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Patch for Necromancer


XECOR.2814

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*Manifest sand shade changes demolishes DPS Scourge. The by-product of this is  that there wont be an Alac DPS Scourge build and on the other end they nerfed its support through rezzing too so the heal Alac Scourge will be nerfed too, it will do some healing but with buffs to already insane druid or god level mech builds being there in the scene, who will use these nerfed Scourge specs idk.
Barrier scaling and base barrier keeps going down so what kind of build will "only alac scg" make i have no idea.

 *Transfusion nerf is well deserved but since they removed most of its rez power from it, i wished they gave back the big pulsing base heal to it as it is the pillar that will help Alac Scourge compete with other alac heal builds.

*Signets of Suffering trait rework is just bad. I have no other words to describe this change.
This rework removes like 4 different effects that activated from different signets while in necromancer is in shroud. These effects were actually used in different niche builds in different game modes.
It allowed for more variety in theory crafting. All of it is removed and replaced by bland boon strip, which is useless in majority of game modes, there is more discussion to be had here for each game modes regarding usability of specific signets but it will just be too long to write here.
Many of these signets were already balanced based on their improved effects, so completely removing improved effects with no changes(except for slapping boon strip on each) is very ignorant and I think it will make many niche builds irrelevant that gained their gimmick from the improved effects.

*Removing boon corruption from Enfeebling Blood and the Lesser Enfeeble is fine, but the base skills need more to it now.
Its weakness duration, cooldown, and strike or condition damage need to be pushed up or it needs some other flavor, these skills will become extremely bland and under powered if these changes go through as it is. That is just my opinion though.

*Quickening Thirst: Change is fine, but did they forget about movement speed?

Things i missed in the patch:
*Warhorn5 still dog tier, needs rework  of functionality imo.
*Harbinger movement skills, shroud#3(insane pre and after cast) and shroud#4(low and unreliable evade frame) both clunky. Underwater shroud skills dont have animation still.
*Harbinger power traits unused by everyone(except stability one). They look streamlined but have no builds to use them so are the really an option?
*Sanity before making Scourge changes.

EDIT: Things i forgot to mention:
*They removed outgoing heal modifier from Banshee's Wail and added to Life from Death as compensation for removing the 10% revive effect. But does this mean now we take to life from death trait on heal build? What about the warhorn's ally heal and improved healing interaction they were going for in warhorn and its usability rework in previous patch? Its all weird.
*Multiple weapon skills cooldown reduction traits left untouched, which does not align with their agenda of doing so for all other classes.
*Vile Vials trait now does 7 vuln on elixir use. Yes that is the only effect of major trait.
*I do think the removal of corruption on dagger#5 enfeeble is too much.

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Edited by XECOR.2814
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The patch is horrible on so many levels. Like removing boon corrupt while reducing all utility skill cooldowns across the board for more boonspam?

 

4 traits centered around fear, with less corrupts and more boon spam makes it even harder to get a fear of and benefit from these traits.

on top they simply forgort several necromancer cooldown traits. Pistol? Axe/focus? Corrupts?

And also they give nothing as a compensation for these traits. elixirs cause vuln? 2 sec burn after using a punishment skill? Thats it?

For scourge im really speechless. The spec was already wonky as hell. Apart from the usual stuff they further nerf baseline traits while using scourge? Dhuumfire is still 1 sec burn 5 sec icd like for what?  amd they add more of this. Its really mind boggling how they came up with all of this.

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4 minutes ago, Brujeria.7536 said:

The patch is horrible on so many levels. Like removing boon corrupt while reducing all utility skill cooldowns across the board for more boonspam?

 

4 traits centered around fear, with less corrupts and more boon spam makes it even harder to get a fear of and benefit from these traits.

