Panda.1967 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said: Removing weapon exclusivity breaks down that distinction. It is one step closer to just having especs be "options" rather than "requirements" for class identity. It is moving toward consolidating the classes back down to 9 professions instead of 27 especs, which in addition to the alac/quickness changes is removing a LOT of differentiation across both axes. This is just starting the slow slide toward homogenization. This is your mistake… especs were never supposed to become requirements for class identity. From the very start they were intended to be options. ANet devs even stated that repeatedly during both HoT and PoF development. You think we’re going from 27 especs down to just 9 classes… when in reality this move is to correctly establish the 36 distinct options. Core was never meant to be tossed to the wayside to make way for especs. regarding your comment about boon creep… that happened for a few reasons unrelated to what you seem to think… 1) ANet made the bad decision of introducing a boon that gave way too good of a benefit… Alacrity… 2) Quickness was always going to be a highly desirable boon the moment it was known about… the two boons together are the GW2 equivalent to Haste. People will jump through unimaginable hoops to reduce cooldowns and cast times as much as possible in MMOs. 3) a slightly flawed design philosophy… ANet devs have stated numerous times that they prefer to balance around what the playerbase finds enjoyable. In theory this is good… but in practice it often leads to a lot of unbalanced decisions, such as granting Alacrity to almost every espec out there and for some unknown reason nerfing the espec that introduced its access to the boon… I remember Chronomancers were considered required in all raid content and fractals before Alacrity was given to another spec. rather than change how alacrity worked and somehow make it feel less like a requirement and more like a cool bonus when its up, ANet chose to embrace the communities demand for alacrity and added more ways to get it… and while they were at it they figured maybe some other boons should be more widely available… like Stability and Resistance… surely people want those up all the time too… 100% uptime on any boon should never have been possible for a single player to achieve on their own… 100% uptime should have only been possible through group efforts. Edited July 3, 2023 by Panda.1967 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bast.7253 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 On 6/30/2023 at 11:54 PM, Panda.1967 said: Elementalist Hammer didn’t actually get a dual attack for Weaver… it got skill icon art… no tooltip… and no actual dual attack skill… all the did was just make it double cast the original #3 skill using both attuned elements… if you already have an orb for one of your attuned elements it simply casts the skill for the other element instead…if you have both orbs, it’s just the Grand Finale skill as usual. it’s not a dual attack, its a bandaid meant to hide the lack of a dual attack… of course no one was surprised by them doing this, it’s exactly what a few of us theorized they would do back at the start of EoD if they ever were to remove the spec lock. Mesmer and Warrior are the only classes that they put any amount of real effort into for this feature… Mesmer Dagger gained an Ambush skill and Warrior Dagger gained a Primal Burst… that is all… and both of them are super lack luster too… I also noticed the catalyst elite reset skill didn’t apply to sword or warhorn unless it was just a bug for me. You’d think that’s something that would have been glaringly obvious with qa but it seems they don’t have qa. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda.1967 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 43 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said: I also noticed the catalyst elite reset skill didn’t apply to sword or warhorn unless it was just a bug for me. You’d think that’s something that would have been glaringly obvious with qa but it seems they don’t have qa. Things like that are exactly the types of things they wanted you to give them feedback about during the event... things that don't work... things that need adjusting... when devs ask for feedback, this is what they are looking for... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bast.7253 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Panda.1967 said: Things like that are exactly the types of things they wanted you to give them feedback about during the event... things that don't work... things that need adjusting... when devs ask for feedback, this is what they are looking for... I mean, there’s no reason something like that shouldn’t be noticed before it’s released to the consumer and I’m sure it’s been reported by one of the thousands of other players. We’re not talking an edge case bug that’s hard to reproduce. It’s literally just equipping a different weapon and seeing if the skill activation works. Am I crazy for thinking this is something that shouldn’t be seen for the first time in a production level state of an mmo? Mistakes happen and perhaps it looked fine during development but it doesn’t seem like something that would be drastically different between development and deployment. This just strikes me as, we’re understaffed and this was a side project someone worked on but they