Shouldn't the whole Balthazar thing come with sweeping changes to Human PCs?

[Oglaf.1074]

Elementalists praising him still when attuning to fire, being able to set his own Hounds against him etc.

It is as if Norns had access to Dragon-themed abilities and voice lines that praised it, no? Seems very wonky.

[Sidunox.2401]

This. I think it's really confusing, hearing Balthazar-praising phrases from random human npcs around Tyria. Is the fact that he's gone rogue not known throughout the world or is it more secretive than I thought? But then again, in the human home instance, there's also a female npc talking about how good Caudacus is. So I'm not quite sure what I should think.

[Rognik.2579]

As far as maps go, they are all frozen in time, so unless it's an instance (like the first part of S3E6), you won't find any ambient dialogue that matches with the current storyline.As for human elementalists, they might still have mixed feelings? Remember that Kasmeer is still struggling between her faith and the fact that Balthazar is acting aggressive to Tyrians. Maybe the ones who prefer fire attunement are like the Priest of Balthazar or the Zaishan, eagerly hoping to join Balthazar in whatever he's planning on doing. Maybe they compartmentalize the whole thing, that Balthazar is more of a concept than a tangible being you could meet. Or maybe it'd be too much trouble to just turn off the lines that were recorded 5+ years ago, when this plotline wasn't solidly decided.

[Ayakaru.6583]

In times of season 1 they mightve changed npc dialogue in cities, but at the moment, all npcs are frozen in time, and i think the entire world is a bit in the between LS2 and HoT state

[Oglaf.1074]

I'm only talking about the PC (i.e Player Character) here. The human world at large would of course go on as usual with their worship of the Six, but your character should definitely be affected by the revelation they personally witnessed about Balthazar.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:In times of season 1 they mightve changed npc dialogue in cities, but at the moment, all npcs are frozen in time, and i think the entire world is a bit in the between LS2 and HoT state

Even during Season 1 they never bothered changing NPC dialogues outside of the effected areas.

[Erasculio.2914]

@Oglaf.1074 said:Elementalists praising him still when attuning to fire, being able to set his own Hounds against him etc.

I agree completely.

It doesn't bother me that we don't see NPCs complaining about it - they are frozen in time.

I would have expected, though, a much bigger reaction from the human playable characters. During character creation we could choose that they would have been blessed by Balthazar, and yet, when facing the god himself, we get... Nothing? The Six Gods are said to have a important role in human culture, even despite their recent silence. To not see some kind of special reaction from the human PCs is, well, very disappointing.

[Jinroh.4251]

@Erasculio.2914 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:Elementalists praising him still when attuning to fire, being able to set his own Hounds against him etc.

I agree completely.

It doesn't bother me that we don't see NPCs complaining about it - they are frozen in time.

I would have expected, though, a much bigger reaction from the human playable characters. During character creation we could choose that they would have been blessed by Balthazar, and yet, when facing the god himself, we get... Nothing? The Six Gods are said to have a important role in human culture, even despite their recent silence. To not see some kind of special reaction from the human PCs is, well, very disappointing.

Nothing? That's lame. I mean I remember Season 1 if you were Charr and you talked to Roxx after beating Scarlet you mention all the Warband stuff. If you were Sylvari in HOT the NPCs acted differently around you, especially in the story. Did they just plain forget?

[draxynnic.3719]

@Jinroh.4251 said:

@Erasculio.2914 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:Elementalists praising him still when attuning to fire, being able to set his own Hounds against him etc.

I agree completely.

It doesn't bother me that we don't see NPCs complaining about it - they are frozen in time.

I would have expected, though, a much bigger reaction from the human playable characters. During character creation we could choose that they would have been blessed by Balthazar, and yet, when facing the god himself, we get... Nothing? The Six Gods are said to have a important role in human culture, even despite their recent silence. To not see some kind of special reaction from the human PCs is, well, very disappointing.

Nothing? That's lame. I mean I remember Season 1 if you were Charr and you talked to Roxx after beating Scarlet you mention all the Warband stuff. If you were Sylvari in HOT the NPCs acted differently around you, especially in the story. Did they just plain forget?

