June 27 Balance Update Preview

[Elleandria.2846]

4 minutes ago, Hauwlyn.8051 said:

Again, still off topic

I'm assuming since you keep deflecting and can't post logs that we can both agree that there are no "Might Issues" in the balancing of the game if played properly and not auto attack spamming 👍 Amazing talk lol definitely saving these for the memes later 

Edited June 24, 2023 by Elleandria.2846

[Hauwlyn.8051]

2 minutes ago, Elleandria.2846 said:

I'm assuming since you keep deflecting and can't post logs that we can both agree that there are no "Might Issues" in the balancing of the game if played properly and not auto attack spamming 👍 Amazing talk lol

Fine, I'm trying to find a completely random log on a boss where the group never splits to show you that some groups have might issues even when they have rotations, gimme a minute though, your off meta spec shows up so often it takes way too long to find one without it in there.

[Elleandria.2846]

Just now, Hauwlyn.8051 said:

Fine, I'm trying to find a completely random log on a boss where the group never splits to show you that some groups have might issues even when they have rotations, gimme a minute though, your off meta spec shows up so often it takes way too long to find one without it in there.

Again its not off meta when Druid is the top tier Heal Alac in the game, meta doesn't change just because people can't play it because they're bad lol just like it doesn't change that Weaver is the top end DPS for the majority of fights regardless of how hard it is to play. I'll be waiting for those logs showing might issues though 👍 People are putting money on the groups being poorly comp'd or the players just really sucking

[Hauwlyn.8051]

Just now, Elleandria.2846 said:

People are putting money on the groups being poorly comp'd

Ah, never mind, you just moved the goalpost again because you suspect you might be wrong. No, I can't provide that since you have your own definition of poorly "comp'd". Considering the topic was the might healers provide by themselves though, we got off topic again. Here was the one I found btw, I gave up on finding one without a mechanist at all, so I settled for without a mecha in one sub. https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/log/20230508-222353_sam_kill

I look forward to you actually making good points about how and why the hfb sucks so much more than your average HAM player and going into detail as to what they could have done better, but I don't think I'll get that here. There are reasons why, mind you. I'm just eager to see which ones you come up with.

[Elleandria.2846]

7 minutes ago, Hauwlyn.8051 said:

Ah, never mind, you just moved the goalpost again because you suspect you might be wrong. No, I can't provide that since you have your own definition of poorly "comp'd". Considering the topic was the might healers provide by themselves though, we got off topic again. Here was the one I found btw, I gave up on finding one without a mechanist at all, so I settled for without a mecha in one sub. https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/log/20230508-222353_sam_kill

I look forward to you actually making good points about how and why the hfb sucks so much more than your average HAM player and going into detail as to what they could have done better, but I don't think I'll get that here. There are reasons why, mind you. I'm just eager to see which ones you come up with.

Yeah except that log shows a 22.6 average might uptime for the whole group which is really good for sam and except the times people went off group dropping a few might and lowering their average their group comp was fine and all played well for the boss (Btw this was actually my old static too) So i still see no Might issues whatsoever here.... (Be mindful that the HB kept up the exact same overall might uptime that the HAM did while on Samarog but dropped it during Split 1 because most groups don't boon upkeep for Sam Splits. The Holo and Ren Averaged the same as Sub 2 even with the low Split 1 BD and the HB in that group being tank)

Edited June 24, 2023 by Elleandria.2846

[Elleandria.2846]

11 minutes ago, Hauwlyn.8051 said:

Ah, never mind, you just moved the goalpost again because you suspect you might be wrong. No, I can't provide that since you have your own definition of poorly "comp'd". Considering the topic was the might healers provide by themselves though, we got off topic again. Here was the one I found btw, I gave up on finding one without a mechanist at all, so I settled for without a mecha in one sub. https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/log/20230508-222353_sam_kill

I look forward to you actually making good points about how and why the hfb sucks so much more than your average HAM player and going into detail as to what they could have done better, but I don't think I'll get that here. There are reasons why, mind you. I'm just eager to see which ones you come up with.

