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So they just nerfed scrapper for a Third (fourth?) straight time? (PvP Version)


shion.2084

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It's not like we see a lot of scrappers any more after the last three nerfs.... but yet it seems that having even one show up in MAT was a problem?

"

Kinetic Accelerators: This trait has been reworked. Apply boons to nearby allies when you successfully combo with a blast or leap finisher. Your function gyro is now a blast finisher.

"

So are they giving us back the nerf on quickness here ... but making it so we have to blast or leap?   The problem of course being that in order to do something like say attack with mortar... I'm going to have to rocket leap against a wall in one of my mortar fields first before shooting?  Or, delightfully use up my blast gyro on a field I put at my feet to shoot that ranger at 1200 range who is currently 
unblock-ably hitting me for 15k damage with its opening strike... or the Gunflame hitting me for 13k... twice... while I try to lay down fields and hop in them???? Then if I don't manage to mortar them to death in like 2 seconds I have to figure out how to re-apply this?  This is like incomprehensible in PvP, seriously WTF?

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15 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

I'm going to have to rocket leap against a wall in one of my mortar fields first before shooting?

Don't you see? This is the long awaited Turret buff! You are now recommended to use them, to have a Blast finisher with you all the time! /s

The sad thing here really is, that if Scrappers do their good old Stealth, leap, Blast Gyro, 'nade Barrage, and whatever else they want to follow up with, that is unchanged. They'll still have enough boons stacked up at the start. So the most problematic aspect -the opening burst- of the most hated Engineer build, -the 'nade scrapper- stays unchanged. Everything else need to adapt yet again.

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1 minute ago, Eddie.9143 said:

toss a mortar, combo blast + stun with function gyro, rocket leap in with blast gyro for more finishers and quickness, go stealth, use a blast finisher for more quickness/stealth, reopen. it'll play similarly 

Wait so to shoot someone with a mortar 1200 range away... I have to use my only movement skill for 2 seconds first in a blast field I burn... to hope they're still there?

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It is not a buff if they are not giving quickness back.  They are making it harder to proc the bonus, and forcing you to use valuable skills to do so.   Before you could just get superspeed and leverage the fury and might.   Now you will have to both make a field and blast/leap it before you get this benefit.  You had more sources of Super speed than you had skills that blast or leap.  Using your only movement skill to proc something that you use to get for just gaining super speed, means you are MUCH LESS FLEXIBLE.  


What this boils down to is further forcing a degenerate play style.  Because now to use this, you going to want to use up your rocket charge to proc this bonus while you are stealth ganking.   You will no longer have build options that attack from a distance. and use  builds that support those kind of options.    Its only going to further narrow options, AND make sure the one that everyone dislikes is the one that has to be used.

Even stealthing is reduced because you usually blast it at the start of stealth gyro... so then you have to hope your boons still apply by the time you get to your actual target...   


But this is absolutely a nerf and a reduction of play style viability.


EXPLAIN how needing to blast a field to get a boon you use to just get from having super speed is not a nerf to that GM trait?

 

19 minutes ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

It's a buff because kinetic Accelerators current iteration is trash. Elixers will be playable without alchemy as well, giving all engi specs strong stunbreaks. You're scrapper nerf conclusion is false. 

 

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11 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

People do use those boons offensively with hammer.  People put on superspeed then hammer 🔨 n lightning fiels

I think this change also discourages running away with superspeed while throwing grenades behind. Basically if you want fury you need to take risk and go melee.

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4 hours ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

It's a buff because kinetic Accelerators current iteration is trash. Elixers will be playable without alchemy as well, giving all engi specs strong stunbreaks. You're scrapper nerf conclusion is false. 

If you balance nerfs and buffs; is mostly big nerfs in strong skills and slight buffs on weak skills. So, overall  is a nerf.