Apparently. Human and charr PCs should both have had different reactions to the revelation that 'Lazarus' was actually Balthazar, but all races have thus far reacted pretty much the same. It's a bit of a disappointment.

Let's hope that it's handled a bit differently with PoF. HoT had special stuff for sylvari - PoF really should have special stuff for humans. Heck, there could even be Ascension in the cards to ask the other gods WTF? (If you're not human yourself, you can assist Kasmeer...)

[Thalador.4218]

Wholeheartedly agreed. I was actually hoping that they would include the tiny, awesome detail where the cancellation/failure of the Hounds of Balthazar skill would happen when facing him both in his Lazarus illusion and when fighting the actual Temar and Tegon in the heart of the volcano. As human-main player, it was comical when I beseeched him both times to send the echoes of his hounds to aid me against him. Or even if the magic behind the summon is separate from his approval/favor, there could've been an achievement for that: Heretic/Apostate or something.

Really hope that what Drax mentioned above is going to be true. This expansion does deserve special stuff for human characters, as well as more nuanced ways to express our crises of faith.

[Vesuvius.9874]

@Oglaf.1074 said:Elementalists praising him still when attuning to fire, being able to set his own Hounds against him etc.

It is as if Norns had access to Dragon-themed abilities and voice lines that praised it, no? Seems very wonky.

But then what's the alternative? Who else would the human elementalists call upon when invoking fire magic?

[Grimheart.2853]

And what would you like, huh?

Some sort of race-specific dialog?

Maybe even a few extra gameplay moments?

Just who do you think you are to even imagine you deserve that kind of attention, peasant? Some sort of a sylvari?

:>

[draxynnic.3719]

@Thalador.4218 said:Wholeheartedly agreed. I was actually hoping that they would include the tiny, awesome detail where the cancellation/failure of the Hounds of Balthazar skill would happen when facing him both in his Lazarus illusion and when fighting the actual Temar and Tegon in the heart of the volcano. As human-main player, it was comical when I beseeched him both times to send the echoes of his hounds to aid me against him. Or even if the magic behind the summon is separate from his approval/favor, there could've been an achievement for that: Heretic/Apostate or something.

Really hope that what Drax mentioned above is going to be true. This expansion does deserve special stuff for human characters, as well as more nuanced ways to express our crises of faith.

Hahah - second time around, I did that deliberately, purely for the irony factor... :p

I've generally considered the human racial skills to be manifestations of the divinity within, as mentioned at the end of Nightfall, so as much as I enjoyed the irony of setting up a literal dogfight, it does seem plausible that Balthazar can't stop you from delivering that irony.

It would be cute for human fire elementalists to get a new line once everything shakes out, though, and make which line is used dependent on where the player (or the listener?) is in the story.

[Rognik.2579]

I agree that I was greatly disappointed that there wasn't any racial-specific reaction to actually fighting Balthazar or his hounds, especially considering that right in the next instance, there was unique dialogue for each race's reaction towards Livia. Even if that part had only been a single line, that's all we really needed when it came to Episode 5. I'm sure there will be more racially-specific lines scattered throughout all of Path of Fire, not only for humans but for all races, and I'm eager to learn - either actively or passively through the wiki - exactly where those differences arise. But changing the elementalist flavour dialogue about Balthazar when changing to fire attunement? That seems like a lot of work for something that players should see as an acceptable break from "reality".

[Davin.5784]

It is a bit awkward, but it's still understandable. Compare it to irl. There are still people who believe that the earth is flat, that climate change is a hoax, or that the moon landing was faked. NPC's in the game are in denial.

As far as personal character development, this;

@draxynnic.3719 said:I've generally considered the human racial skills to be manifestations of the divinity within, as mentioned at the end of Nightfall, so as much as I enjoyed the irony of setting up a literal dogfight, it does seem plausible that Balthazar can't stop you from delivering that irony.

The Six brought humans to Tyria and it stands to reason based off of the lore that they were all human once themselves as they're not omnipotent, omnipresent, or omniscient.