HeliosMagi.9867 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 It seems every thread in this forums is full of people complaining about the new Rune and Relic system and how it's power creep and vertical progression and how it takes away value from Legendary Runes. But for some reason the people that are actually excited about the new system like myself have by curiously quiet. I for one am actually excited for the new possibilities the new Relic system brings, there are a ton of runes with really cool or powerful Lv6 effects that see little to no use in meta builds because they're attached to rune with mediocre stats. For example I love using Runes of Speed on my open-world Daredevil, but at the same time using them costs me a ton of damage compared to using Scholar runes. With the new system I'll be able to have the stats of Scholar runes with the boosted Swiftness of Speed runes. TL;DR Please stop being so toxic about your current builds getting a little weaker and start being excited about the new, better builds you'll be getting. 25 9 14 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandal.5621 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 The new relic system is great. I'm looking forward to trying out all the cool rune capstones that previously were ignored just because the stats from their runes were bad. 10 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 If you read the main thread, there are plenty of people liking it. Problem is, people keep creating new ones and its skewing the bias There's definite issues for them to resolve and I'm not a big fan of it personally, but there's plenty of people who like it 3 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo.3725 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 1 minute ago, HeliosMagi.9867 said: It seems every thread in this forums is full of people complaining about the new Rune and Relic system and how it's power creep and vertical progression and how it takes away value from Legendary Runes. But for some reason the people that are actually excited about the new system like myself have by curiously quiet. I for one am actually excited for the new possibilities the new Relic system brings, there are a ton of runes with really cool or powerful Lv6 effects that see little to no use in meta builds because they're attached to rune with mediocre stats. For example I love using Runes of Speed on my open-world Daredevil, but at the same time using them costs me a ton of damage compared to using Scholar runes. With the new system I'll be able to have the stats of Scholar runes with the boosted Swiftness of Speed runes. TL;DR Please stop being so toxic about your current builds getting a little weaker and start being excited about the new, better builds you'll be getting. I don't think the issue is the change itself but more so how it is being implemented. I.E. the same thing could have been done if they wanted to say the head rune slot provides the combat boost but the other 5 provide the stat bonuses. with a 5/5 bonus for the 6th stat. Things like this allow more flexibility without impacting current equipment. Or even making it an override feature where if the relic is equipped the combat bonus is that bonus instead of the rune bonus. The system itself actually sounds interesting but the aspect of reducing overall output by moving a function from existing gear to a net new gear without significant gain seems worthless and honestly dull. If you want me to reinvest time and energy into something there should be a gain rather than a break-even target. You see the potential for some of the runes to have an interesting impact on existing builds but until we know more about the rune changes I don't even want to factor that uncertainty into my opinion of this system as the implementation alone has me worried. Modular design is a much more appealing aspect to me in my personal and professional life. I'm convinced by current communication from ANET, that the change itself, was short-sighted in what it impacts and shallow design to what it could bring to the table, and as such I expect just as much from it. 6 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 I think splitting out the 'bonus effect' from the stat bonuses will be a nice change. That always felt like a trade-off, especially since I'm the kind of person who would choose runes to use just because I like the bonus effect, but I'd still be fully aware the stats weren't ideal for the character. Now maybe I'll be able to have both. Other than that it doesn't seem like that much of a big deal to me. Maybe it helps that I also play Elder Scrolls Online where the equivalent effects (both stat boosts and bonus effects) come from the equipment itself so if you want to change them you have to get a whole new set of armour and weapons and sets are updated or added all the time so I'm used to that. (Although just like in GW2 I have a bad habit of ignoring those changes and continuing to use the same stuff for years until I decide I feel like a change.) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caitmonster.9036 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 As long as we don't wind up stuck in the Scholar Relic meta, I'll call it a success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, HeliosMagi.9867 said: It seems every thread in this forums is full of people complaining about the new Rune and Relic system and how it's power creep and vertical progression and how it takes away value from Legendary Runes. But for some reason the people that are actually excited about the new system like myself have by curiously quiet. I for one am actually excited for the new possibilities the new Relic system brings, there are a ton of runes with really cool or powerful Lv6 effects that see little to no use in meta builds because they're attached to rune with mediocre stats. For example I love using Runes of Speed on my open-world Daredevil, but at the same time using them costs me a ton of damage compared to using Scholar runes. With the new system I'll be able to have the stats of Scholar runes with the boosted Swiftness of Speed runes. TL;DR Please stop being so toxic about your current builds getting a little weaker and start being excited about the new, better builds you'll be getting. I think that you will find that many of those expressing dismay are not upset with the concept of the relic system but rather with the idea of having something they paid for removed so that ANet could pad the expansion's content by selling it back to them. Edited July 21, 2023 by Ashen.2907 Brevity. 12 7 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezuzel.4987 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 44 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said: I think that you will find that many of those expressing dismay are not upset with the concept of the relic system but rather with the idea of having something they paid for removed so that ANet could pad the expansion's content by selling it back to them. This. I like the idea that we can have more modular and customizable builds with relics. I'm looking forward to playing with it. But I'm disappointed that Anet is implementing this idea by taking away what I already have and selling it back to me. A big reason I play this MMO, as opposed to any other MMO, is because of the foundation of horizontal progression. Cracking that foundation is a big problem for me and many others. 9 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idpersona.3810 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said: I think that you will find that many of those expressing dismay are not upset with the concept of the relic system but rather with the idea of having something they paid for removed so that ANet could pad the expansion's content by selling it back to them. 31 minutes ago, mezuzel.4987 said: This. I like the idea that we can have more modular and customizable builds with relics. I'm looking forward to playing with it. But I'm disappointed that Anet is implementing this idea by taking away what I already have and selling it back to me. A big reason I play this MMO, as opposed to any other MMO, is because of the foundation of horizontal progression. Cracking that foundation is a big problem for me and many others. Same. The system looks good (and I'm personally looking forward to it). It's the implementation that people are upset with. That distinction is worth acknowledging. 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorne.9857 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 4 hours ago, HeliosMagi.9867 said: It seems every thread in this forums is full of people complaining about the new Rune and Relic system and how it's power creep and vertical progression and how it takes away value from Legendary Runes. But for some reason the people that are actually excited about the new system like myself have by curiously quiet. I for one am actually excited for the new possibilities the new Relic system brings, there are a ton of runes with really cool or powerful Lv6 effects that see little to no use in meta builds because they're attached to rune with mediocre stats. For example I love using Runes of Speed on my open-world Daredevil, but at the same time using them costs me a ton of damage compared to using Scholar runes. With the new system I'll be able to have the stats of Scholar runes with the boosted Swiftness of Speed runes. TL;DR Please stop being so toxic about your current builds getting a little weaker and start being excited about the new, better builds you'll be getting. Look, I actually really like the new Rune and Relic system. My only concern is that it will strip Legendary Rune holders of their QoL and value for between 5 and 18 months until they implement Legendary Relics in 2024 to restore the damage done. If not for that, I'd be singing its praises everywhere. It's a fantastic idea and the implementation is actually pretty decent. Plus, from what I can gather with the German and French announcements, the choice chest should cover most people's needs in the interim anyway (one choice chest per 60+ with 3 core relics of your choosing is crazy good). 9 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunbury.8472 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 4 hours ago, Vandal.5621 said: The new relic system is great. I'm looking forward to trying out all the cool rune capstones that previously were ignored just because the stats from their runes were bad. there are only 40 core relics & a lot more than 40 runes... a lot more. so expect a lot of runes to be deleted 6 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenKeriti.5176 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 4 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said: I think that you will find that many of those expressing dismay are not upset with the concept of the relic system but rather with the idea of having something they paid for removed so that ANet could pad the expansion's content by selling it back to them. No one is forcimg ANet to take away somethimg that plauers already paid for in order to add relics as a form of expanded build customization....they chose to do so. It costs over $70 worth of gold to acquire a full set of legendary runes, ANet chose to reduce the value received for that cost in order to sell the sixth tier function back to people who already paid for it. I might have some concerns about balancing relics/runes in this new system, but the basic idea is fine. Build craft is a good chunk of my play time. This might add to that. Remember that ANet is not adding the relic system to add to our theorycrafting and the like. If they were they would be implemented relics without the cost. This is a means of padding content and selling something. Any benefit to the player is secondary to those goals. 