Will Relics invalidate legendary runes? [Merged]

[Bjwhite.9241]

6 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Again Legendary runes have 1 function and 1 function only to swap between superior runes that function is staying the game, how much simpler can it get? 
 

runes are keeping 6/6 bonuses

the relic bonuses aren’t the same as rune bonuses if they were Relic of the Thief would have the same Bonus as Rune of the Thief but they don’t…  

 

Runes aren’t just their 6th Bonus slot that is one small part of the whole thing, just like Guardian isn’t just one trait out of its whole class or 1 skill out of its whole class…

 

so again the Legendary Runes aren’t losing their singular functionality

"For example, the Relic of the Trooper’s effect is identical to the previous sixth-tier Trooper rune effect" Trooper is identical aka the same bonus.

The core functionality is the same, selecting 6 stats, the ability to select the feature of the special bonus which is a current function of runes is being removed. So a function of runes is being moved to relics.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

Again, anet literally makes a clear distinction between "simple stat bonuses" and "special bonuses", the special bonuses are taken away and offloaded into new items. That's the loss of functionality and it was explained to you over and over again. Also as already said, people crafted legendary runes to round up their full legendary builds. Now it won't be possible because meaningful part of legendary runes is being cut off and to get the same full build, the players will need to acquire additional items. And, again, it's not because the functionality remained the same.

I wonder why you still refuse to address what anet themselves said just to repeat your "count to 6" shtick. I think at this point you know what you're doing and we're done here.

Again Runes consist of 6 bonuses doesn’t matter what they are called a Superior Rune is the whole sum of 6 bonuses not just a singular bonus. 
 

again they are rebalancing the 6th bonus to be online with all tune bonuses since there is still a 6th bonus on runes you’re not losing the only function of Legendary runes again that only function of legendary runes is swapping freely between Superior runes and guess what Superior Runes aren’t being removed… 

you cant say Legendary Runes are losing their sole function when the sole function still exists 

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

you cant say Legendary Runes are losing their sole function when the sole function still exists 

Who knows, maybe I can't, but anet can and clearly did.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

3 minutes ago, Bjwhite.9241 said:

"For example, the Relic of the Trooper’s effect is identical to the previous sixth-tier Trooper rune effect" Trooper is identical aka the same bonus.

The core functionality is the same, selecting 6 stats, the ability to select the feature of the special bonus which is a current function of runes is being removed. So a function of runes is being moved to relics.

Trooper Rune 6th bonus is +125 Toughness; remove a condition from each affected ally after using a shout skill.

Trooper Relic isn’t the same since it’s lacking the +125 Toughness,… therefore they are different Bonuses.

again the argument the complainers have is Legendary Runes are losing their sole function since they are conflating Superior Runes to just being the 6th Bonus which they aren’t 

Edited July 12, 2023 by BlaqueFyre.5678

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Who knows, maybe I can't, but anet can and clearly did.

They never said Legendary Runes are losing their sole function, please point where they say that.

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

They never said Legendary Runes are losing their sole function, please point where they say that.

They don't need to say "x loses effect", it's enough that they said "we're moving x effect to that new item". If the effect is being "moved", it clearly needs to be moved "from" somewhere. And it's clear what that "somewhere". Not sure what straw you're trying to grasp for now.

Anyways, I said I'm done, so I'll try not getting pulled into this weird world, where apparently "moving something from x to y" means "creating it at y with no loss from x" or something. 🤦‍♂️

 

"someone stole my car 😞 "  
-no worries mate, the important thing is that you didn't lose your car. In the end you didn't use "lose" word so it means that person only gained the car without you losing it so it's all good!

Edited July 12, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Tehy don't need to say "x loses effect", it's enough that they said "we're moving x effect to that new item". If the effect is being "moved", it clearly needs to be moved "from" somewhere. And it's clear what that "somewhere". Not sure what straw you're trying to grasp for now.

