The one principle to remember as a revenant

[VodCom.6924]

Hey folks!My name is Reegar and I've got one nice little tip for anyone who wishes to pick up a revenant. It's more of a high level thing, not something à la buzzfeed to get you started. Please note : this applies only to PvE.

So you want to play a revenant? Excellent choice. You may have heard about the legend system and how utilities and buildcraft works (or more to the point does NOT work) for a revenant. You may have also heard about some intensive debate on reddit and elsewhere over energy and how it is supposedly terrible and should be changed. This debate come from people who are used to the other classes and their limitations. Revenant is truly unique among the other classes because of its energy system.

The revenant is the only class in GW2 that uses a form of mana.

When you play a revenant, cooldowns are not a big concern except for a few weapon skills. What will limit you is the energy.

1. When you enter combat as a revenant, you will have 50 points of energy available to use.
2. You gain 5 points of energy every 10 seconds.
3. You can swap legends to reset your energy level back to 50 points every 10 seconds.
4. Conclusion : every 10 seconds, you get a 100 points of energy to spend. Every point unspent when you legend swap is wasted.

Basically when you play a revenant, instead of wondering "How can I tailor my build to overcome a specific situation ?", you should instead wonder "How can I tailor the use of my skills so that I can put the 100 energy points available to good use in 10 seconds?" Plan the use of your energy in advance. It's though to do especially when you are not completely familiar with the class. However, once you learn what legend does what, this is how you will get better.

Apply this principle and you will see a real improvement of your gameplay in any PvE situation.

There are many other tips I could give to a newbie revenant. However there are already plenty of guides out there that do just that. Instead I wanted to lay down this key principle I believe too few people understand.

[Lonami.2987]

I don't think energy is the problem, but "energy and cooldowns". Either pick one, but not both.

Having both only leads to using the same skills again and again :anguished: .

[Sylvyn.4750]

@VodCom.6924 said:

This debate come from people who are used to the other classes and their limitations.

Because those that have tried other classes see how freeing it is to not be stuck with both high energy requirements and cooldowns at the same time, especially applying to both weapon and utility skills.

[MaxwellM.2075]

@Sylvyn.4750 said:

@VodCom.6924 said:

This debate come from people who are used to the other classes and their limitations.

Because those that have tried other classes see how freeing it is to not be stuck with both high energy requirements and cooldowns at the same time, especially applying to both weapon and utility skills.

Seriously. Why not just leave the energy requirement on the utility skills and just let the weapons have a cool down like everyone else. It's really a handicap.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@MaxwellM.2075 said:

@Sylvyn.4750 said:

@VodCom.6924 said:

This debate come from people who are used to the other classes and their limitations.

Because those that have tried other classes see how freeing it is to not be stuck with both high energy requirements and cooldowns at the same time, especially applying to both weapon and utility skills.

Seriously. Why not just leave the energy requirement on the utility skills and just let the weapons have a cool down like everyone else. It's really a handicap.

It's not a handicap at all. Rev is fine, it just requires a different playstyle and patience on the part of the user. I also don't want to pay 60+ energy for Jade Winds or 40+ for most other utilities because they have to rebalance THE ENTIRE CLASS'S UTILITIES if they remove energy on weapons. This is a horrible idea. Rev has a solid spot in every single game mode it doesn't need some sort of sweeping change to it now. Personally I've never had issues with energy management and i've played pretty much every build revenant has to offer.

[Buran.3796]

^ Is pretty weak at roaming in the current landscape, and one of the bottom choices at PvE raids. But I agree in which that doesn't means that the cooldowns + energy system should be discarded.

[Hooglese.4860]

You gain 50 energy every 10 seconds. Just a typo I'm assuming.

[Mercurias.1826]

The whole "Burn Energy hard and swap legends" bit is a known playstyle, but it's not the only one. It works especially well with Assassin and Demon Stances, allowing you to burn through your energy quickly in exchange for higher DPS.

It isn't as useful for Dwarf, Dragon, and Centaur, however. Those three benefit from staying in one legend longer. The new Renegade spec will do somewhat the same, as its minion summons require substantial energy to use.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@Buran.3796 said:^ Is pretty weak at roaming in the current landscape, and one of the bottom choices at PvE raids. But I agree in which that doesn't means that the cooldowns + energy system should be discarded.

The being a "bottom choice" at pve raids is mostly a player perception and elitism thing. I've been raiding as a revenant since i started raiding before they fell out of meta and it gets it's job done, especially in the past 4+ months with the condi rev changes.

Just to further show that the perception isn't really the reality: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6zmvmo/just_some_raid_data_wwwgw2raidarcom/Condi rev does mid tier or better on almost every boss fight atm based on preliminary data with gw2 radar.

I don't really love solo roaming as rev (I do it tho), but I find it works really well in duo roaming

[narcx.3570]

@Buran.3796 said:^ Is pretty weak at roaming in the current landscape, and one of the bottom choices at PvE raids. But I agree in which that doesn't means that the cooldowns + energy system should be discarded.

