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Suggestion: Stop PvP CC chain


Noenp.2041

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Its absurd how players rely so much on stun chains in PvP. An enemy player that is caught in one of these chains is 100% dead, no matter how many cc breaks, shadowsteps, heals, stability they have. My suggestion is that an inner cooldown to be added to avoid those cc chains, 1 to 2s of immunity is more than enough, just to give the player a change to survive the onslaught.

Edited by Noenp.2041
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13 minutes ago, Noenp.2041 said:

Its absurd how players rely so much on stun chains in PvP. An enemy player that is caught in one of these chains is 100% dead, no matter how many cc breaks, shadowsteps, heals, stability they have. My suggestion is that an inner cooldown to be added to avoid those cc chains, 1 to 2s of immunity is more than enough, just to give the player a change to survive the onslaught.

Are you talking about sPVP or WvW? Skills and effects work different depending on which game mode you are talking about here even for Crowd Control effects.

There is also two type of CC: soft CC from conditions and hard CC like stun, daze (interrupt skill usage and put skills on a short cool down) and movement type of hard CC (where character also will be moved or have animation that force player out of control until it have ended or a stun break have been used) knockdown, knockback, pull, launch, float (in air or water), sink (in water force down movement), fear and taunt are both hard and soft CC.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Control_effect#Control_effects

Your suggestion to have a short immunity have already been tried and it wont help if you get attacked by several players at once as it would still add up (or be chained), if a group coordinate their attack on a single player as a target. There is a target cap on most skills including AoE skills that does CC (most skill with CC doesn't do much damage on their own and need other skills for doing damage).

It also would introduce another problem where a single player would have a very hard to time to keep another mobile player in one place to have enough range to even hit target (with teleport, stealth that remove target and need to be re-target and with leap, dodge etc).

Melee skills and weapon with short range would be very useless in that situation, if you would fight anybody that combine ranged weapon or skills and have a lot of movement skills or access to mitigate combat (stealth, invulnerability or pet/illusion/summon).

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I was talking about sPvP and hard CC, soft CC would work the same. "Stun lock" in games is extremely game breaking and so strong that players always opt to do it when they have the chance. The problem I see is, for example, thiefs which we all know are the most slippery class in game, not even them have a chance to survive when CC locked like that if they don't have shadowstep out of cooldown, and even then its if they aren't for exemple, tethered by magebane tether. And don't get me started on invinsibility with abilities that keep following an invisible target while they are being channeled, that's another topic for another day. I don't think that 1s or less of immunity to hard cc would make someone to hard to catch, 1 player doesn't have that many hard cc's to make that much of a difference while waiting on cooldowns, now an entire team doing chain hard cc's is to much locking.

Edited by Noenp.2041
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4 hours ago, Noenp.2041 said:

Its absurd how players rely so much on stun chains in PvP. An enemy player that is caught in one of these chains is 100% dead, no matter how many cc breaks, shadowsteps, heals, stability they have. My suggestion is that an inner cooldown to be added to avoid those cc chains, 1 to 2s of immunity is more than enough, just to give the player a change to survive the onslaught.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability

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Any examples? Cause the text seems way exaggerated. "No amount of stunbreaks helps with CC chains" yet most builds pack like 2 stunbreaks and 1 (short) stab source and CC is almost a non-issue.

Are you maybe not stunbreaking at the right times? If someone is CC chaining they arent doing dmg. Worst case you are outnumbered and will die anyway, CC chain or no.

 

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1-2 stunbreaks depending on comp is mandatory, people that refuse to take not even 1 stunbreak are playing with fire and usually get punished for it.
If you get cc chained by multiple players, that's on you and bad positioning.
It's the same as people complaining about conditions while having 0 sources of condi cleanse.
You have tools to counter it, use them.

Edited by Greyrat.2378
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@Noenp.2041 i could allready see it:

We identify a Problem going right now that is called too many CC's in the Game. We mentioned it and will Nerf every of warrs CC skills to 1 second now! Keep up the good work and Go on!  A-Net

 

Meanwhile warrs cc's are not even the Main Problem kekw. Not needed nerf to a class mechanic that is needed to make the class Work *Check* xd

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10 hours ago, Noenp.2041 said:

Its absurd how players rely so much on stun chains in PvP. An enemy player that is caught in one of these chains is 100% dead, no matter how many cc breaks, shadowsteps, heals, stability they have. My suggestion is that an inner cooldown to be added to avoid those cc chains, 1 to 2s of immunity is more than enough, just to give the player a change to survive the onslaught.

What you are asking for alredy exists in the form of stunbreaks.

For thief you just go to any utility slot and replace it with Blinding Powder. It is a stunbreak and you get 1 sec of stability. In Addition you also blind nearby foes and you get stealth if you can.

Use your stunbreaks just after you got hit with a cc not right before you get hit with the next cc.

Don't waste stunbreaks sometimes its fine to be in cc when your opponents have no follow up and/or the cc is short.

Daze is rarely worth breaking.

Maybe your imobilized and not in cc.

 

 

Edited by Alabastrum.9361
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10 hours ago, Noenp.2041 said:

...if they don't have shadowstep out of cooldown, and even then its if they aren't for exemple, tethered by magebane tether..

Is this the best example? Because to get Magebane Tethered you either have to have hit into a full counter or got hit by a burst skill.
So in this example you've not dodged a CC, not dodged a burst and/or hit into a full counter.

It sounds like using dodges more wisely is the solution to your problem.