3 hours ago, mezuzel.4987 said: I like the idea that we can have more modular and customizable builds with relics. I'm looking forward to playing with it. But I'm disappointed that Anet is implementing this idea by taking away what I already have and selling it back to me. A big reason I play this MMO, as opposed to any other MMO, is because of the foundation of horizontal progression. Cracking that foundation is a big problem for me and many others. These. These are why I'm frustrated. These guys summarized it. To reiterate for the 40th time, and I wish I could put this in size 48 font: THE CONCEPT IS COOL. THE EXECUTION IS NOT. I love the concept, and it'll definitely add some more spice to the balancing game that is definitely going to continue balancing around the .01% who benchmark on SnowCrows, lmao. 10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandal.5621 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Bunbury.8472 said: there are only 40 core relics & a lot more than 40 runes... a lot more. so expect a lot of runes to be deleted There will be 52 relics on release (with more after that). With just under 100 superior runes, that's over half. A lot of runes do very similar things (e.g. Water and Nature's Bounty) or very boring things, and I expect those to be the ones that are cut. Some examples, that I think are probably not worth a relic: Brawler, Spellbreaker, Mercy, Herald, Wurm, Exuberance, Renegade, and Divinity (honestly, I could see them cutting Scholar entirely). We really don't need relic slots being taken up by boring flat damage buffs. Edited July 21, 2023 by Vandal.5621 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serephen.3420 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) Could've done without this bait and switch method for the relic system. Regretting my preorder already... Like others have said, great idea, horrible execution. Edited July 21, 2023 by Serephen.3420 9 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 I agree with op, it's weird to see so many ppls saying they like the versatility and customization that comes with the new system but they resent that they have to work/pay again for something they already have. It's not something you already have! It's a new system that adds versatility and customization! You said it right there in the first bit! ; p The other big complaint about how it affects leggy runes just smacks of entitlement. I have my leggy runes and I'll miss their ease of use between now and when leggy relics are released, but I don't feel they entitle me to any progress towards that new legendary item. Now they've announced they're giving that progress away I'll take it, but it's not compensation, it's something for nothing . . . 1 5 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazrul.3086 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 I think this whole issue is being overblown, to be honest. Sure, I agree that the legendary relic should be up on launch and that people who've crafted all legendary runes should get it for free, but other than that I think the outrage regarding the sixt effect bring stripped from the runes is grossly exaggerated. It's not like we'll need to equip six relics to gain the new effect, it's just one relic. And based on how easy or hard they will be to obtain, getting them on multiple characters and for multiple builds until we get the legendary relic might not be an issue at all. I don't have the legendary runes yet, but I'll still craft them as planned because they'll still offer strong stat bonuses that'll be swappable. So to me legendary runes will still be worth the effort and a huge QoL improvement, plus it'll be easier to craft the legendary relic as well. I'll repeat myself though: I wholeheartedly agree that those who crafted all legendary runes should get the legendary relic for free when it launches, and those who crafted one or more but not all should gain significant progress towards the relic. I also think the legendary relic should be available on SotO launch, but that's clearly not happening. 4 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronospere.8143 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 I think people are forgetting that there will be 12 new relic effects. In my opinion that doesnt make it equal to the effects the entire rune system has, only partial. I understand the frustration. I also think people are unreasonable angry about it. But its like that with every expansion. You hear noone complain about jadebots, research notes and strike missions anymore. 3 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiamat.8254 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 No you're not. One of the best QoL changes we've had in the game since HoT gliding. I can't wait! And the legendary relics confirmed so I'm very happy. 