It's now harder to upkeep Quickness as catalyst.

[Vee.6052]

Playing on my celestial catalyst where I used to have 0 issue upkeeping quickness while cycling through my elements...now I struggle. The intended change here has ironically swung in the opposite direction and made me feel more pressure to spam and blast my way to the next element. I feel like I have no breathing room at all anymore. If they keep this change, they need to increase the quickness duration at base, because right now it feels horrible.

[Markus.6415]

Yeah it's super awful... that unnesserary energy mechanic on top of the cooldowns of the spheres and the 2 seconds base quickness duration is so, so bad.

I hope the remove that energy nonsense once and for all.

[soulknight.9620]

Just tried it via cele OW build and qcata build. No problems whatsoever. Its far more easier to upkeep quickness both with hammer and d/d builds. qCata was providing 15 sec of quick before the patch, now its 20 secs of quick per full rota. 

[Vee.6052]

4 hours ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Just tried it via cele OW build and qcata build. No problems whatsoever. Its far more easier to upkeep quickness both with hammer and d/d builds. qCata was providing 15 sec of quick before the patch, now its 20 secs of quick per full rota. 

Can you share your build/rotation for your cele build? I just tried to play like I normally do and I could not generate enough energy to spam out my spheres at all.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

it depends on how many spheres your build pumps out per air cycle - its a buff if you pump out more than 2 spheres per cycle, but ends up being a nerf if only managing 2 (something + air pre-patch) or less spheres (i.e. just air) per cycle

it ends up being a nice QoL change for some specific builds, but hurts everything else. the main source of frustration was always energy management. but now theres no strict need to ever visit air so theres that new option i guess

[the krytan assassin.9235]

Its quite abit easier for the normal dps rotation now. I can now almost upkeep quickness with fire air traits full zerk whereas it used to be ~60% uptime.  When using sc/d 3 sphere rotation on full zerk, fresh air/arcane i was able to get ~130% uptime (and yes sc/d is actually a very powerful build).

Upkeep in Fractals should be fine aswell due to the standard extra boon dura. I can imagine it will give some problems in open world though due to lack of energy regen while ooc and lack of alac. No idea about the current status in WvW/pvp, still need to try it out. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by the krytan assassin.9235

[soulknight.9620]

4 hours ago, Vee.6052 said:

Can you share your build/rotation for your cele build? I just tried to play like I normally do and I could not generate enough energy to spam out my spheres at all.

I use full tanky cele build. Water 2-3-3/Arcane 3-3-3/Cata 2-3-3. For utilities Ether renewal, fire signet, earth armor, arcane shield, elite - elementals. Its an old build, i havent experimented with new stuff (like full signet build) yet. Stats - full cele, baelfire runes, Strength + concentration sigils.  All of that nets you with 6.5 secs of quick per jade sphere. You basically go 2/2 jade spheres. (for example throw air/fire spheres in a quick succession and wait to regent 20-30 energy, then throw water/earth). 

Edited June 28, 2023 by soulknight.9620

[rotten.9753]

1 hour ago, soulknight.9620 said:

I use full tanky cele build. Water 2-3-3/Arcane 3-3-3/Cata 2-3-3. For utilities Ether renewal, fire signet, earth armor, arcane shield, elite - elementals. Its an old build, i havent experimented with new stuff (like full signet build) yet. Stats - full cele, baelfire runes, Strength + concentration sigils.  All of that nets you with 6.5 secs of quick per jade sphere. You basically go 2/2 jade spheres. (for example throw air/fire spheres in a quick succession and wait to regent 20-30 energy, then throw water/earth). 

With full celestial and arcane trait line you should maintain quickness easily, on a golem it's possible with 10% bd and no arcane trait line.

[soulknight.9620]

7 minutes ago, rotten.9753 said:

With full celestial and arcane trait line you should maintain quickness easily, on a golem it's possible with 10% bd and no arcane trait line.