1. They destroyed tool-kit; the second best kit aside nades. A common choice for some non-grenadier builds - BIG NERF (Losing a block, a high damage skill and a pull at the same time. Long CDs would make it useless).  Also, in adittion is such a good kit for core engineers and Holosmith. - Big nerf

2. Elixir S - The same with the first point. This is a big nerf since its coldown gonna still the same as the untraided one even if you run elixirs traitline.  - Nerf

3. Slick Shoes - This skill is also common for non grenadiers Scrapper; Core engineer and Holosmith. - Nerf

4. Kinnectic Accelerators - A Nerf since you're forced to use blast or leap finishers to active it. Things that are by hard more limited than Superspeed. - Big Nerf on an already overnerfed skill.

5.. Elixir H - Mediocre healing; no field combos, no condi cleanse, etc. CD reduction would turn it from a useless skill into an almost useless skill. Medkit is better since it gives you the same effects (except protection) but you have condition cleanse, water field, and a lower CD autohealing (if tool trait equiped) - A meh buff. Maybe Holo gonna be mo' happy with this, since turret has a high cd, medkit can't be used in holo mode and holo spec healing skill is worst than elixir h.

6- Elixir C - Maybe the only good buff; nothing to say here about the buff. But I'll say that, in current game with current classes, this isn't a big deal - Decent Buff.

7. Elixir B - Since it's mostly RNG; not a strong option even with buffs - Slight buff.

8. Elixir R- Since current meta is full of CC spammers (Chrono, Cata, Tempest, Spellbreaker, etc.) and  pulsing soft CC (immobilize and chilled). To have an extra evade, and a immobilize remover ( don't compensate to have lost a good block option like tool kit; nor have had big nerfs on super speed like several months ago. - Slight buff

9. Elixir U - Since it is already overnerfed and even its traited version still trash. 1 sec of stab; and it still have a long cd even with buff. -Slight buff

Skills that are a "Meh" even though if they're a nerf or a buff are:

1. Personal Battering Ram - NERF

2. Med Blaster (PvP only is meh; WvW nerf hits hard, sadly). - NERF

3. Elixir X - Still a very long CD. For condi core and mech it's trash. Maybe only its decent for holosmith, but I don't know if is better than light beam. Probly not.

And maybe this is a Scrapper post; but tool-kit nerfs, elixir S nerf and slicky shoes nerfs hits really hard in Core Engineer builds.

Edited by AlPower.2476
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5 minutes ago, Downstate.4697 said:

I think this change also discourages running away with superspeed while throwing grenades behind. Basically if you want fury you need to take risk and go melee.

Good luck going melee against a condi reaper or any warrior spec (especially bladesworn) with a 100%  hammer scrapper

Edited by AlPower.2476
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yes, this is what happens when you get a high speed mid range spec that can also AoE stealth, AoE super speed

and does like 7k+ damage from stealth,

has stomp/rez utility and good lockdowns.

and has top cleave.

and 2 water field, smoke field, fire field, lightning field

if you can also go fight a warrior.

you may as well throw balance out of the window.

 

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So why do you think these changes will stop the stealth build that everyone dislikes?   It only eliminates other options like the tool kit build or a ranged build.  These changes make that the only remain g way to play the class (which I personally really dislike the style of).

and are you a theif complaining about grenade barrage out of stealth?  Which has to be right on top of someone to do its damage?  Daredevil theives are a counter to scrappers if you watch good ones,  they farm them.

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18 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

yes, this is what happens when you get a high speed mid range spec that can also AoE stealth, AoE super speed

and does like 7k+ damage from stealth,

has stomp/rez utility and good lockdowns.

and has top cleave.

and 2 water field, smoke field, fire field, lightning field

if you can also go fight a warrior.

you may as well throw balance out of the window.

 

You're making a senseless comment here, since they are nerfing everything except the things that you have mentionated. 

This usually happens when someone hates a class without even knowing the least about it. 

Literally they are killing  every alternative; while the "metabattle  nade build" stills  almost the same xD

And as I said; go to fight a  good spellbreaker or a bladesworn with a 100% hammer scrapper xD

Edited by AlPower.2476
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Hah, bold of you to assume they'd compensate Scrapper by giving quickness back. 