Anyways, I said I'm done, so I'll try not getting pulled into this weird world, where apparently "moving something from x to y" means "creating it at y with no loss from x" or something. 🤦‍♂️

But again that effect isn’t the Function of Legendary runes, the only Function Legendary runes have is swapping between available superior runes at anytime free of charge…

so are superior Runes going to exist in the game after the change? The answers yes isn’t it? And the legendary runes will be able to select any of those Superior runes free of charge? Again the answers yes isn’t it? 

so the only function Legendary Runes have doesn’t change at all your not losing that function and that function isn’t being moved to Relics. 

Edited July 12, 2023 by BlaqueFyre.5678

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, idpersona.3810 said:

This is amazing. Thank you for the laugh.

I'd say it is probably in the top 10 of my contributions to the forums. Especially since the repeat portion continued not long afterwards.

[Echo.3725]

14 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

But again that effect isn’t the Function of Legendary runes, the only Function Legendary runes have is swapping between available superior runes at anytime free of charge…

so are superior Runes going to exist in the game after the change? The answers yes isn’t it? And the legendary runes will be able to select any of those Superior runes free of charge? Again the answers yes isn’t it? 

so the only function Legendary Runes have doesn’t change at all your not losing that function and that function isn’t being moved to Relics. 

Here - let me give you some chips and salsa,

Tomorrow you have to run errands for me to get the salsa again but you can still have the chips. 

Runes are currently chips AND salsa. 

In SotO Relics are the salsa. 

I don't really care what is in said salsa or what is on said chip the problem we are describing to you is that it is not an addition to the game but a subtraction of an existing feature that you already have and just simply moving it to this other slot. 

Sure we can sell chips and salsa independently now but the problem with someone owning a lifetime supply of chips and salsa or even someone who has chips and salsa today that now has to go out and find new salsa tomorrow, in effect, anet is stealing your salsa and asking you to run errands to regain said salsa with a different container.  This is a loss. Can it be regained? sure? but should we have to if we already got the life time supply? Or have the chips and salsa already on a character? Why? Why would this be expected? 
 

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

Just now, Echo.3725 said:

Here - let me give you some chips and salsa,

Tomorrow you have to run errands for me to get the salsa again but you can still have the chips. 

Runes are currently chips AND salsa. 

In SotO Relics are the salsa. 

I don't really care what is in said salsa or what is on said chip the problem we are describing to you is that it is not an addition to the game but a subtraction of an existing feature that you already have and just simply moving it to this other slot. 

Sure we can sell chips and salsa independently now but the problem with someone owning a lifetime supply of chips and salsa or even someone who has chips and salsa today that now has to go out and find new salsa tomorrow, in effect, anet is stealing your salsa and asking you to run errands to regain said salsa with a different container.  This is a loss. Can it be regained? sure? but should we have to if we already got the life time supply? Or have the chips and salsa already on a character? Why? Why would this be expected? 
 

Again your analogy is so bad, Superior Runes aren’t two separate things like your chips and salsa analogy, it’s not Superior Rune and A Bonus it’s just Superior Rune.  say you have a set of Superior Runes today and in the future after Soto you still have a set of Superior Runes, they didn’t take anything away, since they didn’t take Superior Runes away and they will still have 6 bonuses not 5.  So again please try to use a good analogy if that’s what you’re going to base your argument on.

[Echo.3725]

1 minute ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Again your analogy is so bad, Superior Runes aren’t two separate things like your chips and salsa analogy, it’s not Superior Rune and A Bonus it’s just Superior Rune.  say you have a set of Superior Runes today and in the future after Soto you still have a set of Superior Runes, they didn’t take anything away, since they didn’t take Superior Runes away and they will still have 6 bonuses not 5.  So again please try to use a good analogy if that’s what you’re going to base your argument on.

Must be a decent one if you can't find a way to refute it without attacking the analogy. 

Here answer these questions directly:
Do you currently get a bonus for matching 6 runes today?
Do you currently get a special effect for some of those set bonuses?
Will you be able to some of these replicate these bonuses with the runes after August 22nd? 
Will you be able to replicate some of these bonuses with runes + relics after August 22nd?
 

