Can you please limit the matchmaking system to tier rank

[Bunbury.8472]

3 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Realistically speaking we wouldn't need any drastic changes to the matchmaker if option 3 were not an option. If DuoQ is removed or split into a separate ranked arena then matchmaking would; objectively speaking, be a lot better even with the low population.

As it stands DuoQ uses an average of both player's ratings for MMR and it can be used to deliberately snipe one's way into games with lower-rated players. The very concept of 2 players against 1 doesn't belong in any competitive gamemode in any game.

keeping a smurf account in bronze for this is more difficult than maintaining a high leaderboard position solo queue. it does work, but it's not worth the effort. getting the smurf to bronze and keeping it there is just too much work and time.

plus, the population on NA is so small it doesn't make much of a difference in match quality at all, you just save the plat players some pips on loss.

it's not really worth the effort at all. better to just duo regular. actually doing things like stomping and peeling for teammates is more powerful than any sort of match manipulation because the NA population is so dead you basically get matched with the same gold played regardless.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

2 hours ago, Bunbury.8472 said:

keeping a smurf account in bronze for this is more difficult than maintaining a high leaderboard position solo queue. it does work, but it's not worth the effort. getting the smurf to bronze and keeping it there is just too much work and time.

Bronze would be the most extreme example possible and like I just pointed out, so long as the alt is in at least gold1 then the entire DuoQ is going to have gold matchmaking. And it requires 0 effort whatsoever. You log in to the alt, soloQ, turn on a movie and sit in spawn. Sometimes the other 4 poor randomly assigned teammates will win, but the majority of the time they're going to lose 4v5.

2 hours ago, Bunbury.8472 said:

plus, the population on NA is so small it doesn't make much of a difference in match quality at all, you just save the plat players some pips on loss.

True, it doesn't make much of a diff in match quality, but the latter isn't a concern in the slightest when people are winning 80, 90, or even 100% of their games played which is usually the case when you allow the handful of 'top players' to work together against an anemic playerbase with no limitations whatsoever.

2 hours ago, Bunbury.8472 said:

it's not really worth the effort at all. better to just duo regular. actually doing things like stomping and peeling for teammates is more powerful than any sort of match manipulation because the NA population is so dead you basically get matched with the same gold played regardless.

That's because DuoQ; for all intents and purposes, pretty much is match manipulation on its own. How someone can compete 2 against 1 and then claim to be a god gamer with a straight face is beyond me. It isn't fair in the slightest and an unfair competition isn't worth engaging in unless masochism is the motivator. It should not exist in ranked PvP or any ranked game at all. 🧑‍🤝‍🧑👉🚪

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

4 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I find it very unlikely somebody is going to take the time to get to plat, then invite a genuine bronze level friend into duo.. his rating will tank.

Not if they don't lose any games, which is what usually happens when people playing at the upper plat and legendary divisions play with gold or lower matchmaking. Bronze would also be the most extreme example and you don't even have to tank that low to snipe your way into gold matches.

4 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

On the other hand, I often see returning or rating degraded plat players rising through the ranks in gold, they are clearly much better than that. Those players could ofc join a plat friend, and save all us lower rated guys from being their stepping stone. Im sure they would prefere that too.

I think what you said about matchmaking is overall true and that it really doesn't matter if two plats DuoQ together because they're probably the only 2 plats doing so at any given time and the matchmaker is going to place them against golds regardless just to give them a match so they aren't waiting 30+ mins in queue. Top player DuoQs very rarely go against other top player DuoQs and that is by design. 100% intentional.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

ppl really want an ideal scenario without thinking it thru

[Khalisto.5780]

matchmaker shouldnt scale as fast as it does now, that will put together 600 rating apart players within 5 min, 7 min tops, when it should take at least double this time.

When it takes 10 min, q dodging is severely nerfed, you wait the ppl you dont want to fight against get in a match, now you're in a 10+ min q, suddenly the ppl you dodging won the match and you're a matched against them, removing duo q would be even better, cuz maybe you can dodge 1 player, but having the 2 highest rated players in the same team would never happen again.

[Bunbury.8472]

2 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Bronze would be the most extreme example possible and like I just pointed out, so long as the alt is in at least gold1 then the entire DuoQ is going to have gold matchmaking. And it requires 0 effort whatsoever. You log in to the alt, soloQ, turn on a movie and sit in spawn. Sometimes the other 4 poor randomly assigned teammates will win, but the majority of the time they're going to lose 4v5.

