Am I the only one that actually likes the new Relic system?

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

I actually like the relic system, since it provides more Build Freedom.

What I simply did not like was ArenaNet totally fogetting about legendary runes (You know you did Anet) And I simply won't be using Relics beyond the ones we get for free, untill the (WAY WAY too late) release of Legendary Relics.

Read on the blog post, If they would have considered the function loss of Legendary Runes from the start, there would be a Legendary Relic ON RELEASE and not "a few quartily releases later" which is the tell tale sign they f-ed up.

[Demalii.9435]

I DO LIKE: This new relic system, will make more possibilities and appears to be a healthy change.
I DO NOT LIKE: 15+ characters many with extra build/equip tabs - We have to spend time now just to repair what we had.
I DO NOT LIKE: I have 6 Legendary Runes - I see the joke, but we are the punchline.
I HOPE: We are not forced to revisit PvE content for 3 months just to move forward.
I WOULD HAVE EXPECTED: Having 6 Legendary Runes - I expected the runes to be changed, and my relic slot on EACH build slotted with the same or similar bonus from the runes.

[Ultramex.1506]

Like many have said, i just want to to know why they didn't be crystal clear in the announcement, it took an (predictably) uproar for 1 person to reply in a sea of replies/questions. A rather weak attempt at softening the blow.

Yes you eventually make a news post about it but nobody is gonna wait for 1 month for reassurance. And the legendary relic won't be at launch either, maybe Anet is balancing the cost and time it take to make 1.

[rotten.9753]

1 hour ago, Demalii.9435 said:

I DO LIKE: This new relic system, will make more possibilities and appears to be a healthy change.
I DO NOT LIKE: 15+ characters many with extra build/equip tabs - We have to spend time now just to repair what we had.
I DO NOT LIKE: I have 6 Legendary Runes - I see the joke, but we are the punchline.
I HOPE: We are not forced to revisit PvE content for 3 months just to move forward.
I WOULD HAVE EXPECTED: Having 6 Legendary Runes - I expected the runes to be changed, and my relic slot on EACH build slotted with the same or similar bonus from the runes.

This 1000x times. The fact that we lose some power when we have all the legendaries and are forced to farm them again, only to have to farm for a legendary relic a year later, is what's causing most of the backlash. It's clear as day that ANet hasn't really thought this through.

Getting a single relic from a very limited set of 3 when you can have up to 8 builds is another punch in the gut.

Edited July 27, 2023 by rotten.9753

[pengefinchess.8452]

24 minutes ago, rotten.9753 said:

This 1000x times. The fact that we lose some power when we have all the legendaries and are forced to farm them again, 

How are u being forced to “farm them again”  ?

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by pengefinchess.8452

[rotten.9753]

3 hours ago, pengefinchess.8452 said:

How are u being forced to “farm them again”  ?

 

You lose 6th bonus on all 8 builds you can have and you receive a single three relics from a limited set which may not even be usable for any of your builds. Thus, you have to farm up to 8 new relics on each of your character.

Edited July 27, 2023 by rotten.9753

[pengefinchess.8452]

Hmm but surely if u got leggy runes ull do the leggy relic? I know not at launch but …;)

[Ashantara.8731]

On 7/21/2023 at 1:03 AM, HeliosMagi.9867 said:

[...] and how it takes away value from Legendary Runes. But for some reason the people that are actually excited about the new system like myself have been curiously quiet. I for one am actually excited for the new possibilities the new Relic system brings [...]

I have voiced several times that I am excited for it, too, and that my only complaint is the waste of resources on exotic Relics until the legendary one finally gets released, which is quite an incovenience, to say the least.

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, pengefinchess.8452 said:

Hmm but surely if u got leggy runes ull do the leggy relic? I know not at launch but …;)

So first you didn't understand how we're forced to farm them again, but now it's still ok because... There will be leggy runes that someone "surely will get anyways" (hence... "farm them again") even if those leggy runes won't even be available at launch? I don't understand what point you're trying to make here. What did you even plan to write after that "but..."? 😅 Definitely please finish that sentence because it's unclear.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[pengefinchess.8452]

“surely will get anyways" (hence... "farm them again")?? this isnt even a quote of wat i said., its kindof unclear…
Were not really being forced to do anything srry if u dont understand but… 😉

Edited July 27, 2023 by pengefinchess.8452

[Astralporing.1957]

19 hours ago, pengefinchess.8452 said:

Hmm but surely if u got leggy runes ull do the leggy relic? I know not at launch but …;)

Let me put it that way - i've already considered legendary runes only barely worth their cost (and i wasn't all that sure about this either). After the change their value will plummet in my eyes even more, and drop way below their current cost level.

So, the answer to your question is: If i were to consider crafting legendary runes now, i wouldn't do that unless i'd have way too much gold to know what to spend it for. Which almost certainly won't be a case for me for long, long years.

Basically, gold and materials don't magically fall from heaven just because people wish for them, so don't ask this kind of questions unless you are willing to donate the resources for that cause yourself.

