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Ele and Bladesworn


Zekent.3652

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Ele: it's doing pretty well and yet you guys decided to buff it once again, like we didn't had a 5 catas meta a couple months ago. Ele is a strong support, teamfighter, sidenoder and roammer already and you guys decided to give it some free auras and more, cata design is obnoxious, AoEs puke spam and good sustain.

Bladesworn: if you wanna make this spec good, making it a selfheal bot is NOT the answer. I'm afraid that you're not nerfing BSW selfheal because of tactics trying to force the healer role on spellbreaker, stop it, warrior was clearly not designed for that, if you wanna give warrior the healer role, then just do it with an spec that complements it, and a core traitline that does NOT makes this class a bunker selfheal bot.

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7 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Bladesworn: if you wanna make this spec good, making it a selfheal bot is NOT the answer. I'm afraid that you're not nerfing BSW selfheal because of tactics trying to force the healer role on spellbreaker, stop it, warrior was clearly not designed for that, if you wanna give warrior the healer role, then just do it with an spec that complements it, and a core traitline that does NOT makes this class a bunker selfheal bot.

That would require a support MH for warrior that does not exist in the game's current state. Tactics as it is can be easily turned into a great heal spec on it's own with a few tweaks:

  • Vigorous Shouts heal other allies more than the warrior.
  • Mending Might heals allies the warrior grants might too.
  • Marching Order's has it's ICD removed.
    • Martial Cadence has it's own 10s ICD
  • Soldier's Comfort's heal and incoming protection on June 27th made to scale based on adrenaline spent with a lower duration on Protection at T1 (like 1s, 4s at T3) and a low base healing and low scaling at T1, with moderate base healing and scaling at T3. Not putting specific numbers there, but certainly not more than 1000 HP at T1 with 500 healing power and not more than 2500 at T3 with 500 healing power. To hold back any bunkering there could be a healing penalty on the heals the warrior gives themself from the trait.

Changing Mending Might and Soldier's Comfort in that way would probably make needing a MH support weapon redundant. 

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29 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Bladesworn: if you wanna make this spec good, making it a selfheal bot is NOT the answer. I'm afraid that you're not nerfing BSW selfheal because of tactics trying to force the healer role on spellbreaker, stop it, warrior was clearly not designed for that, if you wanna give warrior the healer role, then just do it with an spec that complements it, and a core traitline that does NOT makes this class a bunker selfheal bot.

I wonder if u know that defense bswn is way better than  shout spam, seems not.. so its not just "kill tactics" and its fine

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11 hours ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

yes the earth traitline is free definitely slots into existing cata builds very easily

Well... your right.... but its not about Cata this time.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAs2lZwaYasLGJOyPntdA-z5YXGJUA9mAGPAA

Try this when the patch hits and tell me if you think its even remotely balanced.

Edited by Sahne.6950
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13 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Huh... tactics has better might pump and selfheal.

You get a lot more cleanses and the difference in heals is not too big because of AH + you get reflects on demand because of aegis. AND the biggest benefit is resistance (which helps you to not get cucked where you were cucked on tactics - blinds, chills, weakness,cripple -> vs cata/untamed and whatnot) on evades and u get TONS of evades because of self might (self-might is not much better on tactics just a tiny bit because shout has 5s less cd, after the patch they are gonna be even cuz shouts get buffed and CDR is being applied globally).

TLRD defense ----->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tactics

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Couldn’t agree more - there are specs that don’t see competitive play at all and ArenaNet seriously decided to rework most Elementalist weapons & elite specs over the span of one year despite it being competitive meta and having multiple viable elite specs. And now they wonder, why most people dislike this patch 

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13 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

**** you not I whinced and jumped back a bit when I clicked on this and looked at it.

Can't wait.

Pretty sure we are approaching a Tempest support+Tempest sidenoder meta.

but i´ve been saying this before... so take it with a grain of salt.

Edited by Sahne.6950
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48 minutes ago, GuriGashi.5617 said:

Couldn’t agree more - there are specs that don’t see competitive play at all and ArenaNet seriously decided to rework most Elementalist weapons & elite specs over the span of one year despite it being competitive meta and having multiple viable elite specs. And now they wonder, why most people dislike this patch 

Just nuke catalyst and everybody will be happy.

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1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Pretty sure we are approaching a Tempest support+Tempest sidenoder meta.

but i´ve been saying this before... so take it with a grain of salt.

I'm actually going to steal your build and start practicing it today.

Looks more in line in with my tastes for Ele. I don't like Catalyst & Weaver for some reason.

I only ever could tolerate Tempest play.

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7 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I'm actually going to steal your build and start practicing it today.

Looks more in line in with my tastes for Ele. I don't like Catalyst & Weaver for some reason.

I only ever could tolerate Tempest play.

If you're up for meme builds then fire/earth scepter weaver is a thing. Earth gives increased sustain and it can do some decent condi damage from range. Drawback is lack of swiftness so it's very slow and clunky. But can go head-to-head against bladesworns, spellbreakers and untamed on sidenodes. Good against any power build.

Also, easy to pick up for new players because all you need to do is cycle between fire and earth.

Edited by Frequency.6407
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Bladesworn is not complicated at all, neither is SB, there is no justification to buff these specs unless they are made harder to play. Sorry but I also find SB one of the most toxic specs to fight against, it does not take a great deal of skill to become a stun locking, boon stripping annoyence, while they don't exactly ''carry games''. They just slow the game down in a bad way, for very little effort.