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Yes, i was speaking of 1v4, but that also happens in 1v1. Not having a inner immunity makes it so that there is less variety of builds, everyone that wants to kill has to have as many cc's as possible while everyone that wants to survive has to have cc breaks or stability, limiting the builds any class can have. Waiting for the cc to end is only going to get you killed, dodging only works 2 times in a row, 3 if you are DD and still you have to get used to the iframes. The cc immunity would either be applied after each cc or after the player uses a stunbreak so you can at least use any mobility, heal, buff or dodge to try and survive, up to 2 seconds would be more than enough since most heals take that time to channel, more than 2 secounds would just be overkill. Also it would make mashing every skill key available to kill something, less viable, and this is not just speaking of players but speaking of bots too, we all know that this game has a huge problem with bots and we also all know that they are not just in pve.

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21 hours ago, Noenp.2041 said:

An enemy player that is caught in one of these chains is 100% dead, no matter how many cc breaks, shadowsteps, heals, stability they have.

If they have even one of these it's not a CC chain, and if it's on cooldown it's because they used it.

Seems fair to me 👀👍 

What, you wanna take stunbeaks, use them, eat a cc chain then get "I'm getting blendered too hard" pity mechanics?  If escapes are infinite the classes that need to make sure you stay still to damage you in any meaningful way lose their ability to fight. 

If you want an example of how this works in practice, look at current Catalyst and how staunch auras makes it effectively immune to lockdown. 

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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13 hours ago, Greyrat.2378 said:

1-2 stunbreaks depending on comp is mandatory, people that refuse to take not even 1 stunbreak are playing with fire and usually get punished for it.
If you get cc chained by multiple players, that's on you and bad positioning.
It's the same as people complaining about conditions while having 0 sources of condi cleanse.
You have tools to counter it, use them.

What good is a stunbreak when you can immediately get stunned right after?  Most PvP games have temporary stun immunity to mitigate permanent player loss of control.  Certain classes get stuns that last upwards of 4 seconds, while a class I play stuns for like 1.5 seconds and it's over.  Also, some classes get an almost endless supply of Stability while maintaining ridiculous damage output, while other classes adding stability is a huge detriment to your damage output.  Don't get me started on escape skills some classes have and saves while downed compared to other classes.  Telling people to "Just GitGud" in a game as unbalanced as this is a true schmuck move.  

Edited by Alaeacus.9635
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22 hours ago, Noenp.2041 said:

The problem I see is, for example, thiefs which we all know are the most slippery class in game, not even them have a chance to survive when CC locked like that

Thief is able to ignore literally everything thanks to some honestly asinine amount of evades\blinds\weakness\stealth\ports\dashes. Either you spam enough CC to make sure they stand still long enough for you to do SOMETHING or there won't be any way to kill one ever.

Edited by Terrorhuz.4695
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If the problem is getting to be able to kill a thief then what should be done is NOT add more CC's, but instead rework stealth altogether. Games like Archeage and Elder Scrolls Online have a stealth system where from far you are completely invisible while when you get to close to someone you become translucent, targatable but with the name not showing , Anet just needed to do a stealth system like this and you wouldn't even need the reveal debuff nor the endless CC chains. Heck, they could even make a stealth system that would work like, over 500 range you get completely invisible, 500 to 200 range you become translucent but untargetable and under 200 range you are translucent but targetable.

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5 minutes ago, Noenp.2041 said:

If the problem is getting to be able to kill a thief then what should be done is NOT add more CC's, but instead rework stealth altogether. Games like Archeage and Elder Scrolls Online have a stealth system where from far you are completely invisible while when you get to close to someone you become translucent, targatable but with the name not showing , Anet just needed to do a stealth system like this and you wouldn't even need the reveal debuff nor the endless CC chains. Heck, they could even make a stealth system that would work like, over 500 range you get completely invisible, 500 to 200 range you become translucent but untargetable and under 200 range you are translucent but targetable.

If this was implemented, pistol mainhand thieves and rifle deadeyes would snipe you from across the map with no attack downtime.

The problem isnt just killing thieves. That's Terrorhuz's hangup specifically. The problem is the classes that deal those CC chains need to do that to set you up for damage.

If you are not evading the CC, the alternative will kill you faster. The moment CC doesn't guaranteed disable you, there's no excuse for it doing insignificant damage. instead of getting stunlocked you will crumple immediately from damage. 

It would be easier for you and the other players if you learned what skills hit you hard, and saved your stunbreaks to avoid specifically those animations, instead of asking the game be reworked so you have additional time to act vs someone you're already not evading. 

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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7 minutes ago, Noenp.2041 said:

If the problem is getting to be able to kill a thief then what should be done is NOT add more CC's, but instead rework stealth altogether. Games like Archeage and Elder Scrolls Online have a stealth system where from far you are completely invisible while when you get to close to someone you become translucent, targatable but with the name not showing , Anet just needed to do a stealth system like this and you wouldn't even need the reveal debuff nor the endless CC chains. Heck, they could even make a stealth system that would work like, over 500 range you get completely invisible, 500 to 200 range you become translucent but untargetable and under 200 range you are translucent but targetable.

If it's not stealth it's a gazillion dodges, if it's not the gazillion dodges it's the perma blind, if it's not the perma blind it's the great condi cleanse. Let's stop the bs please.

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If Anet didn't think there was a need to have a way to halt the CC chains then they wouldn't have implemented the stability boon. You guys don't want CC immunity to break the CC chains? Fine, then maybe 1 stack of stability on all stunbreaks.

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45 minutes ago, Noenp.2041 said:

If Anet didn't think there was a need to have a way to halt the CC chains then they wouldn't have implemented the stability boon. You guys don't want CC immunity to break the CC chains? Fine, then maybe 1 stack of stability on all stunbreaks.

This is a better angle.

This is teasonable in some or most situations, as long as the stability time is appropriately short.

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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