6 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeftheWicked.3076 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cronospere.8143 said: I think people are forgetting that there will be 12 new relic effects. In my opinion that doesnt make it equal to the effects the entire rune system has, only partial. I understand the frustration. I also think people are unreasonable angry about it. But its like that with every expansion. You hear noone complain about jadebots, research notes and strike missions anymore. Do not downplay the issue here. The uproar is about breach of trust, not a systems change. They're taking what players already earned, flushing it down the toilet and forcing players to grind for it again. If not putting some of the already earned features behind a new paywall (likely lege relic crafting will be for SotO owners only) If they did this to lege runes owners, who's to say it won't happen on other fronts? Now imagine players leaving the game instead of playing it, because they don't trust their progression won't be yoinked away at any moment because it sure as hell happened with runes! Edited July 21, 2023 by ZeftheWicked.3076 7 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazrul.3086 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 1 minute ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said: Do not downplay the issue here. They're not downplaying it, you're overblowing it. They're not deleting legendary runes, they'll still be there as powerful stat boosts you'll be able to swap at will. And once you get the legendary relic you'll have far more freedom in customizing your builds than you ever had with the extra effect on the runes. All they need to do is give people who crafted all legendary runes the legendary relic for free once it is implemented, and give significant progress towards it to people who crafted 1-5 runes. 5 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenrir.1346 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 I really like the idea honestly and looking forward to it. But to be honest I am I little sceptical what the compensation is going to be for the legies I already have. That basically have this exact function and a lot of time and gold went into. What I realy don’t like is that we have to wait a undetermined amount of time for the legy relic. Since it affects current functionality. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega.6801 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) The system, i.e. splitting stats from the set bonus, isn't the issue, that's fine. It's how it's being handled that causes the backlash. Edited July 21, 2023 by Omega.6801 7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parasite.5389 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) no, most players who don't have an axe to grind about something are pretty excited for Relics; it's honestly a great way to remove a huge amount of Bloat from the current Rune market and make popular builds more accessable; when you consider that there are 99 runes in the game, and most stat allocations are triplicated, we can remove a huge amount of runes that just don't do anything new, and at the same time open up more diversity in builds because you're not limited to picking specific stats just for that 6th tier bonus as a little bit of theorycrafting; I'm hoping they keep the 6th tier functionality of the Rune of Scavenging as a Relic, and keep Necromancer runes with the +125 Condi damage at the 6th stat, because i run a huge amount of vitality on my Specter, so Scavenging runes as they ar now give me an extra 145 Condi damage, if that effect is transfered to a relic, i can switch out for Necromancer runes and get an extra +125 on top of that Edited July 21, 2023 by Parasite.5389 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulknight.9620 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Like many have stated here, its not that people hate the system itself. Most people like the idea and like relic system (i myself find it quite interesting). The thing people are having problems with right now is the fact that anet takes away a function of legendary runes and does not want to provide a fair compensation to people that have a full set of legendary runes. Anet could easily solve the problem by giving everyone that has 6-7 legendary runes a legendary relic day 1 of the expansion. The problem would be solved and people woul cheerfully greet the relic system. 7 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuks.8241 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 4 hours ago, Chronardis.4028 said: All they need to do is give people who crafted all legendary runes the legendary relic for free once it is implemented, and give significant progress towards it to people who crafted 1-5 runes. I dont think thats fair. Unless the material requirements for lege runes get reduced so that overall material sink of 6 (or 7) runes before change equals 6 (or 7) + relic. I would prefer the idea of removing the need for 7th rune in exchange for relic. Or a middle ground kind of compensation. Otherwise I love the change. I see a lot of fun combinations opening up. In high end pve the impact will be small because theres usually 1 bis option anyway. But everywhere else we will be able to incorporate the fun and class specific bonuses into more builds. It will also open up some design space for future. Personally I see the need for reaquiring new gear pieces (around 35 for me) as non factor. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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