[Sobx.1758]

12 hours ago, pengefinchess.8452 said:

“surely will get anyways" (hence... "farm them again")?? this isnt even a quote of wat i said., its kindof unclear…
Were not really being forced to do anything srry if u dont understand but… 😉

If that's not what you've said then what was the point of you typing this: "but surely if u got leggy runes ull do the leggy relic" ? Because it sure seems like the point is the same.

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 7/20/2023 at 7:03 PM, HeliosMagi.9867 said:

It seems every thread in this forums is full of people complaining about the new Rune and Relic system and how it's power creep and vertical progression and how it takes away value from Legendary Runes. But for some reason the people that are actually excited about the new system like myself have by curiously quiet. I for one am actually excited for the new possibilities the new Relic system brings, there are a ton of runes with really cool or powerful Lv6 effects that see little to no use in meta builds because they're attached to rune with mediocre stats. For example I love using Runes of Speed on my open-world Daredevil, but at the same time using them costs me a ton of damage compared to using Scholar runes. With the new system I'll be able to have the stats of Scholar runes with the boosted Swiftness of Speed runes.

TL;DR Please stop being so toxic about your current builds getting a little weaker and start being excited about the new, better builds you'll be getting.

Let me spin this a second for consideration. Where have we seen that the 6th trait on Runes of Speed even make the cut? Remember they said they are going for 40 core runes, that's out of the 100 we have now. Again, this could be lack of information being shared. More info would create less questions and more people being ready to having all of their builds losing features on day one. I see the potential in the idea, but right now its looking more like a net lose, and lot of redo work to be done. Add to that if you are a WvW player and its even more impact since you may be left with questionable builds before you can go back out to your normal game mode. So usually being a half full poster, this has me more as a half empty view point personally.

[Doggie.3184]

I like the idea but I hate the fact that it's something separated from Legendary Runes~ it's generally not a good idea to remove a feature to sell back to players. But even if I had to spend gold to make Legendary Relic I don't even get that option till a year from now which is ultra lame and a lot of the temp Relics we're forced to use till then will be soul/account bound~ wasting more gold and time. I'm sure the Leggy Relic will also require something new to make it harder to get aside from just spending gold.

To me it feels like they're about to release an unfinished feature: No leggy relic + lots of relics will be excluded till future. I rather just wait and have the finished feature released all at same time. Maybe switch more focus on bug fixes and class balance (especially with the nuke dropped on Deadeye) to help prepare for the new weapons for naow and save the whole relic system for next year.. 👀

[Asum.4960]

For me it has nothing to do with the system itself, as many others already stated in the thread. 

Part of the contract with acquiring Legendary Gear in GW2 was the assurance of

1) Best in Slot Gear forever, no gear more powerful will ever be added, or should that be the extremely unlikely case again, Legendaries would be updated to meet them in power.

2) Any new additions, such as new stat types for Armor&Accessories or new Rune/Sigil effects, would be added to the respective Legendary system immediately on launch of those additions, free of charge. 

For those features, along with their inherent swap on the fly convenience, players have paid exorbitant prices in the thousands of gold - more than most would likely ever spent on those systems in a lifetime of play otherwise. Not only do 6 Legendary Runes cost more than buying every single Rune in the game, 6 times, multiple times over - most players at the point of making Legendary Runes probably already also have had all their normal Runes setup, likely even with the higher priority Legendary Armor too, which already allows free swapping of even Exotic Runes. 

So really what Runes provided is some minor convenience in swapping without keeping cheap Exotics Runes around and primarily a future promise, of getting any new additions without any hassle. Then of course End of Dragons marked the first Expansion to ship without any additional Runes whatsoever, not even Espec themed Runes like HoT and PoF set the precedent for, and now this Expansion establishes that there will never be worthwhile additions to the system again - with those, present and future, being moved over into a different, new system. 

 

To cut out a part of that already paid for and earned Rune feature and leave players hanging for an undeterminate amount of time without suitable replacement, during which those players then have to engage with and pay for this new non Legendary system, the Legendary replacement for which then is only granted "significant progress" towards eventually, but then ultimately invalidates all that was invested into the system in the interim, is a terrible way of handling that transition at every point. 

All of that severely violates the contract and investment of Legendary gear, the rules and value ArenaNet established for it, and the trust players have put into them in making those substantial investments. 

A large, and for some the very, point of them is to be a secure investment into the future of an account. To skip the, and any future, carrot on a stick for the respective system - for a massive premium price. 

 

No matter how good the system, taking that away -  breaking that trust and contract, and selling players a dangling carrot back, is frankly quite insulting.

ArenaNet built their reputation and audience to a large part on not doing exactly things like that. 

 

/E:

I also don't buy the "Legendary Relic's just aren't ready yet" argument some have made in their defense for this bad choice of transition. It's just a new Stat selectable Accessory slot, except with Rune effects. Both Rune and Accessory systems already being supported by Legendary functionality before. It is possible that the implementation isn't fully done yet ofc, but if that's the case, then it is so because it purposefully wasn't prioritised. 

This is just one more thing that doesn't feel designed by actual Game Designers, who's job it is to make a fun and compelling game, systems and gameplay for their players - but yet more design by Data Analysts (+Behavioral Psychologists), who's function is to increase nothing but player retention (and with that MTX exposure). 