Edited by Flowki.7194
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17 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I'm actually going to steal your build and start practicing it today.

Looks more in line in with my tastes for Ele. I don't like Catalyst & Weaver for some reason.

I only ever could tolerate Tempest play.

Welcome to the mariostar Club. 

Just pretend like your cele, and dont you dare ever summoning anything but the waterelemental. Also cast "hurl" thru a firefield for massive burst. 

Thats all there is kinda. 

 

17 hours ago, Frequency.6407 said:

If you're up for meme builds

Sir... This is by no means a meme build. 

Spoiler

You can go toe to toe with actual "Pro players" on metabuilds.

And thats prebuff.....

No clue what anet is doing.

 

Edited by Sahne.6950
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15 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Well... your right.... but its not about Cata this time.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAs2lZwaYasLGJOyPntdA-z5YXGJUA9mAGPAA

Try this when the patch hits and tell me if you think its even remotely balanced.

I played almost this exact build for a while, the only problems with this build is when you get pressured, which is a lot as people think you are support, the dps plummets when going into other elements. A lot of the damage also gets unintentially mitigated when players swap weapons, or use heals, as it only really applies 2 condi types for the most part. If left alone though, it does a rediculous amount of damage for using a few signets, and essentially auto attacking. Do you think the patch will deal with this? currently I find FA cata does more reliable dmg when pressured.

 

Edited by Flowki.7194
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Most of that is a matter of practice! ^_^ 

You have alot of cover condis at your disposal to "hide" the bleed and burn. Using Covercondis is a fundamental part of playing a Condibuild. If you cleanse, you will always cleanse the condition that was applied LAST. When you Air overload on someone for example, it will constantly apply vulnerability. If you now cleanse, it will always cleanse the vulnerability and the burnstacks will remain untouched.

Here is a example: You start your burst by casting Signet of Fire -> Signet of Earth -> and then you begin to overload earth on him.  Overload Earth will constantly apply cripple and Bleed.

The cleanse order will now be:  Cripple->bleed->immob->blind->burn.     With cripple and bleed constantly reapplying. And to top it all off, you go air after your done overloading and also apply Vulnerability+blind+weakness with your air 2 and 3.  At this point your burn is burried soooo deep under the other condis, that most builds cant cleanse it.

In order to cleanse the burn, your enemy has to have a button that cleanses 4-5 conditions at once, or burn multiple cleanses right after another, leaving him with little cleanses left just after your first burst attempt. And at that point hes fighting a uphill battle, because you wasted very little and he had to blow all his cleanses.

If you know how... this build has alot more conditions than just bleed and burn. The way how you can constantly reapply those covercondis, makes it a nightmare to deal with the actual damaging conditions.

 

FACata will still be better for roaming, because of its mobility, but this build right here will be a menace to encounter on the sidenodes.

Edited by Sahne.6950
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16 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Most of that is a matter of practice! ^_^ 

You have alot of cover condis at your disposal to "hide" the bleed and burn. Using Covercondis is a fundamental part of playing a Condibuild. If you cleanse, you will always cleanse the condition that was applied LAST. When you Air overload on someone for example, it will constantly apply vulnerability. If you now cleanse, it will always cleanse the vulnerability and the burnstacks will remain untouched.

Here is a example: You start your burst by casting Signet of Fire -> Signet of Earth -> and then you begin to overload earth on him.  Overload Earth will constantly apply cripple and Bleed.

The cleanse order will now be:  Cripple->bleed->immob->blind->burn.     With cripple and bleed constantly reapplying. And to top it all off, you go air after your done overloading and also apply Vulnerability+blind+weakness with your air 2 and 3.  At this point your burn is burried soooo deep under the other condis, that most builds cant cleanse it.

In order to cleanse the burn, your enemy has to have a button that cleanses 4-5 conditions at once, or burn multiple cleanses right after another, leaving him with little cleanses left just after your first burst attempt. And at that point hes fighting a uphill battle, because you wasted very little and he had to blow all his cleanses.

If you know how... this build has alot more conditions than just bleed and burn. The way how you can constantly reapply those covercondis, makes it a nightmare to deal with the actual damaging conditions.

 

FACata will still be better for roaming, because of its mobility, but this build right here will be a menace to encounter on the sidenodes.

 

In my experiance, rooting good players was quickly followed by a clense, while some specs also have root removal on mobility mechanics, and also avoid overload root with mobility/dodge. Again, ''unconcious'' weapon swaps, and healing just becuase they seen their health was getting low (avg heal special removes around 2/3 condi?) was enough to screw this spec over in 1v1. Im not doubting what you are saying, I just didn't find the signets to be reliable enough for the amount of sustain reduction. But I am also not great in 1v1, so Ill concede it works in the hands of a good duelist, maybe I lacked correct dodging etc.

 

In group fights it makes no sense to ever leave fire unless you have to. The amount of damage it does to supports who stand near team mates overwelms them very well, up until the point you start getting pressured at least. I didn't mind so much the damage being clensed in group fights, becuase it will ramp up again, on multiple people, but the issue again can come down to the time it can take (line of sight and all that stuff). If you go into other stances to support team, your dps drops like a rock, if you stay in fire, team mates could start dying if you give them 0 support. I got tired of that all or nothing kind of feel to it.

 

I will try it after patch though, maybe it will be better for me at least.

 

 

Edited by Flowki.7194
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