True,  doesn't make much of a diff in match quality, but the latter isn't a concern in the slightest when people are winning 80, 90, or even 100% of their games played which is usually the case when you allow the handful of 'top players' to work together against an anemic playerbase with no limitations whatsoever.

. 🧑‍🤝‍🧑👉🚪

dude you get gold matchmaking regardless as a plat player on NA. it's literally not worth the time and effort (I guess if you don't have a job or do anything with your life you can spend all your time deranking smurfs, but most people don't want to dedicate free time to this. I only did it between film contracts when I was curious what the bronze life was actually like) to derank a smurf for matchmaking, because you get the same gold players in your games regardless. it's a waste of time when the matchmaker doesn't have 10 plats to make a game with there is no need to even have a low rank smurf.

you don't need to match manipulate to get high rank right now with the low skill low pop player base. just play whatever FotM spec is busted right now and rotate half decent and congrats top 50 players wowowowowowowowowow dead game.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Bunbury.8472

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

4 hours ago, Bunbury.8472 said:

dude you get gold matchmaking regardless as a plat player on NA. it's literally not worth the time and effort (I guess if you don't have a job or do anything with your life you can spend all your time deranking smurfs, but most people don't want to dedicate free time to this. I only did it between film contracts when I was curious what the bronze life was actually like) to derank a smurf for matchmaking, because you get the same gold players in your games regardless. it's a waste of time when the matchmaker doesn't have 10 plats to make a game with there is no need to even have a low rank smurf.

you don't need to match manipulate to get high rank right now with the low skill low pop player base. just play whatever FotM spec is busted right now and rotate half decent and congrats top 50 players wowowowowowowowowow dead game.

I think you drastically underestimate the lengths at which the wintrading cartel will go to in order to get what they want. Its beyond free time. They've made cheating in this game a profitable side-job because equally deranged people are willing to pay hundreds, even thousands of dollars for titles, gizmos, and guild wars clout despite you being absolutely correct in saying they could achieve it without extending all the effort to make the process easier.

It doesn't remove the fact that they still could, and the argument "nobody would ever do that it" is exactly the kind of knee-jerk dismissal that allows for things like match manipulation to happen in the first place. The blind assumption that just because something sounds ridiculous; that it cannot ever occur, even though you, me, or anyone really could do this at any point so long as DuoQ exists. The very idea is insane and petty; I'll give you that, but that's exactly the type of person one is discussing when they mention the wintraders. Its important to acknowledge the ways DuoQ can be used to manipulate the outcome of matches & the leaderboard and ways in which the rules can be subverted because it highlights how detrimental DuoQ is to a competition. At the end of the day, its the rules and fundamentals that dictate the game, never the individuals that engage in it.

Also nobody is wintrading for top 50 either. If they're paying $600 to get rank 1, they're getting rank 1. The seller has an obligation at that point to deliver and its reasonable to consider they will use all the tools at their disposal to get it. Smurfing, I'll say again, is actually incredibly low-effort. You queue normally at first and piggyback off the initial rating boost and then when you reach a comfortable spot, your DuoQ buddy switches to the smurf for ez pz lemon sqzy matches. Its a solid way to reach the bare minimum 120 games played to be ranked without any threat whatsoever of actually losing.

[razaelll.8324]

21 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Right now, the entire pvp playerbase is suffering, just so plat players don't have a long que time.

Please speak for your self mate, I am not suffering at all (currently gold 1) ... And I don't mind having any type of players as long as the team mmr is close to equal.

 

I like playing against stronger opponents , because that's how I learn and improve .

 

In my opinion much bigger issue is that you can swap classes and bypass the matchmaking and manipulate it in that way, and duoQ.

Edited July 9, 2023 by razaelll.8324

[Flowki.7194]

2 hours ago, razaelll.8324 said:

Please speak for your self mate, I am not suffering at all (currently gold 1) ... And I don't mind having any type of players as long as the team mmr is close to equal.

 

I like playing against stronger opponents , because that's how I learn and improve .

 

In my opinion much bigger issue is that you can swap classes and bypass the matchmaking and manipulate it in that way, and duoQ.