No yea my old school terrormancer build just got gutted. The idea is to strip boons, convert them into condis. Mainly stability. Since you want that fear chain on lock. As it currently stands you’re forced to change a traitline for path of corruption to strips boons or lose terror trait, which the build revolves around. I’d suggest moving terror to GM and buffing it and moving weakening shroud to master. There will be no reason to go weakening shroud other than to apply bleeding and weakness. Better off changing to lingering curse I guess…

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Just now, Rdm.3186 said:

Deleting corrupt from necromancer, those guys have no clue what they are doing. Can we get some balance devs which actually know and understand the game and classes they are balancing? 

I didn't mention it since its what they are going for this patch. Since the patches are much more frequent so it does not affect us that much, if the boon ball meta becomes more problematic then boon corrupt can be back on skills, but for now, the skills become extremely bland from where boon corrupt is removed.

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29 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Man and I was just starting to find Reaper builds I enjoyed playing and anet comes along and decides to gut them all.

I don't think Reaper is seeing any practical change at all aside from the rare signet builds.

 

Side note, what's the betting they forgot about Blood Bank/Sanctuary runes when doing this "apply alacrity on barrier" change, so you get alacrity on every single hit you make?

Edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180
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11 minutes ago, Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

I don't think Reaper is seeing any practical change at all aside from the rare signet builds.

 

Side note, what's the betting they forgot about Blood Bank/Sanctuary runes when doing this "apply alacrity on barrier" change, so you get alacrity on every single hit you make?

If you call completely gutting corrupt reaper no change.. ok also my favorite builds were running the spite signet, so yeah.

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Please don't gut the signet trait. The current iteration makes for some really great builds such as:

- Power signet reaper

- Power signet quickness harb

- Open world celestial reaper

...All three of which I use. Please Anet, don't kill these builds and niche build diversity because of the recharge part of the trait. Just remove that part if it's problematic, but leave the rest of the functionality intact.

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I'm wondering if they just forgot to clarify that the signets persisting in shroud is going to remain a thing on Signets of Suffering. It seems like a colossal nerf for so many PvE builds otherwise (mostly open world and LI builds, but still. To me, those are the main builds in a game like Gw2). I hope that functionality is staying and they just forgot to put it on their slides and in the patch notes.

I'm fine with them continuing on their crusade to streamline cooldowns for ease-of-balance reasons, but hopefully they spare this trait's shroud functionality.

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1 hour ago, Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

I don't think Reaper is seeing any practical change at all aside from the rare signet builds.

 

Side note, what's the betting they forgot about Blood Bank/Sanctuary runes when doing this "apply alacrity on barrier" change, so you get alacrity on every single hit you make?

the changes almost half power reapers corrupts in general roaming, especially with the nerf to axe 3. 

which would be fine .... if we werent plagued by the cele/boon meta

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1 hour ago, Nefras.7314 said:

the changes almost half power reapers corrupts in general roaming, especially with the nerf to axe 3. 

which would be fine .... if we werent plagued by the cele/boon meta

Hopefully it’s in preparation for a boon uptime nerf in the future

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Necro is pretty much the last class I play in GW2, precisely because of the rez abilities and utility of boon corrupts. I enjoy the utiility.

Anet have left me with pretty much nothing.

Good job Anet. You've almost entirely annhiated any identity the class had left. I simply do not understand why this was necessary? Who was complaining about boon corrupts existing? Who was complaining about people being rez'd?

They haven't even increased any conditions or damage to make up for the loss. This is just a straight up nerf to the whole of necro for no discernable reason.

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4 hours ago, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

oh look, the only way we necros have to fight the vomitive boon-meta used by other classes with plenty of blocks/dodges/evades/leaps/invulnerability and mega-healings is getting nerfed because why not...

Technically they increase the number of way you can remove boons so the devs would probably disagree with you. Beside, if you look back at the past, when the signet trait used to remove boons it was considered as a strong option in competitive modes.

