Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Answer this one if you can...


Joxer.6024

Recommended Posts

things are only as bad as you make them out to be. given that some of the upcoming changes have vagueness (for instance, we don't know what will happen to some traits just yet), there's no sure way to know everything will be good, bad, or neutral. 

  • Like 2
  • Confused 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mirage.8046 said:

things are only as bad as you make them out to be. given that some of the upcoming changes have vagueness (for instance, we don't know what will happen to some traits just yet), there's no sure way to know everything will be good, bad, or neutral. 

Yup, which leaves me wondering as to why folks are freaking out. Writing isnt on the wall yet.  😉

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
  • Confused 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, mirage.8046 said:

things are only as bad as you make them out to be. given that some of the upcoming changes have vagueness (for instance, we don't know what will happen to some traits just yet), there's no sure way to know everything will be good, bad, or neutral. 

"Its that time of the year again. Just be vague. I placed bets." - Canach

  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, ixon.2496 said:

"Fool me once..."

If you aren't skeptical, you have been around long enough.

This.

...and there is no point to being vague with the details if you honestly think the changes will be well received. I have played other games where the devs seemed sufficiently proud of their efforts to openly announce, in advance, the full details so that any oversight or mistake might be caught, preventing them from marring the efforts to make the game better.

  • Like 10
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There’s plenty of specs that are worse, but I don’t know that any are really better.  Druid might be better suited for Fractals if you can cover the light loss somehow?  
 

There are some new potential options for alac/quickness, but I don’t see any specs/builds that are clearly better. 
 

CMC has come into the balance role with a good reputation, but I’m not impressed.

Edited by Dahkeus.8243
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Dahkeus.8243 said:

There’s plenty of specs that are worse, but I don’t know that any are really better.  Druid might be better suited for Fractals if you can cover the light loss somehow?  
 

There are some new potential options for alac/quickness, but I don’t see any specs/builds that are clearly better. 
 

CMC has come into the balance role with a good reputation, but I’m not impressed.

so at this point there really is no clear winner, should it all go ahead as stated? Shame, but then again...balance?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

from a competitive standpoint (pvp especially) there are definitely some winners:

support druid will be better. especially the cd-reduction for celestrial avatar might make it viable in pvp

DD catalyst got some big buffs

warrior sword builds (condizerker duelist)

sword thief is probably be better now

meditrapper (dragonhunter) is a comeback candidate

mirage if the damage hasn't been butchered too much

 

in wvw-zergs scourge is getting deleted from the dps-role which opens up spaces for other ranged damage builds (dh, rev, ele, ...)

 

 

 

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only one I can see, excluding EoD specs which have never been fairly designed or balanced, is Herald.

Moving quickness from facet spamming to upkeeps is generally going to open up more diverse quickness builds, since now all of the core legends will passively grant quickness with the upkeep skills they want to use anyway. Yes burst healing will be throttled a bit, but the fact that I won't need to drag Dragon stance into every QHerald encounter, as well as be able to maintain quickness in both stances, has a lot of potential to play around with.

I disagree with nearly every other change in the balance patch, though.

Edited by Batalix.2873
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/16/2023 at 1:52 AM, DEATHsCLAW.1978 said:

from a competitive standpoint (pvp especially) there are definitely some winners:

support druid will be better. especially the cd-reduction for celestrial avatar might make it viable in pvp

DD catalyst got some big buffs

warrior sword builds (condizerker duelist)

sword thief is probably be better now

meditrapper (dragonhunter) is a comeback candidate

mirage if the damage hasn't been butchered too much

 

in wvw-zergs scourge is getting deleted from the dps-role which opens up spaces for other ranged damage builds (dh, rev, ele, ...)

 

 

 

I've seen this before. But I haven't seen anyone point to anything positive.

What do you think will be a positive in the changes for Mirage? When I look at the notes I can't find anything that would be a positive for Mirage except for the second dodge. But that does not counter the nerfs to both the Axe and Staff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

I've seen this before. But I haven't seen anyone point to anything positive.

What do you think will be a positive in the changes for Mirage? When I look at the notes I can't find anything that would be a positive for Mirage except for the second dodge. But that does not counter the nerfs to both the Axe and Staff.

the second dodge is a huge thing in pvp. if the damage is still fine (which I belive it is) then mirage will see a comeback. keep in mind it is a highly mobile version of mesmer and it also has good dueling and +1 potential. the damage nerfs to axe &staff are to make sure mirage won't be as broken as it ised to be when they released it.

overall a good comeback candidate but we'll see if the damage is enough to compete.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, DEATHsCLAW.1978 said:

the second dodge is a huge thing in pvp. if the damage is still fine (which I belive it is) then mirage will see a comeback. keep in mind it is a highly mobile version of mesmer and it also has good dueling and +1 potential. the damage nerfs to axe &staff are to make sure mirage won't be as broken as it ised to be when they released it.

overall a good comeback candidate but we'll see if the damage is enough to compete.

