June 2023 Alliances discussion

[jul.7602]

Thought that I would make a mega-thread where we can discuss our experiences.

[Dawdler.8521]

The first point of discussion would be to remember that this is still about world restructure, not alliances which hasnt been implemented yet.

[jul.7602]

7 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

The first point of discussion would be to remember that this is still about world restructure, not alliances which hasnt been implemented yet.

They are interchangeable.

[Chichimec.9364]

4 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

The first point of discussion would be to remember that this is still about world restructure, not alliances which hasnt been implemented yet.

 

4 hours ago, jul.7602 said:

They are interchangeable.

I don't think they are interchangeable. That's what Dawdler was pointing out, I believe. That question aside though, I was placed correctly, which I was relieved to see. As expected, there were queues on all  the maps. Other than that, it seemed like a normal night in WvW. How did other folks do tonight?

[Dominus.7803]

My entire friends list are on various other battlegroups. This is awful.

[Dawdler.8521]

6 hours ago, jul.7602 said:

They are interchangeable.

They are most definetly not. Alliances is a functionality within world restructure that we havent even seen yet nor has been part of any betas.

Edited June 10, 2023 by Dawdler.8521

[Smartyy.5748]

Not much has changed for me in the current alliance, except that I have changed "sides". I am now on a strong fighting server against a PPT server. On the opposing server are night and morning active PPT guilds. Great idea to bring these tww together. 

Edit: And the third server seems to be dead.

Edited June 10, 2023 by Smartyy.5748

[Graendal.5649]

As far as we can tell, the only point of this specific beta is to test the rematch system. It's fine, but... wouldn't have it been better to test it with a daily rotation instead of locking us for 2 weeks with a degraded game mode, with bugs affecting the gameplay (like not seeing the members of the squad on the mini-map) still not corrected and the main feature (alliances) still not ready ?

I mean, I totally understand the need to test the technical side of things, but doing it on live servers without pairing it with the gameplay side of things is just using the players as quality control....

[Dawdler.8521]

17 minutes ago, Graendal.5649 said:

As far as we can tell, the only point of this specific beta is to test the rematch system. It's fine, but... wouldn't have it been better to test it with a daily rotation instead of locking us for 2 weeks with a degraded game mode, with bugs affecting the gameplay (like not seeing the members of the squad on the mini-map) still not corrected and the main feature (alliances) still not ready ?

I mean, I totally understand the need to test the technical side of things, but doing it on live servers without pairing it with the gameplay side of things is just using the players as quality control....

Well that you'd have to ask Anet, because it's been brought up even before the first beta. It's the same with just sending a ingame mail to everyone saying hey there's a beta next week. And yes, I've also said that not having alliances implemented leave a bad taste because people have no idea what they're talking about when discussing alliances vs world restructure (and this thread doesnt help that impression).

But then again according to these forums server pride is dead, WvW is dead and no one is playing so I dont know who's complaining and making these 100+ queues 🤷‍♂️

[Erze.7253]

And whatever they did to create the matchups seems faulty. Outnumbered everywhere.

[TheIceman.1039]

59 minutes ago, Erze.7253 said:

And whatever they did to create the matchups seems faulty. Outnumbered everywhere.

Its just weekend. Business days only ghosts screaming on maps

[Custodio.6134]

15 hours ago, jul.7602 said:

They are interchangeable.

that´s where you´re wrong tho. 

Alliances is NOT an interchangeable term with World Restructuring (wow, even after all those years, i still have to explain) 
 

• Alliances is a feature, that is intended to allow guilds to be grouped together in the process of world creation. It is intended to take into account AT LEAST multiple guilds to always be paired together (if possible), potentially including standalone players as well
• World Restructuring is the WHOLE PROCESS of transitioning to the new system. This includes (but is NOT exclusively limited to) alliances, matchmaking, background-systems and other reworks of WvW-systems. 