One can also take a look at the improvement that the patch bring:

  • Life siphon no longer being a channeled skill is a huge QoL (the devs will probably gratify it with a debilitating cast time but on the patch note, right now, it's a tweak that really look sexy).
  • The base CD reduction on most signet is welcome.
  • Scourge now have a set of tools that can potentially make him a competitive healer, not just a noob carry.
  • Serpent siphon look like it will finally be worth using.
  • Harbinger's dps builds got a free CD reduction on their elixirs. (not sure if vile vial is worth taking now, though)

What I'm less thrilled about is:

  • Well of blood giving regeneration. Regeneration on WoB feel pointless as the necromancer can already keep up the boon easily. If the regeneration replace the heal on tic, that's a debilitating nerf to the necromancer.
  • The nerf to the necromancer's ability to rally it's allies in PvE. I mean, with those changes the necromancer look like it will fall from best rally to below average rally.
  • To me, the change to scourge look like we will see a return to the overwhelming amount of barrier output and, by extension, scourge's stacking in WvW, is this really wise?
Edited by Dadnir.5038
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5 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Technically they increase the number of way you can remove boons so the devs would probably disagree with you. Beside, if you look back at the past, when the signet trait used to remove boons it was considered as a strong option in competitive modes.

One can also take a look at the improvement that the patch bring:

  • Life siphon no longer being a channeled skill is a huge QoL (the devs will probably gratify it with a debilitating cast time but on the patch note, right now, it's a tweak that really look sexy).
  • The base CD reduction on most signet is welcome.
  • Scourge now have a set of tools that can potentially make him a competitive healer, not just a noob carry.
  • Serpent siphon look like it will finally be worth using.
  • Harbinger's dps builds got a free CD reduction on their elixirs. (not sure if vile vial is worth taking now, though)

What I'm less thrilled about is:

  • Well of blood giving regeneration. Regeneration on WoB feel pointless as the necromancer can already keep up the boon easily. If the regeneration replace the heal on tic, that's a debilitating nerf to the necromancer.
  • The nerf to the necromancer's ability to rally it's allies in PvE. I mean, with those changes the necromancer look like it will fall from best rally to below average rally.
  • To me, the change to scourge look like we will see a return to the overwhelming amount of barrier output and, by extension, scourge's stacking in WvW, is this really wise?

That is very nice copium to retain mental state.

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6 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Technically they increase the number of way you can remove boons so the devs would probably disagree with you. Beside, if you look back at the past, when the signet trait used to remove boons it was considered as a strong option in competitive modes.

One can also take a look at the improvement that the patch bring:

  • Life siphon no longer being a channeled skill is a huge QoL (the devs will probably gratify it with a debilitating cast time but on the patch note, right now, it's a tweak that really look sexy).
  • The base CD reduction on most signet is welcome.
  • Scourge now have a set of tools that can potentially make him a competitive healer, not just a noob carry.
  • Serpent siphon look like it will finally be worth using.
  • Harbinger's dps builds got a free CD reduction on their elixirs. (not sure if vile vial is worth taking now, though)

What I'm less thrilled about is:

  • Well of blood giving regeneration. Regeneration on WoB feel pointless as the necromancer can already keep up the boon easily. If the regeneration replace the heal on tic, that's a debilitating nerf to the necromancer.
  • The nerf to the necromancer's ability to rally it's allies in PvE. I mean, with those changes the necromancer look like it will fall from best rally to below average rally.
  • To me, the change to scourge look like we will see a return to the overwhelming amount of barrier output and, by extension, scourge's stacking in WvW, is this really wise?
Quote

Harbinger

  • Vile Vials: This trait no longer reduces the cooldown of elixir skills. Increased vulnerability stacks from 5 to 7.
  • Elixir of Promise: Reduced cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW.
  • Elixir of Anguish: Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP and WvW.
  • Elixir of Bliss: Reduced cooldown from 40 seconds to 32 seconds in PvP and WvW.
  • Elixir of Ignorance: Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 24 seconds.
  • Elixir of Risk: Reduced cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW.
  • Elixir of Ambition: Reduced cooldown from 90 seconds to 72 seconds in PvP and WvW.