That's a pretty antiquated statement given the current raid metascape... Condirev's are a lot more common these days, ever since all the Condirangers retired after the food nerf.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@VodCom.6924 said:The revenant is the only class in GW2 that uses a form of mana.

... what about thieves?

[Carighan.6758]

@Lonami.2987 said:I don't think energy is the problem, but "energy and cooldowns". Either pick one, but not both.

Having both only leads to using the same skills again and again :anguished: .

Now to be fair, VodCom is correct in that in a way this is comparable to mana in post-WoW RPGs (where it regenerates at a speed which is significant during combat). Although I think it's more comparable to a Rogue's energy, to stay with WoW comparisons.

And plenty mana or energy using classes also have cooldowns on top of everything else!

The problem is actually the other way around. Classes other than the Revenant are not double-restricted, when virtually all classes in all MMORPGs are, always having some resource requirement and a cooldown. And frankly in direct comparison, I find the "old" method more useful for this genre. The GW2-method leads to very spammy combat.

[Levisaurus.7186]

@Buran.3796 said:^ Is pretty weak at roaming in the current landscape, and one of the bottom choices at PvE raids. But I agree in which that doesn't means that the cooldowns + energy system should be discarded.

The PvE thing is about to change with PoF and we'll get nerfed again, people are underestimating how much of a buff 300 Ferocity, 20% Condition Damage from Kalla's Fervor is, especially as it's easy to keep up

[BrothersLionheart.5498]

I really enjoyed reading this. Thanks! :)

[kKagari.6804]

Revenants = playing starcraft. Gotcha.

Great post :)

[MithranArkanere.8957]

@Lonami.2987 said:I don't think energy is the problem, but "energy and cooldowns". Either pick one, but not both.

Having both only leads to using the same skills again and again :anguished: .

While is is true that having boths makes people use less many skills and instead focus on a few, I don't think can't have both. Tons of games have both. But in many games there's ways to regain energy, increase your energy pool, or reduce costs. That's what we are missing.The way this was done in GW1 was kind of annoying, as it forced you to pick different skills to keep your energy up. Doing it that way would be a mistake in GW2, but I do think revenant could use a form of energy recovery that it is always available regardless of weapons, legend and traits chosen, but that works better if certain conditions re fulfilled, so you can't recover as much energy if you blindly spam your skills.

For example, weapons skills could have additional effects that return energy when a condition is fulfilled. But won't do a thing if the condition to trigger the effect is not fulfilled. And the requirements to get the energy should reward skillful use of the skill. Take advantage of at least one of the things the skill can do, so the skill won't return energy or return much less

• Hammer - Drop the Hammer : Gain energy for each Interrupted enemy, bonus energy if you interrupt 5 enemies. Just hitting or knocking down enemies won't do. You'll have to learn to time it to interrupt.
• Staff - Renewing Wave : Gain energy for each ally that loses a condition, bonus energy if you heal conditions from 5 different allies.
• Sword
  • Precision Strike: Gain energy for each different enemy hit. Bonus energy if you git 3 different enemies.
  • Duelist Preparation: Gain energy for each different enemy you block. Bonus energy when using Shackling Wave if you immobilize 3 different enemies you have blocked.
• Mace - Echoing Eruption : Gain energy for each blast finisher combo you trigger. Bonus energy if you land all 3 blast finishers in combo fields.
• Axe - Temporal Rift: Gain energy for each enemy you pass through before hitting the target. Bonus energy if you hit 3 enemies.
• Spear - Rift Containment : Gain energy for each enemy trapped in the rift. Bonus energy if you trap 3 enemies.
• Shield - Crystal Hibernation : Gain energy for each attack you block, up to 5. Bonus energy for every 5 additional attacks you block, up to 20.
• Shortbow - Sevenshot : Gain energy for each projectile that hits the same target as another projectile from the skill. Bonus energy if all 7 arrows hit the same target.

This way you can't put energy recovery on automatic like in GW1, it won't break any build or force you to carry some legend, weapon or trait because all builds would come with some form energy recovery. And it can be balanced by changing which skills do the recovery and the requirements to obtain it.

[Joxer.6024]

"Mace - Echoing Eruption : Gain energy for each blast finisher combo you trigger. Bonus energy if you land all 3 blast finishers in combo fields"While as cool as that would be can you imagine how OP it would become? But great thoughts really! ;)

[Artemis Thuras.8795]

@Joxer.6024 said:"Mace - Echoing Eruption : Gain energy for each blast finisher combo you trigger. Bonus energy if you land all 3 blast finishers in combo fields"While as cool as that would be can you imagine how OP it would become? But great thoughts really! ;)

wouldn't be OP if it's like 1 energy, and an extra 2 if you land all 3 blasts in fields. Maybe if it was 3 energy, and an extra 6 if all 3 land would be OP.. but balance is all about the tuning.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

@Artemis Thuras.8795 said:

@Joxer.6024 said:"Mace - Echoing Eruption : Gain energy for each blast finisher combo you trigger. Bonus energy if you land all 3 blast finishers in combo fields"While as cool as that would be can you imagine how OP it would become? But great thoughts really! ;)

wouldn't be OP if it's like 1 energy, and an extra 2 if you land all 3 blasts in fields. Maybe if it was 3 energy, and an extra 6 if all 3 land would be OP.. but balance is all about the tuning.