Then you are in the exception group. There is very little to learn as a silver/bronze player, being killed by a plat in a live game.. thats what dueling is for, its far better for learning. You also don't understand psychology at all, if people continously lose and feel like they have no chance, they stop, that applies to anything, not just gaming. Putting a vet gold/plat player against true bronze/silver newbs means they will lose almost every 1v1 fight (and even a lot of 2v1's), bar some fringe exceptions. Just look at all the uproar now about ''unkillable cata'' driving people out of pvp, becuase they feel they cannot compete against it. Plat/high gold players (who will be playing a solid dps) have that same effect on low silver/bronze players. They will either quit, or just not take ranked seriously, and stop engaging with team play.

 

[razaelll.8324]

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Then you are in the exception group. There is very little to learn as a silver/bronze player, being killed by a plat in a live game.. thats what dueling is for, its far better for learning. You also don't understand psychology at all, if people continously lose and feel like they have no chance, they stop, that applies to anything, not just gaming. Putting a vet gold/plat player against true bronze/silver newbs means they will lose almost every 1v1 fight (and even a lot of 2v1's), bar some fringe exceptions. Just look at all the uproar now about ''unkillable cata'' driving people out of pvp, becuase they feel they cannot compete against it. Plat/high gold players (who will be playing a solid dps) have that same effect on low silver/bronze players. They will either quit, or just not take ranked seriously, and stop engaging with team play.

 

Everybody new is inexperienced and will loose more at the begining than win that's pretty normal. I disagree that it's very little to learn by fighting against stronger players. It depends on you really. I personally learn faster when I go against stronger people. Some people are not like that. Is people like me minority or not I don't know I don't have statistics on the topic if you do please share them, if you don't then speak for your self please and do not generalize. Also please don't get me wrong your point of view is very understandable and mean no disrespect, I just disagree with vast generalizations without data to back them up.

 

The outcome of loosing is 2 directional either it will stimulate you to learn or discourage you, I personally am from the first type,I started with very bad win/loose ratio but in time it improved and before I quited 2 years ago I managed to go in top 250, I came back 2 weeks ago and I am still learning the new meta and specs and slowly but steady climbing and I really enjoy the process. Willing to learn from your looses and mistakes is the essence of being competitive in my opinion.

As I said in my opinion class swapping and duoQ are much bigger issues, and should be addressed first. I believe this 2 things actually drive much more people out of pvp. Also if there were more frequent balance adjustments it would be much better for the health of spvp.

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by razaelll.8324

[Flowki.7194]

20 hours ago, razaelll.8324 said:

Everybody new is inexperienced and will loose more at the begining than win that's pretty normal. I disagree that it's very little to learn by fighting against stronger players. It depends on you really. I personally learn faster when I go against stronger people. Some people are not like that. Is people like me minority or not I don't know I don't have statistics on the topic if you do please share them, if you don't then speak for your self please and do not generalize. Also please don't get me wrong your point of view is very understandable and mean no disrespect, I just disagree with vast generalizations without data to back them up.

 

The outcome of loosing is 2 directional either it will stimulate you to learn or discourage you, I personally am from the first type,I started with very bad win/loose ratio but in time it improved and before I quited 2 years ago I managed to go in top 250, I came back 2 weeks ago and I am still learning the new meta and specs and slowly but steady climbing and I really enjoy the process. Willing to learn from your looses and mistakes is the essence of being competitive in my opinion.

As I said in my opinion class swapping and duoQ are much bigger issues, and should be addressed first. I believe this 2 things actually drive much more people out of pvp. Also if there were more frequent balance adjustments it would be much better for the health of spvp.

 

It is genuinely against human psychology to continually lose, and to then keep doing the same thing. We see this happen in movies, where some ''hero'' fails and fails and fails until finally succeding, but that isn't how it works in real life for the mass majority of people. If you are a support for example, and you continually get killed while your team mates (who are low silver bronze) don't peel becuase they simply don't know how to, most will not play support for long, and they don't (even I rarely play support now, and I much prefere it). Similarly, if you play a thief, and get killed in every mid fight around players who actaully know to pressure, becuase the thief is not built to team fight.. then you will stop going to team fights. I see ''novice'' thiefs doing this all the time, they know they die in group fights, they are not confident in 1v1, so they actively avoid pvp and go far to back cap all game. They get caps, and convince themself they are useful, so continue this playstyle (even though we know this makes every mid fight a 5v4 / 4v3) which is why many players hate having a novice thief on their team. I once had a game where our mesmer litterally refused to leave spawn becuase we had 2 thiefs. This isn't about thiefs, but its about the perception of ''having a chance to win in some way''. Going up against genuine gold/plat skilled playre, reduces a bronze/silvers chance to have some form of personal victory.. be it a 1v1 on far or w/e.. they just get destroyed.