From that point of view it does make sense to change this system in this way, take things away from players, make them regrind that functionality, make then grind for new Expansion Relics - and then when Data shows player retention dropping with those systems/players being done with that, then release Legendary Relics to hook them back in, as yet more stuff to grind for, which then conveniently invalidates all the work that came before that for the regular Relics. 

That's a long time to engage players, while the Gemstore flashes with updates, over just giving players value for and respecting their investment into Legendary Runes, with Legendary Relic's Day 1. 

Personally I think it's an incredible shame that intuitive fun and good, player friendly design isn't the focus of (AAA) game development anymore, but rather just retention by data driven development, which has become (live service) industry standard. Not that ArenaNet having shifted to this development style is in any shape or form new or surprising (people like John Hopson went through NCSoft and Anet, just like with Blizzard, Bungie, Microsoft and co., implementing these joy sucking "Behavioral Game Design" methods years ago iirc (/E2: turns out  he's literally Head of Analytics at ArenaNet right now, and has been for the past ~4 years or so, it seems) - invalidating past player investment to this degree is a dangerous new precedent though indeed.

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Asum.4960

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Think it is a missed opportunity to extended jeweler to 500. Core relics would have been craftable at 400, expac craftable at 450, legendary require 500.

[Alsandar.7420]

I really like that the new relics get visual effects and that there will be new expansion themed relics for each expansion. 
 

Sucks for my legendary runes, but I’ll get around to crafting the legendary relic

[Duglaive.5236]

27 minutes ago, Alsandar.7420 said:

I really like that the new relics get visual effects 

My hatred of the over saturation of "visual effects" in this game must have caused temporary blindness, and I missed this in whatever notes they were included.

Another reason to be less than happy with the new relics  

[Ezrael.6859]

I love it, I'm massively looking forward to the changes to runes and the relic system.

 

There are so many different combinations I want to try out for different builds, it's going to unlock so much more potential to get the benefits of runes and the benefits of certain bonuses that were previously only available on a rune set that totally didn't match your build.

 

This also makes so much development sense as before there were some huge disparities between the kinds of bonuses that existed for Power vs Condition damage for example, in order to provide all of that equally they would have had to have made so many additional rune sets.

This new system is so much better, they can spend dev time far more productively just making special Relic effects that everyone can pair with the plethora of existing Rune stat combinations. Win, win for all. So much more choice and flexibility for all players.

[Ezrael.6859]

On 7/21/2023 at 7:30 AM, Caitmonster.9036 said:

As long as we don't wind up stuck in the Scholar Relic meta, I'll call it a success.

The meta issue with GW2 is the way the PvE systems have been created, to have a game with no trinity and no traditional class roles or fantasy elements.

You have a game built on providing generic boons, dealing power and condition damage, in melee or at range.

Everything is balanced around that, around simple DPS rotations and meeting DPS checks while avoiding flashing orange shapes on the floor. The professions and their elite specs have been purposefully homogenised over time to allow everyone an option to do one of the GW2 PvE roles due to the player feedback over the years. (Chrono used to have unique Alacrity).

That's just how the meta will always be in this game, it's been built that way.

 

If you want something more with all sorts of options being available and less simple meta then you need a different kind of fantasy MMO that isn't built around simple homogenised professions, but rather class-based fantasy with unique spells and abilities, each with pros and cons, some stronger in certain situations than others on purpose. Different types of physical and magical damage, different armour and magical resistances; different classes for tank, healer, crowd control and damage roles.

[babana.7521]

On 7/21/2023 at 7:03 AM, HeliosMagi.9867 said:

It seems every thread in this forums is full of people complaining about the new Rune and Relic system and how it's power creep and vertical progression and how it takes away value from Legendary Runes. But for some reason the people that are actually excited about the new system like myself have by curiously quiet. I for one am actually excited for the new possibilities the new Relic system brings, there are a ton of runes with really cool or powerful Lv6 effects that see little to no use in meta builds because they're attached to rune with mediocre stats. For example I love using Runes of Speed on my open-world Daredevil, but at the same time using them costs me a ton of damage compared to using Scholar runes. With the new system I'll be able to have the stats of Scholar runes with the boosted Swiftness of Speed runes.

TL;DR Please stop being so toxic about your current builds getting a little weaker and start being excited about the new, better builds you'll be getting.

This isn't the reason people don't like the Relic. Stop derailing the real problem

[Gehenna.3625]

On 7/27/2023 at 12:22 PM, pengefinchess.8452 said:

Hmm but surely if u got leggy runes ull do the leggy relic? I know not at launch but …;)

The problem is that the legendary relic may not come out for another 6 months to a year. And in the meantime they have to get all the relics they currently need replaced and then they can dump them again after they get the legendary relic.

I don't have any legendary runes (yet) but I think this is where Anet has screwed up. People who have more than 3 templates that they use are particularly screwed and when balance patches make some relics better than others, people will have to get those relics as well. 

I think most people agree that it's more valuable to have this separation of rune and relic because some of the abilities that people want were tied to stats they didn't necessarily want. It's just that this issue overshadows the relic system on the forums.