Stealth counter

[RazieL.5684]

18 hours ago, Burial.1958 said:

Look here Burnfall i did made a actual Stealth video for you 😇 So now u have some actual footage and don't have to use some over 6 year old vids. xD

 

 

And then they say ele is brainless🤣

[senftube.6081]

1 minute ago, RazieL.5684 said:

And then they say ele is brainless🤣

Thief has a high skill cap. Would be the class so easy there should be alot more thief players around but still one of the least played. On a video it looks always easy expecially when it is played be experienced players.

[ilMasa.2546]

10 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:

changing traps from being thrown to be on your place is a very minor thing compared to 'rework stealth in a good way'.

i think if one were to rework the frequent stealth access one would have to come up with a different trigger for everything in shadow arts or rework our defensive traitline from the ground up, additionally we would need another option to access stealth attacks frequently for the way deadeye interacts with them or rework deadeye again as the initial one did not enhance stealth attacks.

either way unless a rework provides thief with more staying power, the ability to trade and recover from blows, they would still end up slippery and nothing about the complains would change.

Change initiative from passively self-replenishes over time to work like adrenaline for warriors when in-combat.
Replace skills initiative cost with NORMAL cds (halve cds when taget health gets below 30%)
Tweak shadow art to work properly with the changes

Edited August 2, 2023 by ilMasa.2546

[Morena.9312]

19 minutes ago, ilMasa.2546 said:

Change initiative from passively self-replenishes over time to work like adrenaline for warriors when in-combat.
Replace skills initiative cost with NORMAL cds (halve cds when taget health gets below 30%)
Tweak shadow art to work properly with the changes

So making literally warrior 2.0 out of it. 🫠  Makes no sense because Thief has middle armor and literally no fight on point possibilities. Ugh

[ilMasa.2546]

3 minutes ago, Morena.9312 said:

So making literally warrior 2.0 out of it. 🫠  Makes no sense because Thief has middle armor and literally no fight on point possibilities. Ugh

Uh no!?!  If you want to spam kitten you actually have to build it up. 

"litterally" lol

[Burial.1958]

Just now, ilMasa.2546 said:

Uh no!?!  If you want to spam kitten you actually have to build it up. 

"litterally" lol

Next person which don't understand that Ini is a global Cooldown system. When u can replenish that only infight...oh god....thief is not warrior and isn't designed for eating the dmg like warrior. What is this for a suggestion.....

[ilMasa.2546]

4 minutes ago, Burial.1958 said:

Next person which don't understand that Ini is a global Cooldown system. When u can replenish that only infight...oh god....thief is not warrior and isn't designed for eating the dmg like warrior. What is this for a suggestion.....

You guys are so dramatical...like really?!  "wE cAnNOT fAcE tAnK lIkE wARrIoRS"

Who said you have to face tank damage...jesus lol

Everytime you touch stealth, thieves players act like you u are taking away food from starving children in Africa. lmao

[senftube.6081]

1 hour ago, ilMasa.2546 said:

You guys are so dramatical...like really?!  "wE cAnNOT fAcE tAnK lIkE wARrIoRS"

Who said you have to face tank damage...jesus lol

Everytime you touch stealth, thieves players act like you u are taking away food from starving children in Africa. lmao

Yeah, it's not like people haven't been crying about stealth for 11 years. How many changes were there for stealth? Are a few and each time the thieves players had to adapt. I want to see you rag when we start crying about the warrior with his blocks & invuls or his kitten gunflame pew pew or Hammer CC spam fiesta.

You just find at every class something OP. Some try to improve themselves, others come to the forum to cry.

This thread is again cringe as kitten some peeps crying over everything. I mean look this Burnfall guy he even cried about scorpion wire lately. 🤡

At the end the thief class is the only class which has debuffs in wvw some even permanent at some places.

For me the class is fine as it is and im not even Main Thief player.

 

 

 

[ilMasa.2546]

45 minutes ago, senftube.6081 said:

Yeah, it's not like people haven't been crying about stealth for 11 years. How many changes were there for stealth? Are a few and each time the thieves players had to adapt. I want to see you rag when we start crying about the warrior with his blocks & invuls or his kitten gunflame pew pew or Hammer CC spam fiesta.

You just find at every class something OP. Some try to improve themselves, others come to the forum to cry.

 "there is always something OP somewhere" ...yea no kitten sherlock.

You can cry for every class, i dont care: if something is busted, is busted. And talking about it's normal.
People have been complaining about stealth for 11 years...it's not that complaints are randomly falling off the sky...must be a reason right?!

 

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

2 hours ago, Burial.1958 said:

Next person which don't understand that Ini is a global Cooldown system. When u can replenish that only infight...oh god....thief is not warrior and isn't designed for eating the dmg like warrior. What is this for a suggestion.....