 

Ask any plat player, they all mostly admit that winning games is based on who can take the most advantedge of the other teams less skilled players. If you continually kill 3 newb ''roamers'' (aka feeders), their plat player is then at a huge 5 or 4v2 disadvantedge most of the game.

[razaelll.8324]

7 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

It is genuinely against human psychology to continually lose, and to then keep doing the same thing. We see this happen in movies, where some ''hero'' fails and fails and fails until finally succeding, but that isn't how it works in real life for the mass majority of people. If you are a support for example, and you continually get killed while your team mates (who are low silver bronze) don't peel becuase they simply don't know how to, most will not play support for long, and they don't (even I rarely play support now, and I much prefere it). Similarly, if you play a thief, and get killed in every mid fight around players who actaully know to pressure, becuase the thief is not built to team fight.. then you will stop going to team fights. I see ''novice'' thiefs doing this all the time, they know they die in group fights, they are not confident in 1v1, so they actively avoid pvp and go far to back cap all game. They get caps, and convince themself they are useful, so continue this playstyle (even though we know this makes every mid fight a 5v4 / 4v3) which is why many players hate having a novice thief on their team. I once had a game where our mesmer litterally refused to leave spawn becuase we had 2 thiefs. This isn't about thiefs, but its about the perception of ''having a chance to win in some way''. Going up against genuine gold/plat skilled playre, reduces a bronze/silvers chance to have some form of personal victory.. be it a 1v1 on far or w/e.. they just get destroyed.

 

Ask any plat player, they all mostly admit that winning games is based on who can take the most advantedge of the other teams less skilled players. If you continually kill 3 newb ''roamers'' (aka feeders), their plat player is then at a huge 5 or 4v2 disadvantedge most of the game.

I am not saying that you should do same thing over and over I am saying that you should learn from your looses... It's very logical that the wining team will focus on the weakest player and he has to learn to adapt try different things different builds, classes, practice in unranked and etc.. as I said everybody was a noob when he started that's not an excuse of not willing to learn and practice. At least that's my view and for me the process of learning that way is the most enjoyable part of pvp, learning and practicing so you would be more useful for your team and your skill improves with your rank. When I started I was the main target and as I said I had terrible win/loose ratio that never demotivated me but the opposite it motivated me to improve practice and get better, so in time I started wining more and more 1v1 fights then I started managing 1v2 and etc. 

 

Tldr. I understand your point and it is a best case scenario but it works only if you have big enought population, but we don't so this would not work properly at the moment imo. You can take ff14 for example there the pvp community is also small and below plat the queue is fine . There bronze silver and gold are matched together. Once you enter plat you wait 2 hour to find a match because there are not enought people at this rank. So in my opinion if they address the class swapping and duoq wintrading + do more frequent balance that will bring more people into pvp and then what you propose would work.

Edited July 10, 2023 by razaelll.8324

[SlayerXX.7138]

29 minutes ago, razaelll.8324 said:

I am not saying that you should do same thing over and over I am saying that you should learn from your looses..

Go in the Ring with a prime mike Tyson, tell me how much you think you gonna learn from the fight. My guess? "Don't go in the ring with Iron Mike"
There are better players in a smaller range too. You act like Gold 1 fighting Gold 3 is a fight devoid of skill difference.
If someone wants to get destroyed by better players they can join the tournaments. They even get 10 Gold for their troubles.

Edited July 10, 2023 by SlayerXX.7138

[Flowki.7194]

There is nothing to learn from this matchmaking system. It is RNG of who has the most newbs.. and ontop of that, who has a condi cata with half a braincell.

