Yo CMC - the ele empire is here - all classes lose viability in the face of ele

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

@Trevor Boyer.6524

Yo thought I'd share with you my updated support Druid Build.

I didn't realize just how trash Windborne Notes was until i actually read it, so I dropped it for Evasive Purity which is honestly top 5 traits in the game easily.  Absolutely busted trait IMO and I'm loving it. I also didn't realize how strong spirits are in teamfights with Nature's Vengeance. You said you preferred an offensive Druid build and Storm Spirit does exactly that. It's completely cracked in teamfights and does a ton of damage along with its double daze. 

Unfortunately you need to drop Search and Rescue teleport to make room for Storm Spirit, but I think it's 100% worth since Evasive Purity allows you to exclusively use Glyph of Stars for rezzing. It's not required for self condi clear, although it is still strong in teamfights ofc outside of rezzing. 

[Burnfall.9573]

Unkillable -  Never Dies

""Yeah this is a bad one. Ranked is borderline unplayable at the moment on anything other than signet catalyst. The new cata build has infinite stab and cleanse, great mobility, is super tanky, and does 5k AOE burn ticks while sharing boons to the whole team. It needs a hotfix now or people are going to stop playing."

[Shagie.7612]

5 minutes ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

It needs a hotfix now or people are going to stop playing.

bit late for that lol

 

even in unranked it's awful, they're everywhere
trying to do a couple matches for dailies? no fun allowed

 

[Dreams.3128]

On 7/7/2023 at 1:19 PM, Flowki.7194 said:

Ahhh, now your motivations are clear.

What are you actually talking about? To make the class not something that relies on band-aid fixes or overnerfs? Actually making it into a stable class? Yea, I've been making my motivations clear for awhile.

[Flowki.7194]

2 hours ago, Dreams.3128 said:

What are you actually talking about? To make the class not something that relies on band-aid fixes or overnerfs? Actually making it into a stable class? Yea, I've been making my motivations clear for awhile.

I may have jumped the gun, but its not uncommon for begruntled weaver mains to smack talk about tempest and cata, just becuase weaver isn't ''great''

[Shush in NA.9182]

Flowki the hidden CmC smurf still on it? Trying to convince ppl that ele is hard to play and not as op as ppl make it xD

Edited July 9, 2023 by CK rimeiller.5014

[Dreams.3128]

4 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I may have jumped the gun, but its not uncommon for begruntled weaver mains to smack talk about tempest and cata, just becuase weaver isn't ''great''

As disgruntled as I am, I understand that Ele is just that class that needs a hard rework. Nerfing Cata probably won't be the end of it, and nerfing something WRONG and not something right is far more detrimental than actually properly balancing the whole to then go on to properly balance all three of the specs. This same issue happened with classes like Engineer and technically IS still happening with Engineer for example. Every build overelying on Grenades sound familiar? Everyone complains about it. Only reason Engi is obviously not brought up is because it didn't get overbuffed. 

Same with classes like Rev, Mesmer, or Warrior. Overbuff them they absolutely dominate. Nerf a lot of pointless crap and they become useless for months, counting years. Only classes that don't follow that trend is Ranger because SURPRISINGLY Ranger actually has very solid core traits and skills that make it balanced when its traits are in line. Only time Ranger has gotten out of line was during Boonbeast era when the pet and traits were out of wack. Other than that though? Can't say Ranger was so oppressively dominate compared to classes that had their shine like Rev, Mesmer, Warrior, Ele and so on. 

Clearly, a lot of these classes need to have their cores revamped, reworked, tweaked, and adjusted so we don't keep having builds like Signet Cata, Immortal Mal Stance Renegade, Mirage belching out clones when it was overtuned, or Forever Sustaining Bladesworns that just spammed shouts and healed to full when it was untouched. 

[Flowki.7194]

14 minutes ago, CK rimeiller.5014 said:

Flowki the hidden CmC smurf still on it? Trying to convince ppl that ele is hard to play and not as op as ppl make it xD

Lies, twisted context, and ad-hominon attack. I truly applaud your ability to fit so much toxicity into one sentence, thats a real talent.

[Flowki.7194]

40 minutes ago, Dreams.3128 said:

As disgruntled as I am, I understand that Ele is just that class that needs a hard rework. Nerfing Cata probably won't be the end of it, and nerfing something WRONG and not something right is far more detrimental than actually properly balancing the whole to then go on to properly balance all three of the specs. This same issue happened with classes like Engineer and technically IS still happening with Engineer for example. Every build overelying on Grenades sound familiar? Everyone complains about it. Only reason Engi is obviously not brought up is because it didn't get overbuffed. 