That so called "global cooldown" is something that many other classes would kill for. Imagine Ranger spamming Maul 4 times in a row if it had the same system as teefs or imagine Ele spamming Obsidian Flesh constantly, oh wait Catalyst had it, guess what? Nerfed. Teef have mobility that allows for constant resests and that probably what hurt you with his suggestion, because you wouldn't be able to gank and you actually would need to commit to get enough resources to face opponents instead of getting freebies from get-go.

47 minutes ago, senftube.6081 said:

Yeah, it's not like people haven't been crying about stealth for 11 years. How many changes were there for stealth? Are a few and each time the thieves players had to adapt. I want to see you rag when we start crying about the warrior with his blocks & invuls or his kitten gunflame pew pew or Hammer CC spam fiesta.

You just find at every class something OP. Some try to improve themselves, others come to the forum to cry.

This thread is again cringe as kitten some peeps crying over everything. I mean look this Burnfall guy he even cried about scorpion wire lately. 🤡

At the end the thief class is the only class which has debuffs in wvw some even permanent at some places.

For me the class is fine as it is and im not even Main Thief player.

If people "cry" about stealth for 11 years that means there must be a kitten reason for it, maybe something like it being unbalanced kitten without proper counters? Have you though about that for a second even once in these 11 years? Probably not, since it seems like it benefits you a lot like other teefs or stealth lovers.
There's a lot more "debuffer" classes in the game but how many of them actually roam? None, because of teefs, congrats I guess?

[senftube.6081]

30 minutes ago, ilMasa.2546 said:

 "there is always something OP somewhere" ...yea no kitten sherlock.

You can cry for every class, i dont care: if something is busted, is busted. And talking about it's normal.
People have been complaining about stealth for 11 years...it's not that complaints are randomly falling off the sky...must be a reason right?!

 

Yes the thief is so busted, that's why 90% of the players are playing this class. Looks like you're not such a good Sherlock  🤡

 

31 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

That so called "global cooldown" is something that many other classes would kill for. Imagine Ranger spamming Maul 4 times in a row if it had the same system as teefs or imagine Ele spamming Obsidian Flesh constantly, oh wait Catalyst had it, guess what? Nerfed. Teef have mobility that allows for constant resests and that probably what hurt you with his suggestion, because you wouldn't be able to gank and you actually would need to commit to get enough resources to face opponents instead of getting freebies from get-go.

If people "cry" about stealth for 11 years that means there must be a kitten reason for it, maybe something like it being unbalanced kitten without proper counters? Have you though about that for a second even once in these 11 years? Probably not, since it seems like it benefits you a lot like other teefs or stealth lovers.
There's a lot more "debuffer" classes in the game but how many of them actually roam? None, because of teefs, congrats I guess?

Oh Demigod, your crying about thief is almost a meme. Yes of course a debuffer tries solo roaming.....and also clear that the Zergs today consists only of thieves.

 

[Handin.4032]

Any issues with stealth are about more than just thief. Stealth in this game is fairly unique compared to other MMO's I've played (for better or for worse). In gw2, stealth as a mechanic is generally high reward/low risk - and while other mechanics which are like this are on longer CDs (e.g. on ele, skills like Obsidian Flesh which has a 50 sec CD, or on mesmer IoL which has a 75 sec CD), stealth can be applied much more often. This is why all stealth QQ threads turn into thief QQ threads. In all other MMOs I've played with stealth, the stealth is generally a skill on a longer CD and allows for SUSTAINED stealth. Further, it generally comes with one or both of the following:

1) Stealth is dropped when hit

2) Stealth is dropped when an attack or any skill is used.

In gw2, neither applies. While you CAN be hit in stealth, unless the skill gives revealed, the stealth is not dropped and there is no marker of where the person is who is hit. Further, a player can stealth, and use a number of skills and as long as they do not do damage they remain in stealth. So a player can heal or do a revive skill, for instance, without ever dropping stealth, or a relatively bad thief can spam against a block and not drop stealth. These mean that stealth is generally high reward, low risk - whether being used to attack, disengage, maneuver, etc. If one wanted to "fix stealth", for instance, it could be made so that attacking and having your attack blocked or evaded would drop stealth, just as if you hit for damage. I'm not saying stealth needs to be changed (it may be slightly OP, but generally not overwhelming OP), but that the above reasons I think is why it's very easy to QQ about stealth, and thus thief. Thief because they can stealth often enough, can have rapid attacks and high mobility. Ultimately, anet will likely not change this - it is intrinsically tied to the game that stealth in gw2 is just a different type of mechanic than stealth in most games.