 

I am absolutely tired of being put into games with silver and bronze players. I don't care about rank becuase rank right now means nothing. If you are bronze, silver gold or plat, you are mixed in with this dead playerbase of all ranks, where trying to team work is just pointless, and winning is also pointless as you will never escape being put in with silvers and bronze once in gold. Its toxic, its not fun.. and tbf Im about done with this god aweful game.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[razaelll.8324]

29 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Go in the Ring with a prime mike Tyson, tell me how much you think you gonna learn from the fight. My guess? "Don't go in the ring with Iron Mike"
There are better players in a smaller range too. You act like Gold 1 fighting Gold 3 is a fight devoid of skill difference.
If someone wants to get destroyed by better players they can join the tournaments. They even get 10 Gold for their troubles.

No I am not acting that way and if you read what I said in my previous post you would see that. You act like a group of bronze is against group of plat and that's not the case the matchmaking is trying to make teams with close average mmr so probably both teams will have gold1 and plat players. Also as I said previously I have been in much higher rank thank gold1 previously just I recently came back and I am learning the new meta and the new elites. Also in my amateur boxing carrier I learned from better people than me not from worse..

Edited July 10, 2023 by razaelll.8324

[razaelll.8324]

24 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

There is nothing to learn from this matchmaking system. It is RNG of who has the most newbs.. and ontop of that, who has a condi cata with half a braincell.

 

I am absolutely tired of being put into games with silver and bronze players. I don't care about rank becuase rank right now means nothing. If you are bronze, silver gold or plat, you are mixed in with this dead playerbase of all ranks, where trying to team work is just pointless, and winning is also pointless as you will never escape being put in with silvers and bronze once in gold. Its toxic, its not fun.. and tbf Im about done with this god aweful game.

Sorry but I disagree for the reason mentioned above, as I said I am not against what you propose it is the best case scenario, but in the current state of pvp I don't think it would work and there are other things to be fixed first before that

Edited July 10, 2023 by razaelll.8324

[Flowki.7194]

18 minutes ago, razaelll.8324 said:

Sorry but I disagree for the reason mentioned above, as I said I am not against what you propose it is the best case scenario, but in the current state of pvp I don't think it would work and there are other things to be fixed first before that

There will always be a million things to fix on a game balance level becuase the core mechancis of the game are way to casual, almost everything is AOE and multiple abilities do 3 or 5 things for 1 signle button. It's either faceroll DPS for 5 buttons, or absolute bunker build face tanking ''what is dodging?'' for 5 buttons. Any of the more complicated specs are basically redundent on an effort>reward scale (weaver, power cata, old engi builds etc) under the shear ease and wide spread use of the bs casual specs like sb, virt, scrapper, condi cata, blade, necro in general, rangers AFK vines, DH trap spam, targets drops across multiple classes. The weapons have not even landed yet, which is going to break the game even further.

 

Basically.. this game will never, ever be balanced on a core mechanic level, its simply impossible withough a complete revamp. However, they can at least fix the matchmaking system, which isn't hard to do, and would remove 90% of the frustration of playing with newbs, or people just trolling and running meme specs/farming dailys/ AFK/ w/e else.

[SlayerXX.7138]

48 minutes ago, razaelll.8324 said:

You act like a group of bronze is against group of plat and that's not the case the matchmaking is trying to make teams with close average mmr so probably both teams will have gold1 and plat players.

In my silver 3 game was a plat 3. I could walk over some of my opponents, I don't know what the Plat did to them because some of my opponents just got teleported back to spawn. 1 Division is gigantic gap. While my Ego is quit big, I know when the game gives me Freelo thanks to matchmaking.
Gold 1 vs plat players is not a match it is a joke. Less so when the gold 1 are gold 3 in disguise like yourself.

48 minutes ago, razaelll.8324 said:

Also in my amateur boxing carrier I learned from better people than me not from worse..

Pls explain to me what and how did you learn from getting punched in the face by people that are faster then you and 20kg non-fat mass heavier then you.

Edited July 10, 2023 by SlayerXX.7138

[razaelll.8324]

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

There will always be a million things to fix on a game balance level becuase the core mechancis of the game are way to casual, almost everything is AOE and multiple abilities do 3 or 5 things for 1 signle button. It's either faceroll DPS for 5 buttons, or absolute bunker build face tanking ''what is dodging?'' for 5 buttons. Any of the more complicated specs are basically redundent on an effort>reward scale (weaver, power cata, old engi builds etc) under the shear ease and wide spread use of the bs casual specs like sb, virt, scrapper, condi cata, blade, necro in general, rangers AFK vines, DH trap spam, targets drops across multiple classes. The weapons have not even landed yet, which is going to break the game even further.