Actually that base reduction for Vile Vials is only in WvW/PvP and bringing it in line with what it was in PvE. So we lost 20% reduction in PvE for 20% reduction in WvW/PvP and only gained 2 vunerability stacks.

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13 hours ago, Fend.4956 said:

Please don't gut the signet trait. The current iteration makes for some really great builds such as:

- Power signet reaper

- Power signet quickness harb

- Open world celestial reaper

...All three of which I use. Please Anet, don't kill these builds and niche build diversity because of the recharge part of the trait. Just remove that part if it's problematic, but leave the rest of the functionality intact.

+1 for this!

My reaper uses 3 signets + Signets of Suffering, which gives more passive power + self healing while attacking mobs + MOST IMPORTANTLY  life force gain increased by 33%!

So where do we get this 33% life force regen back then? And wher do we need boons removal in pve that much anyways?

Keep this as it was in PVE and change it if you like in PVP, where boons are an issue!

Look how good the Signets of Suffering is right now (also check history to see how it was buffed):

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signets_of_Suffering

So please keep this as it was in PVE!

TY!

And I won't even touch Scourge here at all, since I stopped playing it when barriers etc were nerfedt 1st time! Before that I could solo face-tank any champion anywhere without any problems and it was fun... but this playstyle was killed!

(Sidenote! personally I dont like constant "class balansing" at all since every time they seem to be nerfing something down or changing classes gameplay completely! It rises frustration each time, so at some point i am already having thoughts og quitting this game forever!)

Edited by Septimus Prime.6743
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Hscourge  ( and scourge) was the only class I truly enjoyed playing in this game. I know there are a lot of classes and specs, but HScourge was the one that made me actually enjoy GW2.

 

Seeing this "trade-off" ( it's not even a trade off, it's a blunt force trauma to the specc ) makes me want to uninstall the game again and keep off it for a few years. Again.

I know Im just one guy, complaining about something that many might even disagree, but I was spending regularly in the shop, and without any class in sight that scratch that itch of a barrier healer ....why keep playing?

Yes. I know that HScourge will now have a spot in normal healing comps, and that the spec is still "viable" in a way ( or even more according to a few), but by the gods it looks unfun and tedious instead of the laid back spec it was.

 

Which makes me wonder. Why this approach at all? High end / Farm comps weren't even using Hscourges. 
Pushing groups would ditch them asap as well
LFG refused most if not all HScourges straight up

And now we're supposed to be OKAY just because we can do Alac? When everything else about the spec is *worse* ?

No big shade if I want alac? So. I'm just an alac bot without the core spec power of barriers? 
Fork off.

what about off-group playing in solo etc? Why is my DPS being mangled to kitten?

 

Who asked for this? Why was it done? This is ridiculous. The only class I enjoyed playing and was already conscious that most groups wouldn't want me, but still felt nice to play overworld casually - but now? I don't even wanna play over such massive changes.
 

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7 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Life siphon no longer being a channeled skill is a huge QoL (the devs will probably gratify it with a debilitating cast time but on the patch note, right now, it's a tweak that really look sexy).

The stream showed it to be a 3/4 second cast time, with damage and healing numbers (it was a 0 healing power build, so possible change in healing power scaling) remaining the same.  That said, it also appears that leaving 600 range will cancel the effect.

Edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180
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5 hours ago, Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

The stream showed it to be a 3/4 second cast time, with damage and healing numbers (it was a 0 healing power build, so possible change in healing power scaling) remaining the same.  That said, it also appears that leaving 600 range will cancel the effect.

no leaving the range didn't cancel the effect. it seemed like you could port away to 1200+ range and still get the damage&healingpulses as long as you hit the attack (in 600 range ofc)

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