Indeed. Focusing on the numbers when you are just coming up with the ideas is often a waste of time. Specially when no numbers were actually given on the idea. :lol:

We must keep in mind that you are still getting 100 energy every 10 seconds. So you can't have the weapon skills produce something like 50 extra energy. It'll have to be something more like 0-25 or so depending on how good you are at using the weapon.

[Sylvyn.4750]

@Carighan.6758 said:The problem is actually the other way around. Classes other than the Revenant are not double-restricted, when virtually all classes in all MMORPGs are, always having some resource requirement and a cooldown. And frankly in direct comparison, I find the "old" method more useful for this genre. The GW2-method leads to very spammy combat.

This may be very true, but at this point, is it easier to fix all other classes, or just fix Rev?

[narcx.3570]

Energy + Cooldowns are fine... If they got rid of energy and left cool downs, you could just spam every ability you have, swap legends/weapon and repeat. You would never have to choose between offense or defense and all game/counter play goes out the window for pure faceroll... You would barely even have to look at your screen--just focus on pressing, 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0-F1 as fast as you could over and over again, like a little kid in front of a piano keyboard sliding his finger back and forth.

On the flip side, they literally can't get rid of cooldowns on weapon skills without insanely increasing the cost of them. Like, how would it be fair to just cast UA 4 times in a row, swap legends and repeat? You'd literally be invulnerable... Or just spam sword 2 from range forever? Once again, invincible through dmg/kiting. Or just staff 5 back and forth across a team fight endlessly.

People are quick to complain because they don't want to admit that it's a l2p issue. Once you master legend swapping, energy becomes sort of a non-issue.

[Fractured.3928]

@narcx.3570 said:Energy + Cooldowns are fine... If they got rid of energy and left cool downs, you could just spam every ability you have, swap legends/weapon and repeat. You would never have to choose between offense or defense and all game/counter play goes out the window for pure faceroll... You would barely even have to look at your screen--just focus on pressing, 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0-F1 as fast as you could over and over again, like a little kid in front of a piano keyboard sliding his finger back and forth.

On the flip side, they literally can't get rid of cooldowns on weapon skills without insanely increasing the cost of them. Like, how would it be fair to just cast UA 4 times in a row, swap legends and repeat? You'd literally be invulnerable... Or just spam sword 2 from range forever? Once again, invincible through dmg/kiting. Or just staff 5 back and forth across a team fight endlessly.

People are quick to complain because they don't want to admit that it's a l2p issue. Once you master legend swapping, energy becomes sort of a non-issue.

You're kinda right. Don't understand why Spam sword 2 would be an issue. As if ranged didn't exist.

None the less, cooldowns need to be in place. And I like energy, but.... I just think utilities should cost energy, weapons shouldn't cost energy imo.

[Sylvyn.4750]

@narcx.3570 said:Energy + Cooldowns are fine... If they got rid of energy and left cool downs, you could just spam every ability you have, swap legends/weapon and repeat. You would never have to choose between offense or defense and all game/counter play goes out the window for pure faceroll...

You mean like every other class can do? I'd say that would be fine if some/most/all of the Rev's weapon and utility skills were OP, but they really aren't, especially with comparable cooldowns.

[The Revenant.4970]

I'm still waiting for my royalties checks.

[narcx.3570]

@Fractured.3928 said:You're kinda right. Don't understand why Spam sword 2 would be an issue. As if ranged didn't exist.None the less, cooldowns need to be in place. And I like energy, but.... I just think utilities should cost energy, weapons shouldn't cost energy imo.

Well it'd work sort of the opposite against ranged... You'd have them permanently chilled while riding them hard. Not to mention if you're condi, that'd be 6-8 stacks of traited torment every time you hit the button.

@Sylvyn.4750 said:

@narcx.3570 said:Energy + Cooldowns are fine... If they got rid of energy and left cool downs, you could just spam every ability you have, swap legends/weapon and repeat. You would never have to choose between offense or defense and all game/counter play goes out the window for pure faceroll...

You mean like every other class can do? I'd say that would be fine if some/most/all of the Rev's weapon and utility skills were OP, but they really aren't, especially with comparable cooldowns.

I agree that some of our overly nerfed abilities need an energy cost reduction to make them worth using again (Surge, Crystal Hib), but to say being able to unload all of our 10 utility skills and weapon skills on repeat wouldn't be OP is kind of crazy... Not to mention, what, just turning on Embrace the Darkness or Jalis Hammers and never turning them off? That wouldn't fly, they'd have to make our channeled skills only last a limited amount of time for balance, and then they'd actually be worse abilities for those that understand energy management and revenant gameplay.