Hypothetically speaking (just to visualize), if alliances were apples, then World Restructuring would be the entire spectrum of fruits. You cannot just say "all fruits are apples" (which in this visual example would translate to "everything of alliances is world restructuring"), but you can say "all apples are fruits" (which in this visual example would translate to "World Restructuring contains alliances, but more")

and if you still cannot visualize: here's even a picture that got shown in the earliest stages of announcements already: 

Visual Representation

see those blue-ish "circles" in there? That is alliances. and they are currently NOT part of the beta

Edited June 10, 2023 by Custodio.6134

[aspirine.6852]

If you got placed in Red, you are kittened it seems. 

[jul.7602]

2 hours ago, Custodio.6134 said:

that´s where you´re wrong tho. 

Alliances is NOT an interchangeable term with World Restructuring (wow, even after all those years, i still have to explain) 
 

• Alliances is a feature, that is intended to allow guilds to be grouped together in the process of world creation. It is intended to take into account AT LEAST multiple guilds to always be paired together (if possible), potentially including standalone players as well
• World Restructuring is the WHOLE PROCESS of transitioning to the new system. This includes (but is NOT exclusively limited to) alliances, matchmaking, background-systems and other reworks of WvW-systems. 

Hypothetically speaking (just to visualize), if alliances were apples, then World Restructuring would be the entire spectrum of fruits. You cannot just say "all fruits are apples" (which in this visual example would translate to "everything of alliances is world restructuring"), but you can say "all apples are fruits" (which in this visual example would translate to "World Restructuring contains alliances, but more")

and if you still cannot visualize: here's even a picture that got shown in the earliest stages of announcements already: 

Visual Representation

see those blue-ish "circles" in there? That is alliances. and they are currently NOT part of the beta

Again they are interchangeable at this point. You've lost the narrative. Numerous times this whole thing has been called "Alliance beta" by official Anet representative, and even promotional material. When people say alliances they are referring to all of the stuff that was brought up in that one thread 5-6 years ago. Not having this discussion again.

[Dawdler.8521]

53 minutes ago, jul.7602 said:

Again they are interchangeable at this point. You've lost the narrative. Numerous times this whole thing has been called "Alliance beta" by official Anet representative, and even promotional material. When people say alliances they are referring to all of the stuff that was brought up in that one thread 5-6 years ago. Not having this discussion again.

The wiki has the beta references, so lets just go through the subject headings of the frontpage news and devposts for all the betas:

Studio Update: World Restructuring and the Future of World vs. World (beta 1)
WvW World Restructuring Beta Update (beta 2)
WvW World Restructuring Beta 3 begins on January 14 (beta 3)
WvW World Restructuring Beta 4 Begins on August 12 (beta 4)
October 14 WvW World Restructuring Beta 6 (beta "5", dont know how that count works)
World Restructuring Beta #6 Begins Tomorrow (beta 6)
Dev Notes: June 6 WvW Updates and World Restructuring Beta Test (beta 7)

Hm most definetly the alliance beta...

[jul.7602]

33 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

The wiki has the beta references, so lets just go through the subject headings of the frontpage news and devposts for all the betas:

Studio Update: World Restructuring and the Future of World vs. World (beta 1)
WvW World Restructuring Beta Update (beta 2)
WvW World Restructuring Beta 3 begins on January 14 (beta 3)
WvW World Restructuring Beta 4 Begins on August 12 (beta 4)
October 14 WvW World Restructuring Beta 6 (beta "5", dont know how that count works)
World Restructuring Beta #6 Begins Tomorrow (beta 6)
Dev Notes: June 6 WvW Updates and World Restructuring Beta Test (beta 7)

Hm most definetly the alliance beta...

 https://www.shacknews.com/article/126300/guild-wars-2-fall-2021-roadmap-includes-wvw-revamp-beta

 

OFFICIAL Anet advertisement calls the first beta "First World vs World Alliance Beta". It was later essentially used interchangeably on the stream by developers.

Edited June 10, 2023 by jul.7602

[Dawdler.8521]

4 minutes ago, jul.7602 said:

Did you not see the promotional material that said "Alliance Beta"?

If you got a source for that I'd be happy to take a look at it, just as long as it's not the old phase 2 news which still referred to it as " the first World Restructuring beta with alliances."

[TheGrimm.5624]

Reflection on weekend play: Match is close within 6 points to all three servers. As far as time zone review, on off hours one server has 50% of objectives so time zone not impacting sorting remains a factor.