[Kulvar.1239]

1 minute ago, Echo.3725 said:

Must be a decent one if you can't find a way to refute it without attacking the analogy. 

Here answer these questions directly:
Do you currently get a bonus for matching 6 runes today?
Do you currently get a special effect for some of those set bonuses?
Will you be able to some of these replicate these bonuses with the runes after August 22nd? 
Will you be able to replicate some of these bonuses with runes + relics after August 22nd?
 

So ANet should never nerf anything because you wouldn't get the same effects ?

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

4 minutes ago, Echo.3725 said:

Must be a decent one if you can't find a way to refute it without attacking the analogy. 

Here answer these questions directly:
Do you currently get a bonus for matching 6 runes today?
Do you currently get a special effect for some of those set bonuses?
Will you be able to some of these replicate these bonuses with the runes after August 22nd? 
Will you be able to replicate some of these bonuses with runes + relics after August 22nd?
 

I just did, your lack of understanding doesn’t mean your analogy is good. You tried to conflate an analogy of two separate items and one item being taken away with one thing known as Superior Runes that isn’t being taken away. Now you have Superior Runes after the xpac you still have Superior Runes. See how that works see how it’s not two separate things and one thing being taken away? Pretty simple 

and you won’t be able to replicate the builds because Relic Bonuses will be different than current Bonuses

Edited July 12, 2023 by BlaqueFyre.5678

[Linken.6345]

42 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

But again that effect isn’t the Function of Legendary runes, the only Function Legendary runes have is swapping between available superior runes at anytime free of charge…

so are superior Runes going to exist in the game after the change? The answers yes isn’t it? And the legendary runes will be able to select any of those Superior runes free of charge? Again the answers yes isn’t it? 

so the only function Legendary Runes have doesn’t change at all your not losing that function and that function isn’t being moved to Relics. 

So after this change what is the benefit to a 6 legendary rune player to switch bettwen  6 rune of the ogre and 6 rune of the scholar?

Clearly no functionality was lost so they still get something different after the change right?

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

3 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

So after this change what is the benefit to a 6 legendary rune player to switch bettwen  6 rune of the ogre and 6 rune of the scholar?

Clearly no functionality was lost so they still get something different after the change right?

You still get to switch between all available Runes just because Runes change doesn’t mean you lost the functionality of changing runes. This is no different than any other balance change. And remember you agreed to the ToS that says they can make any changes to the game they want with no compensation 

Edited July 12, 2023 by BlaqueFyre.5678

[Linken.6345]

Just now, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

You still get to switch between all available Runes just because Runes change doesn’t mean you lost the functionality of changing runes. 

Yes but there is no benefit to do it so clearly something was lost in the exchange bettwen runes and relics.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

Just now, Linken.6345 said:

Yes but there is no benefit to do it so clearly something was lost in the exchange bettwen runes and relics.

There is a ton of benefit to the balance change of Runes plus not all changes are favorable changes to each individual player. So please keep to discussion at hand

[Echo.3725]

1 minute ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

So ANet should never nerf anything because you wouldn't get the same effects ?

If it was outright removal or replacement on the same mechanism - no issue. 

The issue is quite literally that it is a function we have is being taken and split into another piece of equipment with very little planning or design that seems to be around the impact of this change. We will know more on the 18th. 

Nerf is fine - balance, again fine. This is neither of those things other than what is being claimed.

They are saying you have to do work to get back something they are taking away.
Your "nerf" is saying your helmet, now has 50% stats - you must find the lining and equip it to get its stats back again. The rest of your gear stays the same.
 

It is an artificial grind. If it was net new bonuses - sure then this is a great change. The issue is that it is not an addition but it negates current functionality and re-adds it to call it "new" while requiring those that had access to those functions to have to reacquire them with significant effort with little to no benefit. The quantity and scope of this change is really the issue.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

1 minute ago, Echo.3725 said:

If it was outright removal or replacement on the same mechanism - no issue. 