Also heavily relies on supp comp too because this (https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/log/20230520-231015_gors_kill) is a log of one of my HB runs where the HAM and QuickSerk didn't outmight a HB and MirageAlac, no OP Mechs have existed for a while since their massive nerfs man but if you're that bad that mech is your best option then so be it tbh, got bigger problems than might then lol

[Elleandria.2846]

15 minutes ago, Hauwlyn.8051 said:

Ah, never mind, you just moved the goalpost again because you suspect you might be wrong. No, I can't provide that since you have your own definition of poorly "comp'd". Considering the topic was the might healers provide by themselves though, we got off topic again. Here was the one I found btw, I gave up on finding one without a mechanist at all, so I settled for without a mecha in one sub. https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/log/20230508-222353_sam_kill

I look forward to you actually making good points about how and why the hfb sucks so much more than your average HAM player and going into detail as to what they could have done better, but I don't think I'll get that here. There are reasons why, mind you. I'm just eager to see which ones you come up with.

https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/log/20230520-232753_sab_kill Here is yet another showing that if your comp for a fight sucks you're going to suffer with or without a mech lol All Sub 3 24+ Might while Mech in Sub 2 was kiting and couldn't upkeep might a lot, Comp matters man 👍 Can't say the spec is broken when a Druid kiting in the same setting keeps higher might and Alac, Whereas a HAT/HAM suffers there

[Hauwlyn.8051]

2 minutes ago, Elleandria.2846 said:

Yeah except that log shows a 22.6 average might uptime for the whole group which is really good for sam and except the times people went off group dropping a few might and lowering their average their group comp was fine and all played well for the boss (Btw this was actually my old static too) So i still see no Might issues whatsoever here.... (Be mindful that the HB kept up the exact same overall might uptime that the HAM did while on Samarog but dropped it during Split 1 because most groups don't boon upkeep for Sam Splits)

-talking about full group instead of the subgroup after I mentioned only one sub doesn't have mecha
-said sub actually has 3 peeps at 20, not 22
-the mecha is outperforming the fb on might despite taking sama's fixate 5 times, none of which were the ones just before phasing/dying
-I lied, this isn't actually a "random" log, this is the best performing firebrand's log on current patch. Imagine if it was a random HFB
-Here's another log of that same fight, look at the might https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/log/yHm5-20230522-210554_sam

12 minutes ago, Elleandria.2846 said:

but dropped it during Split 1 because most groups don't boon upkeep for Sam Splits)

Yes, because clearly they went to take a nap killing the adds that are directly responsible for lengthening the fight. More arguing in bad faith.

6 minutes ago, Elleandria.2846 said:

HB and MirageAlac

Tell me you don't know miralac without telling me you don't know miralac.

4 minutes ago, Elleandria.2846 said:

https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/log/20230520-232753_sab_kill Here is yet another showing that if your comp for a fight sucks you're going to suffer with or without a mech lol All Sub 3 24+ Might while Mech in Sub 2 was kiting and couldn't upkeep might a lot, Comp matters man 👍 Can't say the spec is broken when a Druid kiting in the same setting keeps higher might and Alac, Whereas a HAT/HAM suffers there

Yup, definitely moved the goalpost. Also here's a mirage again. Let's look at the Generation Group tab in boons. Yup, here it is.

There, I actually indulged you, and you're still moving the goalpost and going off topic. What's your next fallacy now?

[Batalix.2873]

I feel like this entire argument should be parsed off to a different discussion. It has kitten all to do with the patch notes and the more sweeping problems plaguing the game.

[Hauwlyn.8051]

Just now, Batalix.2873 said:

I feel like this entire argument should be parsed off to a different discussion. It has kitten all to do with the patch notes and the more sweeping problems plaguing the game.

If you want to put that back into the context, it was that some healers have to do a lot more work for boons than others, in particular firebrand, and that the incoming nerf is gonna completely compound the problem that is the very delicate balancing act of booning on hfb. Plenty of people argued that they don't need HFB to generate that much might, I argued this is specifically because of some particular alac dps, not the overall "free" nature of might, and here we are.

[Elleandria.2846]

5 minutes ago, Hauwlyn.8051 said:

-talking about full group instead of the subgroup after I mentioned only one sub doesn't have mecha
-said sub actually has 3 peeps at 20, not 22
-the mecha is outperforming the fb on might despite taking sama's fixate 5 times, none of which were the ones just before phasing/dying
-I lied, this isn't actually a "random" log, this is the best performing firebrand's log on current patch. Imagine if it was a random HFB
-Here's another log of that same fight, look at the might https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/log/yHm5-20230522-210554_sam

Yes, because clearly they went to take a nap killing the adds that are directly responsible for lengthening the fight. More arguing in bad faith.