[ilMasa.2546]

1 hour ago, senftube.6081 said:

Yes the thief is so busted, that's why 90% of the players are playing this class. Looks like you're not such a good Sherlock  🤡

 

luckily you put he clown face next to your message,yourself. Nothing more to say 

You played yourself lol

[ilMasa.2546]

24 minutes ago, Handin.4032 said:

Any issues with stealth are about more than just thief. Stealth in this game is fairly unique compared to other MMO's I've played (for better or for worse). In gw2, stealth as a mechanic is generally high reward/low risk - and while other mechanics which are like this are on longer CDs (e.g. on ele, skills like Obsidian Flesh which has a 50 sec CD, or on mesmer IoL which has a 75 sec CD), stealth can be applied much more often. This is why all stealth QQ threads turn into thief QQ threads. In all other MMOs I've played with stealth, the stealth is generally a skill on a longer CD and allows for SUSTAINED stealth. Further, it generally comes with one or both of the following:

1) Stealth is dropped when hit

2) Stealth is dropped when an attack or any skill is used.

In gw2, neither applies. While you CAN be hit in stealth, unless the skill gives revealed, the stealth is not dropped and there is no marker of where the person is who is hit. Further, a player can stealth, and use a number of skills and as long as they do not do damage they remain in stealth. So a player can heal or do a revive skill, for instance, without ever dropping stealth, or a relatively bad thief can spam against a block and not drop stealth. These mean that stealth is generally high reward, low risk - whether being used to attack, disengage, maneuver, etc. If one wanted to "fix stealth", for instance, it could be made so that attacking and having your attack blocked or evaded would drop stealth, just as if you hit for damage. I'm not saying stealth needs to be changed (it may be slightly OP, but generally not overwhelming OP), but that the above reasons I think is why it's very easy to QQ about stealth, and thus thief. Thief because they can stealth often enough, can have rapid attacks and high mobility. Ultimately, anet will likely not change this - it is intrinsically tied to the game that stealth in gw2 is just a different type of mechanic than stealth in most games.

SEE why cant we have a discussion about stelath like Hadin: calm, rational, logical .

It is that simple. 
 

[senftube.6081]

17 minutes ago, ilMasa.2546 said:

luckily you put he clown face next to your message,yourself. Nothing more to say 

You played yourself lol

Oh got angry kid is butthurted because he failed in logic. When thief would be so busted as you try to show it here -> There would be alot more thief players but it is not the case, in fact it is one of least played in all modes. Because this class has a high skill cap and only the good ones will stick to it. 

 

4 minutes ago, ilMasa.2546 said:

SEE why cant we have a discussion about stelath like Hadin: calm, rational, logical .

It is that simple. 
 

Yes and because he is rational he also wrote this ->

Quote

 

. I'm not saying stealth needs to be changed (it may be slightly OP, but generally not overwhelming OP), but that the above reason........

Thief because they can stealth often enough, can have rapid attacks and high mobility. Ultimately, anet will likely not change this - it is intrinsically tied to the game that stealth in gw2 is just a different type of mechanic than stealth in most games.

Edited August 2, 2023 by senftube.6081

[ilMasa.2546]

35 minutes ago, senftube.6081 said:

Oh got angry kid is butthurted because he failed in logic. When thief would be so busted as you try to show it here -> There would be alot more thief players but it is not the case, in fact it is one of least played in all modes. Because this class has a high skill cap and only the good ones will stick to it. 

 

See again,you don't understand. The main problem is the stealth mechanic itself, and the reason why it's almost automatic to talk about the thief right after it's because it is the only class that has the greatest amount of accessibility to said mechanic. Then if  you add to said stealth mechanic: great mobility, great dps, great combat reset/engage, boons on demand when entering/exiting stealth...it doesn't take a master degree to understand that there is an issue .

Why Healing Signet was nerfed on warriors? Was it cos the signet itself was BROKEN?! No but the moment you add that signet with the mobility of a warrior, the tankiness of a warrior and so on .... you get a power house,like it was. Actually i remember playing a selfregen build back in those days and it was busted. Did everyone played a selfregen warrior? Nope. Did every warrior use Healing Signet? Yes because it was the strong option in the healing utilities.And the healing coefficent was adjusted.

Also 3/4 of the thieves mains are playing willbender atm cos it has the same mobility,way more burst damage,way more survability. So pls Stop the cap
Also if mirage players can pvp with 2 dodges instead of 3,thief mains can play with less stealth 😛

Edited August 2, 2023 by ilMasa.2546

[bq pd.2148]

5 hours ago, ilMasa.2546 said:

Change initiative from passively self-replenishes over time to work like adrenaline for warriors when in-combat.
Replace skills initiative cost with NORMAL cds (halve cds when taget health gets below 30%)
Tweak shadow art to work properly with the changes

i do not quite understand the suggestion, if ini cost is replaced with cooldowns yet you gain ini when in combat like warrior gains adrenaline, what do you do with that initiative?

Edited August 2, 2023 by bq pd.2148

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

If people "cry" about stealth for 11 years that means there must be a kitten reason for it, maybe something like it being unbalanced kitten without proper counters? 