 

Basically.. this game will never, ever be balanced on a core mechanic level, its simply impossible withough a complete revamp. However, they can at least fix the matchmaking system, which isn't hard to do, and would remove 90% of the frustration of playing with newbs, or people just trolling and running meme specs/farming dailys/ AFK/ w/e else.

I never said the game will be balanced I said that more frequent balance tuning will be greatly appreciated by the pvp community and also that in my opinion duoQ and class slapping are much bigger issues in my opinion which can be fixed quite easely , which will decrease the frustration of player by quite a lot in my opinion

Edited July 10, 2023 by razaelll.8324

[razaelll.8324]

2 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

In my silver 3 game was a plat 3. I could walk over some of my opponents, I don't know what the Plat did to them because some of my opponents just got teleported back to spawn. 1 Division is gigantic gap. While my Ego is quit big, I know when the game gives me Freelo thanks to matchmaking.
Gold 1 vs plat players is not a match it is a joke. Less so when the gold 1 are gold 3 in disguise like yourself.

Yes silver player don't have much change against plat player in 1 v 1 , but you are not playing 1v1 mode the match making is trying to match the teams to have similar average mmr which means that if you are silver 3 and you have plat opponent them most probably you have plat player in your team too to balance the forces. This is a team mode after all not 1v1.

 

2 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Pls explain to me what and how did you learn from getting punched in the face by people that are faster then you and 20kg non-fat mass heavier then you.

This is not good comparison you are not fighting against "heavier " opponent in terms of character power the pvp is equalized so you are fighting more experienced opponent, so you are not 50 kg fighting against 100 kg you are 50 kg inexperienced against 50 kg experienced person. Fire weaver in your hands and in my hands have the same physical power, the difference is only the player skill. When I said that in my carrier I learned from better opponents I ment more experienced and skilled not physically stronger.   It is basically the same when I started I got my self beaten on my sparing but in time I learned my opponent movements ,weaknesses ,improved my technic by practicing and etc so I in time I started holding my ground against them and finally beat them .... Same as in the game start as a noob , practice, learn and then start wining. It's not a good idea to start learning by jumping in ranked pvp before you even know what you are doing and have some basics. You should first learn your class , practice your burst on dummy then practice in unranked , learn what different classes do , their strengths and weaknesses and then you start going into ranked ....

Edited July 10, 2023 by razaelll.8324

[razaelll.8324]

On 7/8/2023 at 9:22 PM, Saiyan.1704 said:

This triggered an old memory, before AT's and before the PiP reward system (so several years ago). Anet added a bracket system like that. The average queue times were between 8minutes to 12minutes. It looked for your bracket first then expanded to other brackets after an allotted time. According to anet, "there wasn't an improvement in match quality when increasing queue times" - [paraphrasing][forgot where and when it was said].

(Edit: found a source)

"The problem is the system will trash until those rosters are matched, causing everyone behind them to be stuck waiting. Also, just because we can't find a match customized for a specific roster doesn't mean the roster won't be picked as part of another match customized for some other roster. E.g. a high MMR team may not be able to find 5-9 players at the same high level, but they may be able to fill the a spot with someone lower but whom they're still in range of. Justin ODell (talk) 16:35, 2 December 2014"

Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Talk:PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

TL;DR version: Increasing queue times strictly for Brackets didn't work very well. Majority of players were frustrated with long queue times and it didn't drastically increase match quality.

Thank you for the source.

[SlayerXX.7138]

12 hours ago, razaelll.8324 said:

This is not good comparison you are not fighting against "heavier " opponent in terms of character power the pvp is equalized so you are fighting more experienced opponent, so you are not 50 kg fighting against 100 kg you are 50 kg inexperienced against 50 kg experienced person.

People heavily underestimate how self selecting MMO's are. Finger dexterity and visual comprehension of all the clutter is the heavier and faster of MMO combat. Most top Basketball players or Strong man are suspiciously tall. On top of that is the setup you have at home, internet connection and so on. In addition to that some builds are just stronger then others. All things the make just stronger regardless of skill.
 