Are you sure you are quoting the right person? A guy asked me to share my build. I do not have any problems with quick uptime in any build atm. 

[rotten.9753]

7 minutes ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Are you sure you are quoting the right person? A guy asked me to share my build. I do not have any problems with quick uptime in any build atm. 

Ups, you're right.

[Markus.6415]

I don't know... i have 45% boon duration on my Fire/Air/Catalyst and the quickness seems always on the edge because of that awful 5s downtime until energy starts generating again. Tried playing it like my dps rotation before with fire, air and water squere, earth without squere and the next squere in fire again.

[Markus.6415]

Feels like i need even more concentration, while Chrono still needs 0 while easily capping alac or quick now.

Edit: Found out i just have to play it different now, 2 squeres in a row, then charge up energy and then again 2 squeres in a row and the quick output will be very good actually.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Markus.6415

[rotten.9753]

12 minutes ago, Markus.6415 said:

I don't know... i have 45% boon duration on my Fire/Air/Catalyst and the quickness seems always on the edge because of that awful 5s downtime until energy starts generating again. Tried playing it like my dps rotation before with fire, air and water squere, earth without squere and the next squere in fire again.

fire/air/water spheres are only used during the opener, later on you should use earth/fire and then air/water

11 minutes ago, Markus.6415 said:

Feels like i need even more concentration, while Chrono still needs 0 while easily capping alac or quick now.

Chrono deals less damage and doesn't give so many boons like Catalyst but it's much easier to play.

[Markus.6415]

38 minutes ago, rotten.9753 said:

fire/air/water spheres are only used during the opener, later on you should use earth/fire and then air/water

Oh wow, thanks a lot! That's very different now

[soulknight.9620]

Yeah, i think i found the issue here. For all of the guys that mastered the meta rotation and manage to keep 2/2 spheres out (thats 4 spheres per loop) that was a major buff. Thats how i saw it myself.
For people that played cata casually and that can get 1-3 spheres out during a loop its a nerf. Cause prior to the patch you could just put a single air sphere out per loop and get 100% uptime on quick. As for now you have to get 3 spheres out per loop to get the same result. Which kinda puts pressure on energy regen and the player.

To solve this problem anet needs to either: 1) get rid of energy system on spheres (its already limited by cd), or 2) remove or lower the time it takes to start regening energy after sphere use (5 secs is kinda too much now, 0-3 would make it better), or 3) put a sec or two of bonus quick uptime (which is the worse solution here cause the problem would be softened a bit, but still persist).  

[Razor.6392]

Oh no! anyways...

[Junkpile.7439]

Why keep it up. Just use quickness when you need it.

[Joswi.2635]

9 hours ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Yeah, i think i found the issue here. For all of the guys that mastered the meta rotation and manage to keep 2/2 spheres out (thats 4 spheres per loop) that was a major buff. Thats how i saw it myself.
For people that played cata casually and that can get 1-3 spheres out during a loop its a nerf. Cause prior to the patch you could just put a single air sphere out per loop and get 100% uptime on quick. As for now you have to get 3 spheres out per loop to get the same result. Which kinda puts pressure on energy regen and the player.

To solve this problem anet needs to either: 1) get rid of energy system on spheres (its already limited by cd), or 2) remove or lower the time it takes to start regening energy after sphere use (5 secs is kinda too much now, 0-3 would make it better), or 3) put a sec or two of bonus quick uptime (which is the worse solution here cause the problem would be softened a bit, but still persist).  

Yes, it feels more energy intensive now to upkeep it. Removing the energy all together would be the best but at the very least they should get rid of no energy generation while a sphere is out. That would make it feel so much better. 