Same with classes like Rev, Mesmer, or Warrior. Overbuff them they absolutely dominate. Nerf a lot of pointless crap and they become useless for months, counting years. Only classes that don't follow that trend is Ranger because SURPRISINGLY Ranger actually has very solid core traits and skills that make it balanced when its traits are in line. Only time Ranger has gotten out of line was during Boonbeast era when the pet and traits were out of wack. Other than that though? Can't say Ranger was so oppressively dominate compared to classes that had their shine like Rev, Mesmer, Warrior, Ele and so on. 

Clearly, a lot of these classes need to have their cores revamped, reworked, tweaked, and adjusted so we don't keep having builds like Signet Cata, Immortal Mal Stance Renegade, Mirage belching out clones when it was overtuned, or Forever Sustaining Bladesworns that just spammed shouts and healed to full when it was untouched. 

The CK guy above is a prime example of the point you are somewhat making. People can not bring themselves to admit that the mechanics of this game are hyper casual.. so as soon as you buff something, it allows for something like scrapper, which spues out a rediculess amount of damage for next to no effort. Ele WAS a more complicated class, but even I have conceded multiple times that this new signet loadout is absolutely rediculous (on both cata and dps tempest), in what DAMAGE it achieves for so few buttons (tempest does not get free stability, whole different playstyle required). Any newb can sit in fire stance and spam signets for stability/sustain while simply auto attacking. In 1v1, these newbs are easy kills, but the better the cata (at actually playing the other attunements properly) the more rediculous it is. Playing it to its full potential is still harder than power necro.. but condi cata is WAY more effective.. as the core of what makes it work (signet stability spam) is even easier for newbs to do well vs other newbs, than the core of power necro (press reap for easy sustain,stability,dmg, which requires spamming some AOE firs.. not hard, but takes more time).

 

I keep saying this in multiple threads, but nobody seems to be able to look past there own bias.

 

If people continue like this, and keep trying to completely gut ele.. I an garuntee nobody will like the new meta. Condi cata 100% needs fixed. However, over correcting might well kill tempets and power cata. Tempest keeps ranged classes in check (melee are going to get ranged weapons), which is handy when a temest is on your team. Power cata can escape the likes of SB, and by not getting pinned down, allows it to kill the XYZ class that is currently killing your support. Furthermore, tempest and power cata are some of the more complicated specs in this game (not that anybody can bring themself to admit it), meaning there is more room for error, making it easier to punish for mistakes. Would you like ele to be gutted to the point tempest falls into the ''just another useless support'' and cata gets stripped ''just another useless power spec''.. and the new meta is essentailly rangers, unavoidalbe melee dps with bows and/or SB's stunlocking everything. The meta may not shift exactly like this, but you know what I mean. I will quit this game if SB becomes S-tier.. stunlocking for that little effort is the most toxic thing I have ever seen in a pvp game.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Shush in NA.9182]

40 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Lies, twisted context, and ad-hominon attack. I truly applaud your ability to fit so much toxicity into one sentence, thats a real talent.

The answer to the other dude shows that you might put a bit too much into my comment. I would not disagree that gw2 is an highly casual game and ele is for sure a very casual friendly class the moment you learnt the buttons.

I was just in short describing what (imo) you do in the comments i bothered to read from you (for example arguing that ele is somewhat in the higehr end of skill cap, what is pretty wrong, it has a bit higher skill floor than, lets say a necro, but that is all). 

The only part of my comment can be taken as toxic would be the cmc smurf part and i think, if it is such a drama for a player to be called a cmc smurf, then cmc should start thinking. It was indeed meant as a little sidekick, not gonna lie, but it is also not overly toxic, since the relation is just the ele fetish you both seems to have. That is also just describing my observation. 

[Dreams.3128]

45 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

The CK guy above is a prime example of the point you are somewhat making. People can not bring themselves to admit that the mechanics of this game are hyper casual.. so as soon as you buff something, it allows for something like scrapper, which spues out a rediculess amount of damage for next to no effort. Ele WAS a more complicated class, but even I have conceded multiple times that this new signet loadout is absolutely rediculous (on both cata and dps tempest), in what DAMAGE it achieves for so few buttons (tempest does not get free stability, whole different playstyle required). Any newb can sit in fire stance and spam signets for stability/sustain while simply auto attacking. In 1v1, these newbs are easy kills, but the better the cata (at actually playing the other attunements properly) the more rediculous it is. Playing it to its full potential is still harder than power necro.. but condi cata is WAY more effective.. as the core of what makes it work (signet stability spam) is even easier for newbs to do well vs other newbs, than the core of power necro (press reap for easy sustain,stability,dmg, which requires spamming some AOE firs.. not hard, but takes more time).

