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Maybe some boons should have tradeoffs


blp.3489

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It might be interesting if some boons had tradeoffs so that they facilitated different playstyles rather than straight out bonuses that eventually aren't bonuses because they have become essential.  For example, quickness speeds up skills and actions by 50%, maybe it should also have a X% damage reduction so that you have faster play but less increased damage.  More skilled players can take advantage of the faster use of skills while slower or less skilled players have a relative damage boost without the boon.  One can certainly rationalize that while you are zipping around hitting things more often you are doing less damage with each hit.

It could also be interesting if boon sharing had costs as well, just for the sake of illustration, say you get Xs of weakness when you share 25 stacks of 5s might.  Then boon support players would actually be boon support players instead of, in the case of certain classes, sharing a ton of boons while also doing good damage.  Groups would then have added consideration of whether their members would be advantaged or disadvantaged by the boon, for example, if the group consists of players that can't take advantage of quickness then you don't apply it.

With another "essential" boon like stability, maybe you would be unable to use CC while you had stability, or maybe an X% chance that a CC would fail.

If the "essential" boons had tradeoffs then the proliferation of boons wouldn't be as much of a problem and balancing would be easier.

This would be one way of addressing boons having become overly powerful as we see they are by the way they have become "essential".

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Necros are the only one which feature a tradeoff that adds conditions on themselves in order to add conditions on enemies and that's generally considered the most toxic condition class. 

So I fail to see how Anet would ever succeed with anything similar on boons. It would probably just end up buffing a boon guardian through the roof.

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I'm not proposing that boons get buffed in the process, only adding counterbalancing effects to boons, so no one would get buffed by this.

If you wanted to keep it simple just add some degree of damage reduction while under the effect of quickness, alacrity, and/or stability so that there are tradeoffs and boons become less overpowered.

Under quickness you currently get a large boost to dps, if you add a damage reduction of some percentage of that potential boost in dps the benefit is that you can use your skills faster but you get less of a dps boost.  In fact, if you have quickness but don't take advantage by using your skills quicker you actually end up with reduced dps.  This way effectively utilizing quickness requires skill instead of just giving you a perma dps boost passively applied by a teammate of one class or another.

With stability if you are one of those people, of which there seem to be many on the forum, that have the skill to dodge any and all CC you don't take stability and don't take a dps hit, but if you aren't that skilled you take stability, don't have to worry about CC, but have reduced dps.

Alternately, N seconds of quickness could be followed by N seconds of slow, or a percentage thereof.  Or to make it really interesting your burst of speed is followed by a period of weakness but that weakness can be cleansed.  Of course that uses up a cleanse so there is a tradeoff.  That would allow the highly skilled players to show off their playing prowess instead of showing off how rigidly they adhered to group composition requirements they looked up on the internet.

In a somewhat more radical vein, maybe they can change invulnerability to only delay the application of damage, once your invulnerability runs out you get hit by all, or some percentage of, the strike damage all at once and all the conditions that have been applied start ticking.  Allow condition cleanses and application of barrier while invulnerable so you can escape the burst if you can coordinate it.  This would allow you to escape back to your zerg or to a structure but not be able to prance through an enemy zerg without consequences.  Let's face it, players that prance around with extended periods of invulnerability are just annoying, there should be consequences.

Boon stripping isn't the only way to counter over-powerful boons.

Of course this should probably only apply in PVP and WVW, PVE players that have gotten used to perma-boons might not appreciate it and there is no harm in letting them be over powered vs NPCs.

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It didn't always use to be like this, back in the old days around launch boons did not last as long and required more skill and thinking to use them at the opportune moments. Which by giving them out like candy it is no surprise why we are dealing with the situation we are in now. Coupled with the fact boon removals got taken out of the game leaving some specs without their core baked thematic abilities being completely ripped out of them leaving them empty husks of what they once were for the sake of "balance" I guess🤷‍♂️ idk we all at this point are on a roller coaster ride called uncertainty as we gaze towards the unforeseen void of the next loopy loop "Balance" to come. As we try to grip tightly to our hopeium bars so we are not thrown from our seats.

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Think it is bad now, just wait for the patch, it will get worse. They nerfed the tiny bit of boon removal and made a whole bunch of changes that nobody cared about. But, the good news is that all you have to do is grp with a guard, ele and engi/vindi (make sure it is the limited specs that offer them) and just collect your perma boons and run around like you are really good. That is all it takes, just use the classes/specs that spew boons and grp them and you can win the fight. Seriously, that is all you have to do. That is what this game mode has been reduced to. We have asked for change for long time and Anet has answered "NO". Time to find another game.

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I don't think this sounds particularly fun or adds challenge to game. You could just add these features within some specs.

What I think they should do to make group buffs less dominating but still keep them impactful:

  1.  Nerf outgoing boon duration. Getting 1% boon duration for 15 stats is just too much when you share those boons with 5 people with no way to fail. Concentration should be tuned down to 1% boon duration for 25 stats.
  2. Nerf the strongest boons. Vigor, Quickness, Alacrity, Protection, Resolution are all great effects but little bit overtuned numberwise. I would suggest 20-25% nerf to all numerical boons. So protection should be 25% and Vigor 40%, Alacrity 20%.
  3. Nerf the strongest non-boon AoE buffs. This means dwarf elite, superspeed and shocking aura. Superspeed should obviously recive biggest nerf and be tuned down from +100% to +66%. Dwarf elite from 50% to 40%, etc.

Now intent of these changes wouldn't be to kill boons, just make sure people use them at right times. The potency is tuned down because there are so many more boons available that people enter godmode.

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