[Sorasnobody.9350]

If you're doing a two sphere deployment rotation, yes it is worse quickness, but then I need to ask why you are doing a two sphere rotation. I play cele Catalyst solo religiously and even on staff I can do a three sphere deployment, and staff is really clunky for energy building. Three spheres are always doable. With like standard cele boon duration, you get about 45% boon duration, give or take, along with some elemental empowerment buffing that. Before the patch I got 14.5s of quickness from my air sphere alone, which was also un-fun as I was delaying going there to complete my rotation for energy. Now, you get about 17.25s, let's say 17s of quickness from three spheres, of which you can get from ANY sphere now. If you're running hammer as well, it is even better as you can use Energized Elements (or Vicious if you really are going for it) and get a four sphere deployment so you go from 14.5s to over 20s of quickness on a celestial Catalyst build which is really, really nice.

 

Although, as a few have said, would really not be opposed to energy being stripped off Catalyst or lowering deployment cost of spheres to 'reduce the drawbacks of playing an elite specialization' philosophy that anet is following 🤗

Edited June 29, 2023 by Sorasnobody.9350

[The Boz.2038]

Remember, gang! Energy is totes a good mechanic for this spec!

[soulknight.9620]

39 minutes ago, Sorasnobody.9350 said:

If you're doing a two sphere deployment rotation, yes it is worse quickness, but then I need to ask why you are doing a two sphere rotation. 

Although i dont have this problem myself. I usually do 4 sphere rota. But the way i see it, it has something to do with while doing OW you rarely see "fat" enemies that dont go down in a few skills and that limits ur energy generation. And another thing is that the rotation to get 3-4 spheres is counter intuitive for a lot of people. 

[Vee.6052]

8 hours ago, Sorasnobody.9350 said:

If you're doing a two sphere deployment rotation, yes it is worse quickness, but then I need to ask why you are doing a two sphere rotation. I play cele Catalyst solo religiously and even on staff I can do a three sphere deployment, and staff is really clunky for energy building. Three spheres are always doable. With like standard cele boon duration, you get about 45% boon duration, give or take, along with some elemental empowerment buffing that. Before the patch I got 14.5s of quickness from my air sphere alone, which was also un-fun as I was delaying going there to complete my rotation for energy. Now, you get about 17.25s, let's say 17s of quickness from three spheres, of which you can get from ANY sphere now. If you're running hammer as well, it is even better as you can use Energized Elements (or Vicious if you really are going for it) and get a four sphere deployment so you go from 14.5s to over 20s of quickness on a celestial Catalyst build which is really, really nice.

 

Although, as a few have said, would really not be opposed to energy being stripped off Catalyst or lowering deployment cost of spheres to 'reduce the drawbacks of playing an elite specialization' philosophy that anet is following 🤗

I am using all four spheres in my build. I still can't generate enough energy to slap down the spheres in time.

[Sorasnobody.9350]

4 hours ago, Vee.6052 said:

I am using all four spheres in my build. I still can't generate enough energy to slap down the spheres in time.

you must be using your high hit abilities (not damage, but hits per ability) while you have a sphere deployed then*. The general idea is to spam three spheres back-to-back then have a massive period, I usually have it in fire, to rebuild all your energy and do it again

* as you energy generation stops when a sphere is active. That is something I wasn't aware of when first playing cata, not sure if it was something you are aware of or not.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Sorasnobody.9350
clarity

[Juniper.8197]

On 6/28/2023 at 1:50 AM, Markus.6415 said:

Feels like i need even more concentration, while Chrono still needs 0 while easily capping alac or quick now.

Edit: Found out i just have to play it different now, 2 squeres in a row, then charge up energy and then again 2 squeres in a row and the quick output will be very good actually.

Can somebody explain what deploying spheres in pairs mean in practical terms? still can't get my quickness uptime to be more than 50% with celestial gear

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

2 hours ago, Juniper.8197 said:

Can somebody explain what deploying spheres in pairs mean in practical terms? still can't get my quickness uptime to be more than 50% with celestial gear

It means pressing the Sphere key twice back-to-back (by switching attunement midway), build up your energy, then repeat the Sphere press with the other 2 attunements.

You do so because you don't gain energy while a Sphere is active, so you space them out to give yourself time to build up energy.