunately 😕

I suspect they'll tone down some of the changes to mecro however, but unlikely a complete reversal at this point. Guess we'll have to wait and see. Afterall these are not the release notes and it's misding stuff from the stream (seriously wish they would just update the notes because there is no reason not to.)

The reasoning they gave for nerfing boon corrupts is very tenuous.

They claim they wanted to nerf ranged boon corrupts to promote more pushes in WvW. Yet they nerf melee range boon corrupts across all game modes.

They claim boon rip was more thematic on axe since its a power weapon. Yet they entirely removed the boon removal on dagger off hand and weakening shroud despite being condi skills.

He claims necro's identity is "a lot of boon rip" when it is actually predominantly known for boon corruption. CMC would know this if he ever bothered playing necro, but it seems he is balancing other classes from the perspective of an ele main. 

[Serephen.3420]

10 minutes ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

The reasoning they gave for nerfing boon corrupts is very tenuous.

They claim they wanted to nerf ranged boon corrupts to promote more pushes in WvW. Yet they nerf melee range boon corrupts across all game modes.

They claim boon rip was more thematic on axe since its a power weapon. Yet they entirely removed the boon removal on dagger off hand and weakening shroud despite being condi skills.

He claims necro's identity is "a lot of boon rip" when it is actually predominantly known for boon corruption. CMC would know this if he ever bothered playing necro, but it seems he is balancing other classes from the perspective of an ele main. 

I agree with you about necro, but regarding CMC, he is not the only dev on the balance team and isn't making all these decisions on his own so it's a bit unfair to place all the blame on one person. Maybe whoever is managing necro needs to review their proposal. 

Can I ask where you are finding these extra comments. I honestly have been hearing bits and pieces all over of things not in the preview notes. It would be nice to read through and refer to them. Reddit used to do that but it's kinda dead still. 

Also I think encouraging pushing more is a good idea, but not sure about the current approach. I can see they are trying but maybe trying too hard in some areas and not enough in others.

[Zex Anthon.8673]

1 minute ago, Serephen.3420 said:

I agree with you about necro, but regarding CMC, he is not the only dev on the balance team and isn't making all these decisions on his own so it's a bit unfair to place all the blame on one person. Maybe whoever is managing necro needs to review their proposal. 

Can I ask where you are finding these extra comments. I honestly have been hearing bits and pieces all over of things not in the preview notes. It would be nice to read through and refer to them. Reddit used to do that but it's kinda dead still. 

Also I think encouraging pushing more is a good idea, but not sure about the current approach. I can see they are trying but maybe trying too hard in some areas and not enough in others.

Its from the balance preview stream.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1842006044

[Serephen.3420]

3 minutes ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

Its from the balance preview stream.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1842006044

I see, thank you for the link. Not looking forward trudging through a long stream but I'll have a crack at it😂

[Zex Anthon.8673]

Just now, Serephen.3420 said:

I see, thank you for the link. Not looking forward trudging through a long stream but I'll have a crack at it😂

Yea, I just looked at the stuff relevant to the classes I play. 

[Hauwlyn.8051]

On 6/19/2023 at 1:12 AM, Yogurt Goblin.5934 said:

But yes, I do believe other classes should have as much stab and aegis as firebrand, seeing as those 2 boons means you can skip certain mechanics.

Let me ask you this, why should hfb keep this niche, when no other class has a niche anymore? Firebrand is not special and shouldn't get any special treatment, its unfair.

I'm sure it's just as easy for a firebrand to do its job at range, do push, lasting immob, aoe immob, 25 might, have mobility and give vigor as it is for a druid. No it's not, you're deluded thinking other healers don't have niches. Firebrand either can't do those things to a sufficient extent or sacrifices much more to be able to do it. Stop thinking the grass is greener on the firebrand side, it's not.

Also, every mechanic that can be skipped through aegis and stab in raids, druid has sufficient access to those to skip it. More aegis is merely a convenient thing for predictable and avoidable bit hits and more stab is useful in fractals on some bosses, but only if the group doesn't CC and burst fast enough.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Hauwlyn.8051

[Spucke.4163]

On 6/8/2023 at 11:12 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

• "Advance!": Reduced ammunition recharge from 40 seconds to 32 seconds.

 

It already has 30 seconds ammunition recharge not 40 seconds. It's no reduction then. I guess you mean 30 to 24 otherwise it doesn't make sense.

On 6/8/2023 at 11:12 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

• "Feel My Wrath!": Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 24 seconds in PvP and WvW.

