Alright Arenet designers.. lets square up!!

[Sinister.5792]

So you are giving other classes weapons for Main hand and Offhand.. 

But thief only gets axe mainhand? 

Still no focus for spectre, no sword offhand... no axe offhand... no torch off hand.... 

No longbow.... no shield...

 

But you're giving other classes some main hand and offhand.. 

 

This isn't right..

Who are the designers of this game, jesus, this is terrible game design for a class that is suppose to be dual wield profession... 

[FrancisN.9276]

Let's not forget the last balance patches introduced a quickness build that was not fully tested, which ended up being quite strong. And then they decided to nerf a completely irrelevant trait that hit every build, including some already underperforming ones, instead of rolling back the mess they created. This is pure laziness while pretending to save face with their employers, trying to make it look like their "patches" actually do something worth their paycheck. If you want meaningful changes, tell them with your wallet: stop swiping your credit card to buy anything from them until they do their job well.

[Bankrotas.8215]

On 7/31/2023 at 3:47 AM, Sinister.5792 said:

But thief only gets axe mainhand? 

Ele, Revenant too. So three.

Three dual wields and three two handed. 

Pretty balanced layout. While it's not the best outcome, trying to spin like you're only one kittened over isn't right either.

[Voraxen.2035]

Don't forget the elite skill or our elite class, Deadeye's Shadow Meld still only gives you 4 seconds of stealth on a 45 second cooldown. I can dodge and get more stealth than that.

[bq pd.2148]

39 minutes ago, Voraxen.2035 said:

Don't forget the elite skill or our elite class, Deadeye's Shadow Meld still only gives you 4 seconds of stealth on a 45 second cooldown. I can dodge and get more stealth than that.

4s on 90s cooldown, the 45s is per charge which is only 2s.

[cyberzombie.7348]

1 hour ago, Voraxen.2035 said:

Don't forget the elite skill or our elite class, Deadeye's Shadow Meld still only gives you 4 seconds of stealth on a 45 second cooldown. I can dodge and get more stealth than that.

Yeah, its basically a blinding powder but with 1/5 of the utility.

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

3 hours ago, cyberzombie.7348 said:

Yeah, its basically a blinding powder but with 1/5 of the utility.

its not taking a valuable utility slot, thats the only positive, which is a sad statement to make nevertheless 

[Doggie.3184]

Thief Dual Pistols were destroyed in 2015 when they deleted all it's fun traits as well as bugged with Daredevil since HoT release. Yet they're about to give a superior version of Dual Pistols to their beloved and spoiled Guardian class all at once; overloaded with all the things they took from us and more I'm sure, and they don't even bother letting us Dual Wield our Axes as the Dual Wielding class. Like; throw us a bone here 🦴 cuz it's very saddening.

[Batalix.2873]

While we're at it, delete quickdeadeye. Why is the ST sniper assassin selfish DPS booning at all?

Take quickness away from Deadeye, put it on a Daredevil dodge. Ya KNOW, the QUICK thief espec.

Also take alac off Shade Shroud and put it on Specter's siphon. If only to make Specter feel like less of a Scourge clone. While you're at it, make Specter wells only port when using a flip skill followup so it doesn't feel like a garbo Sand Swell copy paste. Also delete Shade Shroud and replace it with a shadow whip that just slingshots allies toward you, anything to make this embarrasment of an espec feel more distinct.

[Doggie.3184]

9 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

While we're at it, delete quickdeadeye. Why is the ST sniper assassin selfish DPS booning at all?

Take quickness away from Deadeye, put it on a Daredevil dodge. Ya KNOW, the QUICK thief espec.

Also take alac off Shade Shroud and put it on Specter's siphon. If only to make Specter feel like less of a Scourge clone. While you're at it, make Specter wells only port when using a flip skill followup so it doesn't feel like a garbo Sand Swell copy paste. Also delete Shade Shroud and replace it with a shadow whip that just slingshots allies toward you, anything to make this embarrasment of an espec feel more distinct.

IDK but Snipers aren't selfish, they work in Teams and have a personal spotter assisting them. We should have a pet bird spotting for us like the Sniper in "MGS:Snake Eater" + his ability to die of old age while waiting for patches to fix our class.

Edit: Actually nevermind I forgot Deadeye is a Dual Dagger spec, not a Sniper, cuz the Rifle sux due to Engi stealing our best Rifle instead of them sticking to their Shotgun. They even made Steal Time an AoE around you and not the enemy as well, further pulling them away from the ranged combat fantasy~ something someone else fixed a long time ago with the old "Fire for Effect" that casted boons around enemy+player.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Doggie.3184

[Burnfall.9573]

On 7/30/2023 at 8:47 PM, Sinister.5792 said:

So you are giving other classes weapons for Main hand and Offhand.. 