[Dawdler.8521]

14 hours ago, jul.7602 said:

 https://www.shacknews.com/article/126300/guild-wars-2-fall-2021-roadmap-includes-wvw-revamp-beta

 

OFFICIAL Anet advertisement calls the first beta "First World vs World Alliance Beta". It was later essentially used interchangeably on the stream by developers.

Since you edited it after I wrote my reply, what the text says:

Last month we confirmed that the WvW World Restructuring feature (a.k.a. Alliances) is in active development. Today we’re back to announce that we’re targeting September 24 for the first week-long beta test of the system.

And as we all know, this feature of world restructuring failed to materialize and there's never been a beta on it to this day. We've only seen restructure betas.

[Dantana.8510]

I play for WVW. I think the Alliance Event is the most unpopular of all gameplay ANET offers. During the next 2 weeks, I will find other things to waste my time, The major problem I have with Alliances is lack of comms, server friends scattered over different servers and lack of concern for winning. So what if we lose, it's not our server. WVW doesn't need Alliance Events and very few enjoy it. CYA in two weeks.

[Xenesis.6389]

7 or 8 betas by now and people still coming back with the same complaints and refuse to apply the fix to their situation. 😏🍿

[Xenesis.6389]

11 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Reflection on weekend play: Match is close within 6 points to all three servers. As far as time zone review, on off hours one server has 50% of objectives so time zone not impacting sorting remains a factor.

Hmmm well two of the matchups are kinda close 8-10 points difference, but the other two are double digits 16-27 points difference already. 🙂

https://i.imgur.com/FgCNZMl.jpg

Edited June 11, 2023 by Xenesis.6389

[Ultima.5280]

I was complaining about the matchmaking before Beta : Red had 50% of the world map.

First beta day, I was so happy to see people everywhere, it was chaotic, small group everywhere.

Second day, my serveur is totaly destroyed, there is between 10 to 40 red/green guilds next to the blue spawn. (on red/green spawn). Since green and red is owning 100% of their map, home is attacked by both. No blue people on red/green map.

I don’t know if this is a consequence of the beta but I now regret dead maps because there were no big squad at my spawns and I could solo defend my tower against 2-3 people. I can’t wait the end of the beta because it feels even more unbalanced and unfun to me.

 

 Edit: I don’t want to always play in big blobs because my framerate is terrible even in low graphics and I don’t feel impactful, rewarding and the fight feels really chaotic. So I’m quickly bored and prefer playing in smallers groups (5-20) so maybe my way to play wvw is just not the one that arenanet want.

I really think that keeping point should be the only way to gain points and capturing should give nothing, but it’s not beta related.

 

Second Edit :

I assume that the main goal is too have alliance similar to GW1 in long run but beta like that is just shaking everything, shouldn’t be better to release alliance system and take the risk ?

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by Ultima.5280

[yourexcellency.1458]

I think my favourite part of this beta is how our guilds leader (and driver) was assigned to a different world. The absolute best part is when they filed a ticket Anet told them sorry about your luck. I think it's great gives me more time to play D4.

[TheGrimm.5624]

11 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Hmmm well two of the matchups are kinda close 8-10 points difference, but the other two are double digits 16-27 points difference already. 🙂

https://i.imgur.com/FgCNZMl.jpg

Fair, mind you the post was at the time of reset night. 🙂 Which to be quite fair I should have made the point of to account for that, aka the time and place. I blame Chaba, too many times I rely on a sanity check from forum friends. My peeps failing me and letting me run with scissors, mistakes were made and accidents happened. Archon too but that is a different topic and Sit is slacking in leather nodes during the test, just saying. I may need to follow Freya's notes and report other action's made to the appropriate agent. Time for this slacker to join a Fun Run!. 🙂 Roamer/havoc, we be anti-social too many times. That said Zarrie breakers the rules, not sure I could use the anti-social tag there.

All that  said, and thank you to all third party sites for your hard work! Which site is providing the most valid data for the WR beta that matches what servers are seeing per the forum? Again no bashing anyone but considering the API impacts, which sites seems to have made the changes needed to handle the beta that people can use with more confidence that the results match the actual score?