The issue is quite literally that it is a function we have is being taken and split into another piece of equipment with very little planning or design that seems to be around the impact of this change. We will know more on the 18th. 

Nerf is fine - balance, again fine. This is neither of those things other than what is being claimed.

They are saying you have to do work to get back something they are taking away.
Your "nerf" is saying your helmet, now has 50% stats - you must find the lining and equip it to get its stats back again. The rest of your gear stays the same.
 

It is an artificial grind. If it was net new bonuses - sure then this is a great change. The issue is that it is not an addition but it negates current functionality and re-adds it to call it "new" while requiring those that had access to those functions to have to reacquire them with significant effort with little to no benefit. The quantity and scope of this change is really the issue.

Legendary Runes aren’t losing any function again the only function of Legendary Runes is swapping freely between all available Superior Runes nothing more nothing less. Them changing what bonuses Runes give doesn’t change that functionality. 

[Kulvar.1239]

3 minutes ago, Echo.3725 said:

If it was outright removal or replacement on the same mechanism - no issue. 

The issue is quite literally that it is a function we have is being taken and split into another piece of equipment with very little planning or design that seems to be around the impact of this change. We will know more on the 18th. 

Nerf is fine - balance, again fine. This is neither of those things other than what is being claimed.

Legendary Rune will still let you choose which rune effect you want to use. They don't change how legendary rune work.

Most runes will get their effects replaced with raw attribute bonus. Few runes will be nerfed (Only 22 out of 100 runes have a +125 attribute on the 6th effect) to put them in line with others. And a new slot for special effects is added.

It is balanced.

[Echo.3725]

 

Just now, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Legendary Runes aren’t losing any function again the only function of Legendary Runes is swapping freely between all available Superior Runes nothing more nothing less. Them changing what bonuses Runes give doesn’t change that functionality. 

Here answer these questions directly:
Do you currently get a bonus for matching 6 runes today?
Do you currently get a special effect for some of those set bonuses?
Will you be able to some of these replicate these bonuses with the runes after August 22nd? 
Will you be able to replicate some of these bonuses with runes + relics after August 22nd?

Here answer these questions directly if you are so confident in your position. Rune of the trooper disproves your entire argument as it stands in their announcement. I'm hoping for this to change in the 18th announcement but as it stands you are fighting against a press release from ANET itself that you seem to ignore bits and pieces to favor your "talking points". 

Runes are losing their set bonus, gaining a balance change to include a 6th stat line if it didn't have it already
Relics are being created to account for set bonuses and are replacing that feature from runes. 

This does have some benefit in it adds flexibility for build crafting as a player - but this benefit doesn't excuse the amount of effort and lack of addition to flexibility that this change is now restricting for players who had access to swap runes around freely. 

Sure legendary runes still provide the ability to not have to lug around different stat sets but they lost the draw for being able to swap the functionality and modifiers of builds that came with the set bonuses. It also allows all characters on an account to use those same benefits. 

Relics remove that flexibility, they also remove the ability to use those modifiers as needed across all characters for those who have legendary runes or stacks of runes they lug around in shared slots, it also requires you to grind for the set bonuses you previously had access to through runes (not just legendary). Set bonuses themselves are a function that you clearly don't seem to want to admit. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

🤡: You still have cookies you haven't lost anything.

CCCA: They took our chips. Give us back our chips.

🤡: 🤡

CCCA: 😡

repeat.

We'll be stuck on the repeat cycle here until a merciful forum moderator stops laughing at this thread and locks it.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

1 minute ago, Echo.3725 said:

 

Here answer these questions directly:
Do you currently get a bonus for matching 6 runes today?
Do you currently get a special effect for some of those set bonuses?
Will you be able to some of these replicate these bonuses with the runes after August 22nd? 
Will you be able to replicate some of these bonuses with runes + relics after August 22nd?