But thief only gets axe mainhand? 

Still no focus for spectre, no sword offhand... no axe offhand... no torch off hand.... 

No longbow.... no shield...

 

But you're giving other classes some main hand and offhand.. 

 

This isn't right..

Who are the designers of this game, jesus, this is terrible game design for a class that is suppose to be dual wield profession... 

this isn't right?

Anet Designers committing Profession Identity Theft and Hijack and giving it to the most Toxic Profession design in MMO gaming industry history.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Portal_Entre

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Portal

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shroud

[Doggie.3184]

20 minutes ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

this isn't right?

Anet Designers committing Profession Identity Theft and Hijack and giving it to the most Toxic Profession design in MMO gaming industry history.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Portal_Entre

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Portal

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shroud

GW1 Assassins were the original Shroud users (Shadow Shroud and Shadow Form) so technically Necro stole it from Thief, since Necro had nothing like that in GW1.

Assassins were also the teleporters, I don't recall Mesmers having such things. Portal would have been most suited for them long before Mesmer but it ended up other way around.

Assassins went into some type of coma and amnesia between the transition between GW1 and 2 and lost a lot of themselves along the way, including their profession name.

[draxynnic.3719]

3 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Assassins went into some type of coma and amnesia between the transition between GW1 and 2 and lost a lot of themselves along the way, including their profession name.

Which is somewhat explained - Tyrian thieves were the result of some assassin skills leaking into criminal and espionage communities, but proper assassins were only being trained in Cantha and Lion's Arch. After Zhaitan's rise, there weren't any full assassins left in Tyria, and core thief was basically a patchwork built from the assassin skills that did still remain, and then it went in its own direction for a century or so afterwards.

Combine the elite specs together, though, and you at least have most of the themes that were originally in assassin. It's notable that Cantha has NPC deadeyes as well as spectres, suggesting that they retained the most robust training pipeline - off the top of my head I don't recall seeing NPC daredevils anywhere, but daredevil mechanics aren't as distinctive as the other two so it's possible that they just don't stand out.

TLDR: It's official lore that assassins lost a lot of themselves in the transition to becoming thieves.

[Burnfall.9573]

4 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

GW1 Assassins were the original Shroud users (Shadow Shroud and Shadow Form) so technically Necro stole it from Thief, since Necro had nothing like that in GW1.

Assassins were also the teleporters, I don't recall Mesmers having such things. Portal would have been most suited for them long before Mesmer but it ended up other way around.

Assassins went into some type of coma and amnesia between the transition between GW1 and 2 and lost a lot of themselves along the way, including their profession name.

My friend; Necromancer Profession is the original of Shroud and it was here first before Assassin Profession: which was released in Guild Wars: Faction Expansion. 

 

"The Vale Wraith is a Halloween costume. The set comprises a Wraith Veil and a Wraith Shroud." Vale Wraith costume is Necromancer Profession signature and costume

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Vale_Wraith

 

Necromancer Profession Wraith minions

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wraith

 

Anet Honorably and Respectfully assigned Wraith Mask -Masque exclusively to Necromancer Profession in Guild Wars 2

 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wraith_Masque

 

Here is a thread inquiring for a Wraith Specialization for the Necromancer Profession

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/628-next-elite-spec-suggestion-wraith/

 

-Shroud is Necromance Profession Identity-

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shroud

 "...necromancer's unique mechanic"

 

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Doggie.3184]

1 hour ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

My friend; Necromancer Profession is the original of Shroud and it was here first before Assassin Profession: which was released in Guild Wars: Faction Expansion. 

 

"The Vale Wraith is a Halloween costume. The set comprises a Wraith Veil and a Wraith Shroud." Vale Wraith costume is Necromancer Profession signature and costume

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Vale_Wraith

 

Necromancer Profession Wraith minions

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wraith

 

Anet Honorably and Respectfully assigned Wraith Mask -Masque exclusively to Necromancer Profession in Guild Wars 2

 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wraith_Masque

 

Here is a thread inquiring for a Wraith Specialization for the Necromancer Profession

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/628-next-elite-spec-suggestion-wraith/

 

-Shroud is Necromance Profession Identity-

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shroud

 "...necromancer's unique mechanic"

 

I'm talking about GW1 skills, not costumes. Shadow Shroud is ported over from GW1, Necromancer didn't have skills like that.