Why not in PvE too? To make Stalwart Speed more viable for quickness builds and Legendary Lore useless?

[Drag You Down.2615]

On 6/21/2023 at 11:11 PM, FalsePromises.6398 said:

What I'm saying is stop making traits that cut from your elite specialization's trademark capabilities, and instead design boon roles to accentuate them. Stop making boon roles feel like a shackle, make players feel enhanced when boons are added to their specializations. 

@Cal Cohen.2358

Plz just read this person's post, it can really help you. This is not the first time people complaining about supportive traits, and they are still like that, unsatisfying and disappointing.

[ericpeggy.8206]

Quote

Chaos Vortex: Reduced clone bleeding and torment duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds.

Any reason?

Quote

Bladeturn Requiem: This skill no longer blocks incoming attacks.

This skill will become a trash.

No longer is a skill, just a trait trigger.

Quote

Ritual of Life: Reduced revive percentage from 7% to 2% in PvE only.

Transfusion: This trait now only teleports downed allies when initially activated. Reduced the revival pulse from 2% to 1% when used with the scourge elite specialization in PvE only.

Overkill.

Quote

Unholy Feast: This skill now removes boons instead of converting them into conditions.

Spiteful Spirit: This trait now removes boons instead of converting them into conditions.

Enfeebling Blood: This skill no longer converts boons into conditions.

Lesser Enfeeble: This skill no longer converts boons into conditions.

Homogenisation.

Try to nerf convert, not delete it.

Quote

Manifest Sand Shade: Reduced shade duration from 20 seconds to 8 seconds in PvE only.

Do we can only have 3 sand shades same time less than 8 seconds?

Quote

Septic Corruption: Reduced condition damage increase per stack from 0.5% to 0.25% in PvE only.

Any reason?

Don't tell me you just want to nerf quickness harbinger's DPS.

Because all condi harbinger will choose this trait.

Quote

Forced Engagement: Reduced number of targets from 5 to 1. Increased range from 600 to 900.

If this only change in PvP will be better.

 

I don’t have strong feelings with Quick and Alac, but don't kill pure DPS when you try to nerf boon DPS.

[Persephone.1423]

On 6/9/2023 at 12:12 AM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

• Med Blaster: Reduced range from 600 to 450. The number of boons that affect this skill has been limited to 4 in WvW and PvP. Improved the visual effect of this skill to better match its radius.
• Fumigate: Reduced cooldown from 20 seconds to 16 seconds in WvW only.
• Super Elixir: Increased the base pulse healing from 163 to 204 in WvW. Increased the pulse healing coefficient from 0.05 to 0.1 in WvW only. Reduced the number of pulses from 11 to 5 in WvW only. This skill is now unblockable.

can you stop killing scrapper some of us still run this. lower the healing way too much. and less cleanses even more with super elixir. i read this first as buff but this is simple nerf on healing and it has alrdy hard time healing with other second supports.

[Radiancee.6537]

With so much feedback, could we at least get a statement before June 27th? Or will silence follow like last year and everything will be ignored again?

[BadLuck.8456]

On 6/20/2023 at 5:13 PM, Batalix.2873 said:

The game has been converging so hard on "everything DPS" so hard since EoD that *any* non-DPS build niches should generally be preserved. Rez Scourge was not really hurting anything in PvE and is a valuable prog tool. Specialized, and not overpowered because good groups don't need the extra barrier/rez and just slot other builds.

First, I kind of agree on WvW. The whole mode is pretty emergent and seems like a nightmare to balance. If it were me, I'd probably listen closely to community feedback there for anything grossly out of line but otherwise just kind of let it ride and let new meats and counter metas play out. I don't WvW a lot but that seemed to be what they did with the scrapper superspeed, stealth, and projectile block changes last year.

Second, I disagree on Rez Scourge. I personally thought it was too powerful and suffered from its success. It had a niche but it wasn't one that most of the game seemed to want (in my subjective experience.) I see the previewed changes as an attempt to take away some niche power and give back some more widely applicable power. They didn't even outright remove it so I think there's room there to discuss balancing by numbers (rezz% probably) if the nerf is too heavy handed. Heal alac scourge will still run Blood and continue to take Ritual of Life and Transfusion. They will continue to pull bodies (I am against the QoL nerf to pulling only on the first pulse) and aoe revive them. The biggest offender in the preview is the shade duration nerf because it's so counter to scourge's core design (most easily seen in the minor traits). I understand and agree they need scourge to not provide 10 man alacrity but they need to achieve that a different way.