They aren't speeding up the Endurance regeneration. So they won't be able to dodge more often.

They will only be able to dodge one extra time at the beginning of combat.

It's really more of a QoL change. It won't be making them more capable or powerful.

But the Mirage was pummeled with changes to remove damage reduction and damage.

Without any reducing in power it would not be broken like it was on release. Mirage has already been nerfed a lot over the past years.

 

Definitely not a comeback candidate. Getting a single extra Dodge in a combat will be in no way able to counter the nerfs to their damage and defenses. Removing the Dodge during CC already will be more punishing to the class than receiving the extra Dodge will be. The additional nerfs are just beating a dead horse.

 

Mirage was very frustrating to play against. But it was not so powerful to deserve the nerfs it got to everything this patch.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/15/2023 at 10:56 AM, Joxer.6024 said:

Yup, which leaves me wondering as to why folks are freaking out. Writing isnt on the wall yet.  😉

Yes nothing is written on the wall yet , but we got a glimpse of what could happen , and even if bad design will be cancelled (like scourge f1 reduced duration to 8 sec , i really hope...) the devs make the community freak out because they put it on a paper and showed it to the community without thinking.

When i firstly saw the infamous patch about the warrior banners back in the day , banners with cluncky quickness provider and very few offensiv boons with the weird mechanic of being able to be taken and droped where the fight continues , with 0 weapon skills equiped once grabbed ... you know the devs can come up with stupid ideas and actually make them live on the game .

Just who the hell in the players and even the devs finded that rework actually good or even decent ? that was uber dope garbage tier rework , and we are near that with the scourge "rework" , i mean even the basic scourge player , who had read just once the traitline , know he needs 3 shades to get full benefit of all his minor traits... 1 shade active at a time , make those traits 66% less efficient and  just kill one of the most fun aspect of the scourge , his base mechanic , it's just like you remove 66% of the stats of the mecaniste's mech ... thats dumb.

So devs are able to amaze us , positively or negatively , think the mainstream of active players is for the 2nd answer for this patch.

Some other changes are good btw , looking forward to druid , herald and specter . But hell i am never gonna touch my scourge again if the sand shade is on a 8 sec duration ...

Edited by zeyeti.8347
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

They aren't speeding up the Endurance regeneration. So they won't be able to dodge more often.

They will only be able to dodge one extra time at the beginning of combat.

It's really more of a QoL change. It won't be making them more capable or powerful.

But the Mirage was pummeled with changes to remove damage reduction and damage.

Without any reducing in power it would not be broken like it was on release. Mirage has already been nerfed a lot over the past years.

 

Definitely not a comeback candidate. Getting a single extra Dodge in a combat will be in no way able to counter the nerfs to their damage and defenses. Removing the Dodge during CC already will be more punishing to the class than receiving the extra Dodge will be. The additional nerfs are just beating a dead horse.

 

Mirage was very frustrating to play against. But it was not so powerful to deserve the nerfs it got to everything this patch.

why would they speed up the endurance regen? 

the removal of dodging while disabled is 100% justified. it was so broken to begin with. mirage can now dodge like other classes can with the exeption of being able to attack while doing so (which is very powerful!)

& mirage got it's damage nerfed in the big damage nerf where all specs got their damage reduced across the board in competitive. just to put the "nerfs to damage over the last years" into perspective.

is it gonna struggle with the damage nerf to axe this patch? probably but I'm positive some mesmer mains will find a way to play it at high level 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You will notice the same phenomenon as with every single game-breaking change we had for the past years. The meta will not drastically change. Some builds may drop out, some new may enter, but the majority of the builds remains in position. There will be a few minor adjustments with gear-stats and maybe runes/sigils of a handful of builds, but I doubt the meta will be much different before and after the patch.

I've been told this countless of times that the upcoming patch will DESTROY GW2 completely. The soil will split wide open and devour the living in absolute darkness. It will be raining fire and ice, not a single raid will be able to be cleared ... anyone who remembers the big chronomancer boonshare nerf? Signet of Inspiration? Doomsday! And that was only one skill. Neither the chronomancers left the meta-groups, nor did the content become impossible to complete after that patch. Fascinating, isn't it? XD

But on the forums, it is always evil incompetent ANet who destroy their own game. It has always been like that and it will never change. The older I get, the less I care. ^^

  • Like 1
  • Confused 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, DEATHsCLAW.1978 said:

why would they speed up the endurance regen? 

the removal of dodging while disabled is 100% justified. it was so broken to begin with. mirage can now dodge like other classes can with the exeption of being able to attack while doing so (which is very powerful!)