12 hours ago, razaelll.8324 said:

Same as in the game start as a noob , practice, learn and then start wining. It's not a good idea to start learning by jumping in ranked pvp before you even know what you are doing and have some basics. You should first learn your class , practice your burst on dummy then practice in unranked , learn what different classes do , their strengths and weaknesses and then you start going into ranked ....

Little reminder: This is a game. A game where I, a Person who did none of that, couldn't tell you the precast of a single animation and barley manage my 16 key binds is the ca. 280 best Player EU. Also I'm a little confused, didn't you say we should learn from better opponents?

Edited July 11, 2023 by SlayerXX.7138

[Bazsi.2734]

On 7/8/2023 at 7:49 PM, Flowki.7194 said:

Clearly a plat player who got use to wins against vastly inferior enemy. Click option 3.

Option 3 has nothing to do with me though. Last time I went into ranked as a duo was in the first 2v2 season. If I actually played with an equally skilled duo, I would farm ranked so hard it's not even funny. Which is probably why I'm not doing that, what's the fun in winning by default?
I'm just pointing out that putting a hard limit on how far apart your opponents can be in rating will make it so that the very top and the very bottom of players simply wont get games. 

You don't really need to think too deep about it to run into problems: If your division separation thingie is in effect, how would one get games after getting "lucky"/"unlucky" with qualifiers? It's possible to win/lose all 10 games and be legend/bronze right at the start, with noone else even close to that rating. Is their season just over? 

[Flowki.7194]

14 hours ago, razaelll.8324 said:

I never said the game will be balanced I said that more frequent balance tuning will be greatly appreciated by the pvp community and also that in my opinion duoQ and class slapping are much bigger issues in my opinion which can be fixed quite easely , which will decrease the frustration of player by quite a lot in my opinion

I don't have a problem with duo que if its actually done right; rating goes on highest player, matchmaking is fixed so that plat/high gold duo will never face silver EVER. I actually think full pre-made should be a thing, with an actual decent matchmaking system based on the highest player rating. However, it seems people here are scared of full premades, I assume due to the developers failed attempts to get it rigth leaving the vets with pre-made ptsd or something. WOW did premade arena for years, it had its class based balance issues, but the actual system was very good, all things considered. ''Plat rating climbers'' will always be something you will see here and their, joining new teams etc, even seen it in wow. Difference with wow is that once you got to a certain level, you were matched with players much closer to that level, unless you were in a dead server (I think they then also introduced more servers into the same zone to help adress the issue). Point is, I've seen what a decent matchmaking system looks like, and Gw2 falls FAR short, genuinely far short.

 

There is no wonder bots/afkers are so common in this ranked, even in gold, as they can be carried and held in higher elos through this rediculous RNG matchmaking. That alone is a solid reason for tier based matchmaking, so all the bots, afkers and out right troller/selfish players can sink to low bronze. Sure that will suck for somebody who is a newb and might end up in low bronze, but again.. its a numbers game. Why subject 80% of the middle playerbase to this (and to being qued with plats on the other end). Putting this burden on the majority of the pvp playerbase I can garuntee is unhealthy for playerbase retention, how is spvp playerbase doing?... was kitten long before cata.

 

Now I barely even see any good players, As gold 2, at least six of the players Im matched with were very clearly bronze/low silver at best, 20 games in a row. Maybe the good players left becuase of cata, but that's just the iceneing on the shitcake. There will always be a broken spec that good players will abuse, its better to let them climb with a capped matchmaking system, where they then impact the fewest people possible. As said in other threads, a brainded cata/scrapper/sb is a free kill to a compitant player on just about any class.. the bad bandwaggon players will no longer get carried by the actual good players, and will fall to where they belong. So then, you won't have those games where the very good SB on mid, is basically stunlocking the kitten out of everything, indirectly protecting that noob condi cata/necro/meser or w/e.. who essentially spams auto attacks.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Eddbopkins.2630]

On 7/8/2023 at 1:21 PM, Bazsi.2734 said:

I agree. We need to stop players on the very top from getting games! Being good at the game should be a punishable offense, like log off touch grass get a life REEEEEEE!

But why can't good players play against other good players? What wr have now is plat going up against silvers and gold 1 alot of the time. That just not fair.