Here answer these questions directly if you are so confident in your position. Rune of the trooper disproves your entire argument as it stands in their announcement. I'm hoping for this to change in the 18th announcement but as it stands you are fighting against a press release from ANET itself that you seem to ignore bits and pieces to favor your "talking points". 

Runes are losing their set bonus, gaining a balance change to include a 6th stat line if it didn't have it already
Relics are being created to account for set bonuses and are replacing that feature from runes. 

This does have some benefit in it adds flexibility for build crafting as a player - but this benefit doesn't excuse the amount of effort and lack of addition to flexibility that this change is now restricting for players who had access to swap runes around freely. 

Sure legendary runes still provide the ability to not have to lug around different stat sets but they lost the draw for being able to swap the functionality and modifiers of builds that came with the set bonuses. It also allows all characters on an account to use those same benefits. 

Relics remove that flexibility, they also remove the ability to use those modifiers as needed across all characters for those who have legendary runes or stacks of runes they lug around in shared slots, it also requires you to grind for the set bonuses you previously had access to through runes (not just legendary). Set bonuses themselves are a function that you clearly don't seem to want to admit. 

Again your get 6 bonuses currently, you will get 6 bonuses after change.

for relics plus runes maybe to can replicate some builds but not guaranteed since the Relic bonuses are different from the Rune bonuses your Trooper example proves my point Trooper Rune 6 bonus gives 125 Toughness and the condicleanse that’s all one singular bonus Trooper Relic doesn’t give that Toughness so the Bonus is different it may be similar but it won’t be the same build. 
 

again you’re not losing any function of Legendary Runes the function stays the exact same  no matter how much you hate that it is the truth.

again Legendary Runes only function is being able to swap between what Superior Runes are available at any given time that function doesn’t care about the bonuses those runes are because those bonuses aren’t the Function of Legendary Runes.

[Echo.3725]

4 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Again your get 6 bonuses currently, you will get 6 bonuses after change.

for relics plus runes maybe to can replicate some builds but not guaranteed since the Relic bonuses are different from the Rune bonuses your Trooper example proves my point Trooper Rune 6 bonus gives 125 Toughness and the condicleanse that’s all one singular bonus Trooper Relic doesn’t give that Toughness so the Bonus is different it may be similar but it won’t be the same build. 
 

again you’re not losing any function of Legendary Runes the function stays the exact same  no matter how much you hate that it is the truth.

again Legendary Runes only function is being able to swap between what Superior Runes are available at any given time that function doesn’t care about the bonuses those runes are because those bonuses aren’t the Function of Legendary Runes.

Here answer these questions directly:
Do you currently get a bonus for matching 6 runes today?
Do you currently get a special effect for some of those set bonuses?
Will you be able to replicate some of these bonuses with the runes after August 22nd? 
Will you be able to replicate some of these bonuses with runes + relics after August 22nd?

Here answer these questions directly if you are so confident in your position.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Echo.3725

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

10 minutes ago, Echo.3725 said:

Here answer these questions directly:
Do you currently get a bonus for matching 6 runes today?
Do you currently get a special effect for some of those set bonuses?
Will you be able to some of these replicate these bonuses with the runes after August 22nd? 
Will you be able to replicate some of these bonuses with runes + relics after August 22nd?

Here answer these questions directly if you are so confident in your position.

You gets. Bonus for matching sets  you also get a bonus after the change already answered that or can’t you read 

again the fact there’s a special bonus or not doesn’t change the fact you’re not losing functionality on legendary runes

and you won’t be able to replicate the builds after the change since as I already proved the Bonuses are different 

please go re read the previous answers I already answered all of your questions. 
 

again Legendary Runes only have one Function and that’s freely swapping between Superior Rune.

now answer these questions

are the item type known as  Superior Runes Being removed? 
 

will the Superior Runes after the patch still provide 6 total bonuses? 
 

you seem so confident so answer

Edited July 12, 2023 by BlaqueFyre.5678