had a deadline and figured they’d get to it later. From a beta perspective this seems like something they’d want functioning before hand. Less they notice after it’s already live, the expansion is out, and suddenly they notice resetting warhorn air 5 produces some insane damage that takes weeks or months to push out a fix for or balance around. And only for catalyst, so then they have to go back to the drawing board to figure out how to balance it without ruining the ability on the other specs. This is just an example. You also have sustain issues like water 2 on sword, or earth 2 on sword. I think these are less of an issue but it still seems like something they’d want to know before it gets into the hands of the players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda.1967 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 13 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said: I mean, there’s no reason something like that shouldn’t be noticed before it’s released to the consumer and I’m sure it’s been reported by one of the thousands of other players. We’re not talking an edge case bug that’s hard to reproduce. It’s literally just equipping a different weapon and seeing if the skill activation works. Am I crazy for thinking this is something that shouldn’t be seen for the first time in a production level state of an mmo? Mistakes happen and perhaps it looked fine during development but it doesn’t seem like something that would be drastically different between development and deployment. This just strikes me as, we’re understaffed and this was a side project someone worked on but they had a deadline and figured they’d get to it later. From a beta perspective this seems like something they’d want functioning before hand. Less they notice after it’s already live, the expansion is out, and suddenly they notice resetting warhorn air 5 produces some insane damage that takes weeks or months to push out a fix for or balance around. And only for catalyst, so then they have to go back to the drawing board to figure out how to balance it without ruining the ability on the other specs. This is just an example. You also have sustain issues like water 2 on sword, or earth 2 on sword. I think these are less of an issue but it still seems like something they’d want to know before it gets into the hands of the players. Considering the fact that they didn't even finish the Weaver skills for Hammer before the beta event... I'm not the slightest bit surprised that things were a bit buggy with the Catalyst... it probably was rushed to get it testable by the weekend... atleast one thing was undeniably not finished, so it stands to reason, that some things might not have gotten tested in-house even before the event. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China.5268 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 Maaan i like the new expansion, it is nice to let classes wear the weap from other eli spec but.... some classes will keep missing things like rifle/pist for ranger, a decent ranged weap for condi engi beside pistol(that is the only choice =/, not even a specter seriously 😕), warrior and etc... In my opinion i think all classes should get AT LEAST 1 NEW WEAPON(pls give rang a rifle or pistol and bow/shortbow for elem) and a DECENT RANG WEAP FOR CONDI ENGI, because after the rifle HEAVY NERF eng ranged weapons kinda sux... oooooh wait.. its only one cause actually RIFLE BUILD IS DEAD.. jus like the sup/quickness scrap 🤬. I wonder which spec will be killed nxt and which one will be op... funny thing is .. they NEVER nerfed stealth build PVP/WVW overall AND daredevil unlimited dodges hehe 😁 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 1 hour ago, China.5268 said: Maaan i like the new expansion, it is nice to let classes wear the weap from other eli spec but.... some classes will keep missing things like rifle/pist for ranger, a decent ranged weap for condi engi beside pistol(that is the only choice =/, not even a specter seriously 😕), warrior and etc... In my opinion i think all classes should get AT LEAST 1 NEW WEAPON(pls give rang a rifle or pistol and bow/shortbow for elem) and a DECENT RANG WEAP FOR CONDI ENGI, because after the rifle HEAVY NERF eng ranged weapons kinda sux... oooooh wait.. its only one cause actually RIFLE BUILD IS DEAD.. jus like the sup/quickness scrap 🤬. I wonder which spec will be killed nxt and which one will be op... funny thing is .. they NEVER nerfed stealth build PVP/WVW overall AND daredevil unlimited dodges hehe 😁 Guess you missed this? https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/combat-in-guild-wars-2-secrets-of-the-obscure/ Guardian: Pistol (main and off hand) Revenant: Scepter (main hand) Warrior: Staff Engineer: Short bow Ranger: Mace (main and off hand) Thief: Axe (main hand) Elementalist: Pistol (main hand) Mesmer: Rifle Necromancer: Sword (main and off hand) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelin.9317 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 I like the change. I think balance will be a little rough till we have a couple patches and it will settle again. I am quite excited to use sword on my tempest, warhorn on weaver and try some sword on cata too. I don't care if one build is a few k dps higher or lower. I'll play it for fun regardless. Frankly meta should not matter that much unless you are pushing for speed runs etc. You can clear with non meta comp just fine. If players want to restrict themselves they can, I'll make my own groups that are welcome to anyone that can fulfill the role I am asking for. I only care that as many builds as possible are viable and with some tweaking I'm sure we will have lots of options! But seriously, longbow ele when?! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China.5268 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said: Guess you missed this? https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/combat-in-guild-wars-2-secrets-of-the-obscure/ Guardian: Pistol (main and off hand) Revenant: Scepter (main hand) Warrior: Staff Engineer: Short bow Ranger: Mace (main and off hand) Thief: Axe (main hand) Elementalist: Pistol (main hand) Mesmer: Rifle Necromancer: Sword (main and off hand) No, it is for CORE and NOT ELI SPECS... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda.1967 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, China.5268 said: No, it is for CORE and NOT ELI SPECS... I think you're either confused... or you said the wrong thing before... you said: 3 hours ago, China.5268 said: In my opinion i think all classes should get AT LEAST 1 NEW WEAPON(pls give rang a rifle or pistol and bow/shortbow for elem) and a DECENT RANG WEAP FOR CONDI ENGI, because after the rifle HEAVY NERF eng ranged weapons kinda sux... oooooh wait.. its only one cause actually RIFLE BUILD IS DEAD.. jus like the sup/quickness scrap 🤬. Which they are doing... every class is getting atleast 1 new weapon... unfortunately none are getting the weapons you wanted... except maybe Engineer... we don't know if Shortbow will be Condi or Power... given the fact that Shortbow has been Condi on just about everyone that has it thus far and engineer has mostly power weapons atm, it'll probably be Condi... If you instead meant that you wanted to see new weapons on each espec... then... wow... 27 new weapons... thats asking a bit much.... Edited July 3, 2023 by Panda.1967 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said: In my opinion i think all classes should get AT LEAST 1 NEW WEAPON(pls give rang a rifle or pistol and bow/shortbow for elem) and a DECENT RANG WEAP FOR CONDI ENGI, because after the rifle HEAVY NERF eng ranged weapons kinda sux... oooooh wait.. its only one cause actually RIFLE BUILD IS DEAD Yea you sure specified elite spec here my bad. Considering we'r not get elite specs at all its hard to give a new weapon for it. Edited July 3, 2023 by Linken.6345 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China.5268 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said: Yea you sure specified elite spec here my bad. Considering we'r not get elite specs at all its hard to give a new weapon for it. I guess I/we wont live to see a ranger with pistol or rifle lol 😥 Edited July 4, 2023 by China.5268 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knighthonor.4061 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 2 hours ago, China.5268 said: I guess I/we wont live to see a ranger with pistol or rifle lol 😥 thats likely something saved for an elite spec in the future. this a mini expansion. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1508 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 (edited) How does Berzerker skills work with a short bow? I thought specs got all weapons in SoTO.. my bad. Edited July 4, 2023 by Dante.1508 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 2 hours ago, Dante.1508 said: How does Berzerker skills work with a bow? Haven't Berserkers been able to use a bow for almost six years now? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1508 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said: Haven't Berserkers been able to use a bow for almost six years now? Short bow? Warriors should have had a viable short bow spec. Edited July 4, 2023 by Dante.1508 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiviana.2650 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 On 6/30/2023 at 12:48 AM, KindredPhoenyx.8976 said: So classes are defined by their weapons and not the abilities/effects that make them unique? Ok. I don't remember seeing a mesmer being able to raise the dead, or have nature abilities, or slinging around elemental bolts but sure this is a valid take right? I think you missed the point, this is a easy out for them. Which is fine, but im personally against homogenization and not investing in a new class. I mean it honestly makes no sense for a paladin aka guardian to carry pistols. Sure it sounds cool, but thematically and historically they are holy warrior priests. But you know what I dont care, its not my game, I only play it, till I dont. But im not sure who is running the show, but after the last patch im worried. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastagir.2146 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 New question How come they haven't said how we unlock this system? This is a big change in the game but they don't say anything about how to unlock it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 16 minutes ago, wmtyrance.3571 said: New question How come they haven't said how we unlock this system? This is a big change in the game but they don't say anything about how to unlock it. As I said in your other thread its a mastery how have we unlocked all the other masteries? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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