 

I keep saying this in multiple threads, but nobody seems to be able to look past there own bias.

 

If people continue like this, and keep trying to completely gut ele.. I an garuntee nobody will like the new meta. Condi cata 100% needs fixed. However, over correcting might well kill tempets and power cata. Tempest keeps ranged classes in check (melee are going to get ranged weapons), which is handy when a temest is on your team. Power cata can escape the likes of SB, and by not getting pinned down, allows it to kill the XYZ class that is currently killing your support. Furthermore, tempest and power cata are some of the more complicated specs in this game (not that anybody can bring themself to admit it), meaning there is more room for error, making it easier to punish for mistakes. Would you like ele to be gutted to the point tempest falls into the ''just another useless support'' and cata gets stripped ''just another useless power spec''.. and the new meta is essentailly rangers, unavoidalbe melee dps with bows and/or SB's stunlocking everything. The meta may not shift exactly like this, but you know what I mean. I will quit this game if SB becomes S-tier.. stunlocking for that little effort is the most toxic thing I have ever seen in a pvp game.

People seem to forget the massively unfun metas outside of the memorable ones because they were maining the FoTM. Spellbreaker meta? Bad. Power Herald meta before Renegade and Vindi? Bad. The small window when we had condi daredevil overperforming? Bad. Holosmith era? Bad. Which fun fact, those holosmith nerfs costed Engie TONS of stab that hit both scrapper and core engie because people were too dumb to realize it was a Holo problem synergizing with a very specific trait.

Nobody wants to talk about those times and everyone right now, because Ele is the 'bad guy' at the moment, will ever bring up those times until Ele as a class is nerf utterly. I will promise you and you can even quote me, something just as bad as Signet Cata will pop up after it gets its eventual nerfs and we will be in the SAME exact position with the SAME exact people writing essay after essay after essay about why the whole class needs to get nerfed instead of suggesting things that will FIX the classes as a whole.

But trust me, a lot of these people DON'T listen anymore, and they will not listen. They will continue to not listen until they finally quit. Be happy that you're one of the few that think beyond just: "This class is op nerf it completely" because these folks are not gonna get out of this PVP matrix that they are stuck in.

@CK rimeiller.5014 Cute statement, especially because of the fact that if you even read half of what is being said you will understand that while Ele is the shining star and I happen to be a Weaver main, I am actually pointing out a bigger issue that has taken place across not just Ele, but classes LIKE Ele. But I get it, you see the big red Ele symbol and then your brain defaults to "dumb ele main defending their class". Don't worry I've seen plenty of Ranger, Rev, Mes, Warrior and even Necro mains try to defend their classes to their grave when it was their turn to see their class gutted. I'll be happy to show the plethora of Warrior mains that were QQing about Warrior being 'bottom tier' while also having one of the strongest 1v1 class at the time. Seriously, the people that linger on this forum is a kittening joke.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Dreams.3128

[Shush in NA.9182]

37 minutes ago, Dreams.3128 said:

@CK rimeiller.5014 Cute statement, especially because of the fact that if you even read half of what is being said you will understand that while Ele is the shining star and I happen to be a Weaver main, I am actually pointing out a bigger issue that has taken place across not just Ele, but classes LIKE Ele. But I get it, you see the big red Ele symbol and then your brain defaults to "dumb ele main defending their class". Don't worry I've seen plenty of Ranger, Rev, Mes, Warrior and even Necro mains try to defend their classes to their grave when it was their turn to see their class gutted. I'll be happy to show the plethora of Warrior mains that were QQing about Warrior being 'bottom tier' while also having one of the strongest 1v1 class at the time. Seriously, the people that linger on this forum is a kittening joke.

I play all classes, ele was even my first i started the game with. So no bias to see here. I also just read some of his comments and there wasn't even any interpretation needed, he was quite clear in his words. Means also there it is not about me just red flagging any main out of nowhere. I wrote my pov and you can disagree but don't try to make it look like only based on bias instead having reasons based on what he wrote. That is a pretty poor tactical behavior. That the whole game and other classes too are a big issue is not wrong and just because i do not write everything that is wrong on other classes too when i react to his ele posts doesn't mean i deny them. Pretty narrowed to think like that tbh. 