Tell me you don't know miralac without telling me you don't know miralac.

Yup, definitely moved the goalpost. Also here's a mirage again. Let's look at the Generation Group tab in boons. Yup, here it is.

There, I actually indulged you, and you're still moving the goalpost and going off topic. What's your next fallacy now?

That log had 23+ might though lol i think you're failing to realize that Alac specs spread more might because of their abilities than Quick specs do so when you take the Heal and DPS supports and put their might together its much higher than the individual Supports, Neither of which should or can do full 22+ might on their own, thats not how the game works xD

[Elleandria.2846]

Just now, Hauwlyn.8051 said:

If you want to put that back into the context, it was that some healers have to do a lot more work for boons than others, in particular firebrand, and that the incoming nerf is gonna completely compound the problem that is the very delicate balancing act of booning on hfb. Plenty of people argued that they don't need HFB to generate that much might, I argued this is specifically because of some particular alac dps, not the overall "free" nature of might, and here we are.

Alac* Put in more Might than Quick* which again i feel is your disconnect when you're looking at healers thinking HB are worse than HAM solely because their might alone is bad, thats how Quicks are set up lol Alac specs are built out to output more Might than other builds for that reason, HB+MA upkeep 24+ might same as a HAM+QS, this has been a core mechanic to the game for as long as i've played so idk how this isn't clicking for you

[Hauwlyn.8051]

Just now, Elleandria.2846 said:

That log had 23+ might though lol i think you're failing to realize that Alac specs spread more might because of their abilities than Quick specs do so when you take the Heal and DPS supports and put their might together its much higher than the individual Supports, Neither of which should or can do full 22+ might on their own, thats not how the game works xD

 

1 minute ago, Elleandria.2846 said:

Alac* Put in more Might than Quick* which again i feel is your disconnect when you're looking at healers thinking HB are worse than HAM solely because their might alone is bad, thats how Quicks are set up lol Alac specs are built out to output more Might than other builds for that reason, HB+MA upkeep 24+ might same as a HAM+QS, this has been a core mechanic to the game for as long as i've played so idk how this isn't clicking for you

Thanks for saying some alac specs spread more might. Quite a shame it's not actually true for all of them, hence some alac dps have a clear advantage on boon that is ACTUALLY NEEDED since even the hfb with the best parse can't keep up. If you argue that all alacs spec should do enough might to prevent hfbs from having to jump through way too many hoops and burn way too many resources for might, I have news for you. On alac dps, tempest, mecha and mirage can loop 25 might by themselves. Willbender does none and neither does Palacren. Would you perhaps say this is a point if imbalance?

[Elleandria.2846]

8 minutes ago, Hauwlyn.8051 said:

 

Thanks for saying some alac specs spread more might. Quite a shame it's not actually true for all of them, hence some alac dps have a clear advantage on boon that is ACTUALLY NEEDED since even the hfb with the best parse can't keep up. If you argue that all alacs spec should do enough might to prevent hfbs from having to jump through way too many hoops and burn way too many resources for might, I have news for you. On alac dps, tempest, mecha and mirage can loop 25 might by themselves. Willbender does none and neither does Palacren. Would you perhaps say this is a point if imbalance?

HAM/HAT/HAD all give amazing Might when played properly, just because you have people that can't play it properly again doesn't negate it as meta, thats why HAD is used exclusively in Speedruns. Even Alac DPS all upkeep massive might, PAM/MA/AWB/CAR/CAT all give insane might as well, not just the healers, thats why HB may give less but the alac supp you have too supps it 🤯

Edited June 24, 2023 by Elleandria.2846

[Hauwlyn.8051]

Just now, Elleandria.2846 said:

HAM/HAT/HAD all give amazing Might when played properly, just because you have people that can't play it properly again doesn't negate it as meta, thats why HAD is used exclusively in Speedruns

Spouting random facts mixed with a half-truth while going off topic again? You didn't answer the question.

[Elleandria.2846]

Just now, Hauwlyn.8051 said:

Spouting random facts mixed with a half-truth while going off topic again? You didn't answer the question.