I feel like if you cry about stealth for 11 years, the core mechanic doesn't get changed, and the game remains not inundated with thief players, there isn't actually a problem with stealth. 

It may be a frustrating mechanic for some players to interact with, but those players knew (or should have known) how stealth functioned upon starting the game.  Consider also:

• all but three classes have revealed access,
• WvW is full of mechanics that disable stealth that anyone can carry or utilize
• not having access to stealth disables both the thief's damage and their mitigation because stealth is intertwined with their class identity and they are expected to use it
• none of the people consistently angry about stealth offer solutions that that would leave thief in a playable state, show some kind of understanding about how the thief class generally works, or grasp/admit that thief as a class is difficult to get results with. If you are unwilling to do that, your suggestions will continue to be ignored, because Arenanet wants people to play thief. They made the class. I've seen everything proposed from just "Remove the black powder field" to "Give thief skill cooldowns" without any consideration about how damage mitigation or skill damage/functionality would need to change to work in this proposed scenario. The longer you do that, the longer you will be mad when some joker who's been playing thief for years dances on you then leaves because you refuse to learn how it works.

It's fine if you don't like the mechanic, but that's all it is. If it were broken or unhealthy you would be getting jumped far more often by thieves than you currently are (remember what happened with the sunspot glitch?). If you want to remove the mechanic entirely, you should have more understanding of thief (beyond bitter resentment, at least) to suggest changes that allow the people who play that class to continue to play. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

26 minutes ago, ilMasa.2546 said:

 Did everyone played a selfregen warrior? Nope. Did every warrior use Healing Signet? Yes because it was the strong option in the healing utilities.And the healing coefficent was adjusted.

And now nobody uses it, despite the overarching reason it got nerfed being present in bladesworn. 

Do you see what people against your arguments are trying to avoid? 

[ilMasa.2546]

1 minute ago, bq pd.2148 said:

i do not quite understand the suggestion, if ini cost is replaced with cooldowns yet you gain ini when in combat like warrior, what do you do with that initiative?

So my idea was that instead of having initiative passively self-replenishes over time,when you enter in combat you have to build up initiative with attacks (just like any warriors have to attack to build up adrenaline).Think about Deadeyes's Mark: it was changed from "building damage over time" to generate malice when you hit or critically hit your target.

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 minutes ago, ilMasa.2546 said:

So my idea was that instead of having initiative passively self-replenishes over time,when you enter in combat you have to build up initiative with attacks (just like any warriors have to attack to build up adrenaline).Think about Deadeyes's Mark: it was changed from "building damage over time" to generate malice when you hit or critically hit your target.

 

How would a thief build up initiative with attacks? Autoing? All their skills cost initiative to use.

They also need to use that resource to avoid you, so they'd be locked to autoing and evades, especially if someone targeted them from far away. 

This is worse than warrior adrenaline. Why would anyone want that?

Edited August 2, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[ilMasa.2546]

Just now, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

And now nobody uses it, despite the overarching reason it got nerfed being present in bladesworn. 

Do you see what people against your arguments are trying to avoid? 

Yea ofc got nerfed to the ground so the majority switched to something else but im talking way back pre expansions. Nowdays defiance stance is way better in any situation.

[ilMasa.2546]

1 minute ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

How would a thief build up initiative with attacks? Autoing? All their skills cost initiative to use.

They also need to use that resource to avoid you, so they'd be locked to autoing and evades, especially if someone targeted them from far away. 

This is worse than warrior adrenaline. Why would anyone want that?

 

6 hours ago, ilMasa.2546 said:

Change initiative from passively self-replenishes over time to work like adrenaline for warriors when in-combat.
Replace skills initiative cost with NORMAL cds (halve cds when taget health gets below 30%)
Tweak shadow art to work properly with the changes

 

[bq pd.2148]

3 minutes ago, ilMasa.2546 said:

So my idea was that instead of having initiative passively self-replenishes over time,when you enter in combat you have to build up initiative with attacks (just like any warriors have to attack to build up adrenaline).Think about Deadeyes's Mark: it was changed from "building damage over time" to generate malice when you hit or critically hit your target.

 

so essentially i have cooldowns on my skills and i get initiative for attacking people and with that initiative i can then bypass existing cooldowns?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Quote

Change initiative from passively self-replenishes over time to work like adrenaline for warriors when in-combat.
Replace skills initiative cost with NORMAL cds (halve cds when taget health gets below 30%)
Tweak shadow art to work properly with the changes

If skills that use initiative now have cooldowns, what is the point of initiative? What does this resource grant access to? 

Cause I can't use it out of combat, but in combat I have CDs that get halved if I...look at? Hit? A target below 30%. 

Explain what you mean by "Tweak Shadow Arts"?

Edited August 2, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261