& mirage got it's damage nerfed in the big damage nerf where all specs got their damage reduced across the board in competitive. just to put the "nerfs to damage over the last years" into perspective.

is it gonna struggle with the damage nerf to axe this patch? probably but I'm positive some mesmer mains will find a way to play it at high level 

Oh I support the removal of dodging while under CC. That was an absurd design decision and should have been gotten rid of long ago... If you really want to dodge while disabled then you can just use a Utility skill to stunbreak like everyone else.

I'm also saying that they shouldn't increase Endurance regeneration for Mirages. What I'm saying is that adding the second dodge will have a completely negligible effect on the power and capability of the Mirage. The removal of dodging while CC is more of a nerf to the classes power than getting 1 more Dodge in combat is a boon.

So on the dodging side the Mirage is less powerful than before because now they are limited by CC.

Everything else is on top of that though. And it is far excessive.

 

I'm sure that there will be SOME Mesmer players that will still be able to play the class and come out alright. But the class isn't balanced when it takes one of the top 5% of players just to be able to beat up on one of the worst players in another class.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

Oh I support the removal of dodging while under CC. That was an absurd design decision and should have been gotten rid of long ago... If you really want to dodge while disabled then you can just use a Utility skill to stunbreak like everyone else.

I'm also saying that they shouldn't increase Endurance regeneration for Mirages. What I'm saying is that adding the second dodge will have a completely negligible effect on the power and capability of the Mirage. The removal of dodging while CC is more of a nerf to the classes power than getting 1 more Dodge in combat is a boon.

So on the dodging side the Mirage is less powerful than before because now they are limited by CC.

Everything else is on top of that though. And it is far excessive.

 

I'm sure that there will be SOME Mesmer players that will still be able to play the class and come out alright. But the class isn't balanced when it takes one of the top 5% of players just to be able to beat up on one of the worst players in another class.

This the way. (Not including the hyperbole at the end.)

Extending the dodge bar for mirages in PVP modes is a wonderful QoL issue and will make dodging a bit more dynamic in those game modes. Losing the ability to dodge while under CC is a strict tradeoff and will sufficiently limit dodging in all games modes. In light of this balance tradeoff, the nerfs to the ambush skills are excessive. In PVE, this patch a straight, heavy nerf.

  • Like 3
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

From PvE standpoint, the patch feels… underwhelming. If they wanted to see how removing the CD reduction would work, it should have been done last patch, so if anything is broken it gets fixed timely. And some of these traits will need rework.

From the classes I mainly play, rev, guardian and mesmer, rev was in a good place just needing rework of hammer and shield. Instead Anet is kittening around with herald. Guardian, WB has many issues. It has issues in flow, long casts and bad utilities. None of that was even considered. And Anet is still fumbling around with FB, for the 27472948 patch. Mesmer, it seems Anet is on a crusade to destroy staff. The confusion change should be really good for axe mirage. Power virtouso sustain is still pretty bad. 

Sure, balance is okayish. I am more interested in some fixes to under utilized weapons. However, that does not seem to be on the agenda. And PvP balance is still a dumpster fire:

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

This the way. (Not including the hyperbole at the end.)

Extending the dodge bar for mirages in PVP modes is a wonderful QoL issue and will make dodging a bit more dynamic in those game modes. Losing the ability to dodge while under CC is a strict tradeoff and will sufficiently limit dodging in all games modes. In light of this balance tradeoff, the nerfs to the ambush skills are excessive. In PVE, this patch a straight, heavy nerf.

  Concur here.

I understand why CC dodge would be removed in PvP.

For PvE, Mirage still struggles to keep up DPS alongside Virt. Virt can just spam an easy rotation at range, minimal resource management, and generally avoid mechanics and keep DPS uptime. Axe mirage has to spend a lot of its time within melee range between autoattacks, Axe 3, and depending on how you use Jaunt, Illusionary Ambush,  Mirage Advance, or Signet of Midnight/Domination if you slot them. On top of that, it has to build and maintain three clones, and properly time ambushes on those clones despite the clones not maintaining alac/quickness like you do. Furthermore, aside from the mostly forgotten power shatter Mirage, Mirage is almost always condi and is one of the slowest damage builders in the game.

Mirage forces you to work for your DPS. I don't think it is broken in PvE in the slightest, even before this nerf. Not when Virt players routinely outperform me because they (a) don't need to interact with most melee mechanics and (b) have a much more consistent source of "clone" ammo that doesn't disappear in between mobs.

As for WvW, I'm torn but would probably lean toward also not nerfing dodges. Mirage still struggles to manage clones which is a uniquely Mirage thing that Chrono and Virt don't need to worry about. And the blob zergs are so quick to pile damage onto a specific point that I think ANY class with options to evade or negate damage is in theory good for maintaining counterplays against a pretty oppressive and boring meta.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...