Not my issue if understanding the game is too hard for you man 👍 I'm here if you want to learn how class kits work more but its clear you're not understanding how Might works in class kits for this meta at least

[Hauwlyn.8051]

Just now, Elleandria.2846 said:

Not my issue if understanding the game is too hard for you man 👍 I'm here if you want to learn how class kits work more but its clear you're not understanding how Might works in class kits for this meta at least

As far as going off topic to protect their fragile ego goes, I think you broke the record. Enjoy being proven wrong by "casuals" who consistently disproved your point even after you moved the goalpost so many times. I must warn you though, as far as basing your ego on your percieved level at an MMO, you clearly picked the wrong one, you won't be able to entertain the delusion forever.

[Elleandria.2846]

2 minutes ago, Hauwlyn.8051 said:

As far as going off topic to protect their fragile ego goes, I think you broke the record. Enjoy being proven wrong by "casuals" who consistently disproved your point even after you moved the goalpost so many times. I must warn you though, as far as basing your ego on your percieved level at an MMO, you clearly picked the wrong one, you won't be able to entertain the delusion forever.

Whatever you gotta tell yourself man lol its clear to  everyone that you clearly misunderstand or are entirely lacking knowledge on class kits and how Might interacts in comps 👍 If you need any help with class comps im always here and now on the forum apparently to help

[Hauwlyn.8051]

1 minute ago, Elleandria.2846 said:

Whatever you gotta tell yourself man lol its clear to  everyone that you clearly misunderstand or are entirely lacking knowledge on class kits and how Might interacts in comps 👍 If you need any help with class comps im always here and now on the forum apparently to help

I certainly look forward to it. Can you give me the breakdown on how HealScrapper gives might? I might need it.

[Elleandria.2846]

3 minutes ago, Hauwlyn.8051 said:

I certainly look forward to it. Can you give me the breakdown on how HealScrapper gives might? I might need it.

Healscrap isn't an actual spec outside of WvW (But QDPS scrapper is), it has no use in PVE at all, similar to why HealBS will never exist in PVE. Its below being viable. Just because someone could exist doesn't mean it should nor does it mean the devs should waste their time tuning it to exist, the meta is in a good spot and i feel with the June 27th changes itll heal over time since HS was such a crutch to casuals for too long, glad its getting gutting so BS runs will only be EXP lol

Edited June 24, 2023 by Elleandria.2846

[Hauwlyn.8051]

Just now, Elleandria.2846 said:

Healscrap isn't an actual spec outside of WvW (But QDPS scrapper is), it has no use in PVE at all, similar to why HealBS will never exist in PVE. Its below being viable.

You should warn the snowcrows, they have it up to date in their "effective" category.

[Elleandria.2846]

3 minutes ago, Hauwlyn.8051 said:

You should warn the snowcrows, they have it up to date in their "effective" category.

Yeah that fits because it's not meta, therefore you can't expect good boon uptime from it nor can you expect good heals. They have condi quick chrono in effective too and it deals 17k lol Effective is going to be sub-par while anything in Recommended is going to be intro-meta since actual meta changes from boss to boss and comp as well seeing as Solo Heal Druid isn't a build anywhere since they change traits/abilities to accommodate the group more. If you expect the builds in Effective to give you meta results you're delusional lol

Edited June 24, 2023 by Elleandria.2846

[Hauwlyn.8051]

Just now, Elleandria.2846 said:

Yeah that fits because it's not meta, therefore you can't expect good boon uptime from it nor can you expect good heals. They have condi quick chrono in effective too and it deals 17k lol Effective is going to be sub-par while anything in Recommended is going to be intro-meta since actual meta changes from boss to boss and comp as well seeing as Solo Heal Druid isn't a build anywhere since they change traits/abilities to accommodate the group more 

 

5 minutes ago, Elleandria.2846 said:

, it has no use in PVE at all, similar to why HealBS will never exist in PVE. Its below being viable

Effective is inferior to "below viable", gotcha

[Elleandria.2846]

Just now, Hauwlyn.8051 said:

 

Effective is inferior to "below viable", gotcha

Show me where heal BS is then if you think its Effective lol HQS being put in effective is generous of them and im sure they know man

[Hauwlyn.8051]

Just now, Elleandria.2846 said:

Show me where heal BS is then if you think its Effective lol HQS being put in effective is generous of them and im sure they know man

Well, Heal BS isn't in the effective category, Healscrapper is. It's very generous of them to provide free work doing those pages.
Oh, it's also on Hardstuck btw. Maybe you should tell them to remove it though, so people don't mistake it for an actually effective build, like the rest of the list. Do you have their public discord?