 

Quote

I am actually pointing out a bigger issue that has taken place across not just Ele, but classes LIKE Ele

Btw who was talking about what you or others in the thread wrote? I don't see any relation to that. I was not talking about the thread being onesided ele mains defending the class, i was talking about Flowki only. Or are you another acc from Flowki? Otherwise it doesn't make sense to write this. 

Edited July 9, 2023 by CK rimeiller.5014

[Leonidrex.5649]

weaver is equally degen to cata if not more-so.
I remember when weaver was auto-win on sidelanes and I was looking for counterplay to beat them, went through everything they had to try and find a weakness, there wasnt none.
all the dodges, heals, barriers are 100% non-interactive. So unless your build is idiotic enough to actually push through 10 different barriers and insane healing you wont kill a weaver ever.
but hey, many buttons = hard Copium

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

18 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

Unkillable -  Never Dies

""Yeah this is a bad one. Ranked is borderline unplayable at the moment on anything other than signet catalyst. The new cata build has infinite stab and cleanse, great mobility, is super tanky, and does 5k AOE burn ticks while sharing boons to the whole team. It needs a hotfix now or people are going to stop playing."

Burnfall linking a problematic build from this year is crazy

💀 💀  💀 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

On 7/3/2023 at 11:49 AM, schloumou.3982 said:

I'm not active atm. What happend to make one of the worst specs S-Tier now?

He put core ele above every thief spec, above untamed, and almost on par with chrono and bladesworn. I wouldnt put much thought into that list.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

He put core ele above every thief spec, above untamed, and almost on par with chrono and bladesworn. I wouldnt put much thought into that list.

Its about a 7. In as much as it functions better than... say, core engie and core thief but worse than daredevil.

Just assume he's not over swirling winds. He is a ranger main, so he's heavy handed toward projectile hate like I am with mesmer interrupts, being a warrior gremlin.

The list is not perfect, but it's close enough, if you account for where there may be bias. Weaver, tempest and cata all have high functioning builds atm.

Scourge might also be higher than a 6 atm, but I'll let yall figure that out. 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Update on Catalyst complaint thread count:

1. Disable cata until you nerf it - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
2. Ele is fine. You should just play better. - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
3. Ele destroys PvP please for the shake of Love turn down this class - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
4. Ele Scepter Fire auto-attack is really stupid design - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
5. History behind cmc's balancing decisions and policies - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
6. Sword cata is op - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
7. nerf cata and only cata - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
8. Is Catalyst too strong in PvP? - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
9. Unkillable builds - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
10. Time to balance aura duration by power level? - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
11. Ele Bias? - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
12. bye bye - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
13. Signet Cata more OP than FA Cata at its peak [Nerf Suggestions] - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
14. Don't be mad when ele outskills you. - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
15. Cata Nerf When? - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
16. Arena seems kind of empty after beta - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
17. Cata is a joke - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
18. june 18th catalyst nerfs preview - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
19. [Poll] Revert the June 27th patch - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
20. The State of PvP - "This is really really unfortunate" - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
21. Please take urgent action and address Catalyst before July 18th - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
22. Brief History Of Elementalist Patching - A Highlight Of Overperformance & Balance Neglect - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
23. CMC should be embarrased - Page 3 - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
24. Yo CMC - the ele empire is here - all classes lose viability in the face of ele - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
25. Elementalist crisis - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums

Ok that list was so long, I just learned that it caps your bullets at 25 and makes you start new list. Let's pick it up in next post:

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Continuation from previous:

1. Merged Thread - Elementalist is overpreforming in structured PVP - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
2. Is anet just completely clueless or do they not care? How is signet cata still not nerfed? - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
3. Most overpowered builds ever in PvP? - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
4. A Boraquan Dev shares his thoughts on PvP - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
5. Disabled due to degenerate gameplay. - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
6. DONT LISTEN TO THIS ANTI-CMC PROPAGANDA - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
7. A Boraquan Dev shares his thoughts on PvP - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums

There are 32 Ele complaint threads.

Entire pvp subforum is currently comprised of only Elementalist dicussion, complaint, and meme threads.

Anyone paying attention in the Arenanet office?

Feels like you guys are purposely ignoring this out of some kind of sarcastic response to trigger irony or something.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Zekent.3652]

They better fix this giga busted ele meta for the 18th patch inc.

This is such a joke, almost 3 weeks with this joke already. 