Nah, you still recieve fury and might just like before. We can't have scrappers using delayed, interruptable combos for their quickness. That would be far too overpowered. 

Completely unlike Cata, Warrior, and Harbinger who get tons of it just by playing the way they normally would. 

 

Glad I stopped maining Engi months ago. 

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1 hour ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

engi players when their class isnt best at everything at all times 🥵

That's been ele for like a dozen patches now. 

Mech isn't allowed to be Viable. Courtesy of being an AI spec which the community hates

Holo is, finally, balanced relative to everything else. Still hits like a truck, but is much glassier than before. (Took a lot of sustain and might nerfs to get to this point)

And Scrapper has one viable build that is being propped up by Nades, and a nerf which killed bruiser playstyles while inadvertantly buffing the annoying stealth one shots that everyone hates. 

(Turns out giving Scrappers ton of easy access fury/might is a lot better for One Shots than quickness. Because the little bit you get from Chrono rune is all you need when they die in 2 seconds anyway). 

Core is a pile of garbage that can't escape the nerf bat no matter how bad it gets. 

 

Engi has been getting shafted in nearly every patch since EoD dropped. This myth that they're a dev favorite is just that. A myth. 

 

Edited by Kuma.1503
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10 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

if field effects did more interesting behavior, then it would be a buff, but fields and their effects in their current state are not worth going through the trouble to create them

It would still result in far less access to the GM effect.  
Additionally it would force you to burn movement skills and take other activities to get a buff that may be unrelated to needing the skills you just had to use to get it. 
So unless those field effects were incredible and lasted a really long time, it would not be a buff.

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25 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

It would still result in far less access to the GM effect.  
Additionally it would force you to burn movement skills and take other activities to get a buff that may be unrelated to needing the skills you just had to use to get it. 
So unless those field effects were incredible and lasted a really long time, it would not be a buff.

It would depend on what the (field) effects did. I don't necessarily believe the effects have to last a long time, or be incredible numbers wise. They would have to just have, a meaningful effect on the game state. As of right now "600 healing" or whatever it is to blast in a water field, is not worth wasting 2 skills to get that.

Same could be said about the trait itself...that the trait has to have some meaningful impact on the game state...but that would be something exclusive to just engineer...which is well...the trait could be fine if fields were actually worth using...which is what I'm saying...that they aren't worth using...and so taking the trait means you are doing something basically useless to get something useful.

The problem is with the act of placing fields, then blasting/leaping fields that causes that issue, not the trait change necessarily. 

I'll put it another way : It almost doesn't matter what the trait does, because in this state it's essentially a "buff" to creating and blasting fields. The problem is that field effects suck and take a lot of investment to exploit them so why would anyone bother to take traits that's based on using them (Fields). 

Edited by JusticeRetroHunter.7684
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Scrapper needs a redesign they play like strong thieves  without enough stealth. They open burst hard af with stuns and cc, runaway with nades until heal comes back, another round of burst and then stealth reset. Another burst that opens with tool belt nades right on top of you. It's kinda fun to play but it's cheesy just seeing how many times you need to reset and reopen to get that big one shot 

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If only they took some lessons from WOW stealth mechanics. They had real downsides, and plenty of counter play. I wouldn't mind any of the specs that can stealth in this game (even though many of the specs have no business using stealth imo) but its the fact you cannot really counter it, while it also gives a free target drop. Target drops are really powerful in the middle of group fights, especially with mesmer spam.

 

I don't know why scrapper has stealth+burst, becuse to me that is completely stepping into the thiefs area. At the same time, I don't know why thief has stealth+high raged dmg, as that stepping into rangers role. And then, I don't know why ranger has long range+high melee dmg, which is stepping into the various melee specs zone; Gw2. One of the benefits of having defined roles means you can much easier balance those roles, withought making something else within the class kitten, like scrapper.

Edited by Flowki.7194
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