[Nepster.4275]

On 7/11/2023 at 4:12 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Continuation from previous:

1. Merged Thread - Elementalist is overpreforming in structured PVP - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
2. Is anet just completely clueless or do they not care? How is signet cata still not nerfed? - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
3. Most overpowered builds ever in PvP? - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
4. A Boraquan Dev shares his thoughts on PvP - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
5. Disabled due to degenerate gameplay. - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
6. DONT LISTEN TO THIS ANTI-CMC PROPAGANDA - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums
7. A Boraquan Dev shares his thoughts on PvP - Player vs. Player - Guild Wars 2 Forums

There are 32 Ele complaint threads.

Entire pvp subforum is currently comprised of only Elementalist dicussion, complaint, and meme threads.

Anyone paying attention in the Arenanet office?

Feels like you guys are purposely ignoring this out of some kind of sarcastic response to trigger irony or something.

They are not ignoring it, just C🤡C 

[Greyrat.2378]

At least we are getting some fun content out of it.

[Chromazene.4807]

[deleted]

Edited January 14 by Enduronex.4865

[Dorsai.1458]

On 7/9/2023 at 8:27 AM, Flowki.7194 said:

The CK guy above is a prime example of the point you are somewhat making. People can not bring themselves to admit that the mechanics of this game are hyper casual.. so as soon as you buff something, it allows for something like scrapper, which spues out a rediculess amount of damage for next to no effort. Ele WAS a more complicated class, but even I have conceded multiple times that this new signet loadout is absolutely rediculous (on both cata and dps tempest), in what DAMAGE it achieves for so few buttons (tempest does not get free stability, whole different playstyle required). Any newb can sit in fire stance and spam signets for stability/sustain while simply auto attacking. In 1v1, these newbs are easy kills, but the better the cata (at actually playing the other attunements properly) the more rediculous it is. Playing it to its full potential is still harder than power necro.. but condi cata is WAY more effective.. as the core of what makes it work (signet stability spam) is even easier for newbs to do well vs other newbs, than the core of power necro (press reap for easy sustain,stability,dmg, which requires spamming some AOE firs.. not hard, but takes more time).

 

I keep saying this in multiple threads, but nobody seems to be able to look past there own bias.

 

If people continue like this, and keep trying to completely gut ele.. I an garuntee nobody will like the new meta. Condi cata 100% needs fixed. However, over correcting might well kill tempets and power cata. Tempest keeps ranged classes in check (melee are going to get ranged weapons), which is handy when a temest is on your team. Power cata can escape the likes of SB, and by not getting pinned down, allows it to kill the XYZ class that is currently killing your support. Furthermore, tempest and power cata are some of the more complicated specs in this game (not that anybody can bring themself to admit it), meaning there is more room for error, making it easier to punish for mistakes. Would you like ele to be gutted to the point tempest falls into the ''just another useless support'' and cata gets stripped ''just another useless power spec''.. and the new meta is essentailly rangers, unavoidalbe melee dps with bows and/or SB's stunlocking everything. The meta may not shift exactly like this, but you know what I mean. I will quit this game if SB becomes S-tier.. stunlocking for that little effort is the most toxic thing I have ever seen in a pvp game.

You try so hard to convice yourself that elem and cata in particular are hard to play.  No ...it is not.  Make up your mind ...is Guild Wars hyper casual or mechanically hard?  Signet Cata is not hard.  What's hard is to actually lose a 1v1 as a sig cata.  Signets are overbloated as hell and it makes this build super easy to play.  Anything you say to the contrary is biased.  Don't know if it was always this way, but I now see hammer catas running the same signet build.  Fire tree might slightly be diff, but most are running the exact same layout in earth and cata.  So you tell me what class can freely swap between melee and ranged main weaps without touching their skill tree?

Metabattle even rates this build as "easy" to play.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

30 minutes ago, Dorsai.1458 said:

Signets are overbloated as hell and it makes this build super easy to play.

Although this is true, do not lose sight to how bloated everything on Ele in general is.

Long before Written In Stone and Scepter 1 spam, we still had Hammer Catas and Tempest Supports holding the top 2 meta slots.

The issues with Ele go very deep. It needs full class-wide significant nerfing to Core, Tempest, and Catalyst.

Weaver is the only one that's balanced, but the Core buffing makes even Weaver bloated.

[Downstate.4697]

Just now, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Although this is true, do not lose sight to how bloated everything on Ele in general is.

Long before Written In Stone and Scepter 1 spam, we still had Hammer Catas and Tempest Supports holding the top 2 meta slots.

The issues with Ele go very deep. It needs full class-wide significant nerfing to Core, Tempest, and Catalyst.

Weaver is the only one that's balanced, but the Core buffing makes even Weaver bloated.

What justification you got for nerfing core ele?