[Burnfall.9573]

17 minutes ago, Doggie.3184 said:

I'm talking about GW1 skills, not costumes. Shadow Shroud is ported over from GW1, Necromancer didn't have skills like that.

did you read my post? Assassin Profession was released in Fraction Expansion

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Factions

 

Necromancer Profession: Shroud

(Reaper, Scourge, Habinger)

http://en.gw2skills.net/wiki/necromancer/special/

Edited August 10, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Doggie.3184]

9 minutes ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

did you read my post? Assassin Profession was released in Fraction Expansion

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Factions

 

Necromancer Profession: Shroud

(Reaper, Scourge, Habinger)

http://en.gw2skills.net/wiki/necromancer/special/

2006 happened before 2012 so not sure what yer get'n at.

[Burnfall.9573]

Just now, Doggie.3184 said:

2006 happened before 2012 so not sure what yer get'n at.

Just like giving feedbacks...I am politely correcting you with evidence, that is all

[draxynnic.3719]

The Vale Wraith costume was introduced in 2011, while assassin shroud-themed skills were introduced when Factions released in 2006 (the ingame store wasn't even introduced until after Factions released). Assassin did have it long before necromancer.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

4 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

Just like giving feedbacks...I am politely correcting you with evidence, that is all

The problem is that all the evidence you've ever given on these forums only politely supports the conclusion that you don't read things before quoting them. No offence intended.

[Burnfall.9573]

3 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

The problem is that all the evidence you've ever given on these forums only politely supports the conclusion that you don't read things before quoting them. No offence intended.

I had always respected your opinion no matter what, your apology is not accepted

Edited August 10, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Burnfall.9573]

6 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

The Vale Wraith costume was introduced in 2011, while assassin shroud-themed skills were introduced when Factions released in 2006 (the ingame store wasn't even introduced until after Factions released). Assassin did have it long before necromancer.

Vale Wraith is a shroud clothing which is associated with burying the dead. Assassin Profession does not wear shroud clothing nor is associated with burial or with the dead. 

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-shroud/

Vale Wraith is a Halloween Costume which Halloween is associated with the day of the dead- ghosts, goblins, skeletons, witches, brooms, candy corn, ghouls, minions, underworld...all dead things

 

Halloween

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Halloween

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Halloween

 

Mad King

Guild Wars  Mad King Halloween event: "which celebrates the return of Mad King Thorn from the Underworld. Some outposts celebrate Halloween by decorating them to have an appropriately ghoulish and ghostly appearance."

"When Halloween approaches, Thorn's influence seeps through into Kamadan and Lion's Arch, transforming the citizens into assorted monsters. He is generally accompanied by Candy Corn servants.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mad_King_Thorn

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mad_King_Thorn

 

In addition:

Mad King Profession is Warrior Profession who was married to his first wife-a human: Lady Lyric than later remarried 7 times during his reign as a King. Mad King Thorn bore two sons: Bloody Prince Thorn and Palawa Joko, who were not humans but were Necromancers. They both bear different last names with having two different mothers who were Necromancers.

Mad King Thorn deep obsession with death is what drew him to fall in love with Necromancy.

 

In conclusion: 

Shroud, The Undead, Halloween, The Underworld, Conditions, Death, Everything-Anything That Is Associated With Death... Are The Greatest Homage We Can Pay To Necromancer Profession As The Master Of Death.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[FrancisN.9276]

2 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

Vale Wraith is a shroud clothing which is associated with burying the dead. Assassin Profession does not wear shroud clothing nor is associated with burial or with the dead. 

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-shroud/

Vale Wraith is a Halloween Costume which Halloween is associated with the day of the dead- ghosts, goblins, skeletons, witches, brooms, candy corn, ghouls, minions, underworld...all dead things

 

Halloween

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Halloween

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Halloween

 

Mad King

Guild Wars  Mad King Halloween event: "which celebrates the return of Mad King Thorn from the Underworld. Some outposts celebrate Halloween by decorating them to have an appropriately ghoulish and ghostly appearance."

"When Halloween approaches, Thorn's influence seeps through into Kamadan and Lion's Arch, transforming the citizens into assorted monsters. He is generally accompanied by Candy Corn servants.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mad_King_Thorn

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mad_King_Thorn

 

In addition:

Mad King Profession is Warrior Profession who was married to his first wife-a human: Lady Lyric than later remarried 7 times during his reign as a King. Mad King Thorn bore two sons: Bloody Prince Thorn and Palawa Joko, who were not humans but were Necromancers. They both bear different last names with having two different mothers who were Necromancers.

Mad King Thorn deep obsession with death is what drew him to fall in love with Necromancy.

 

In conclusion: 

Shroud, The Undead, Halloween, The Underworld, Conditions, Death, Everything-Anything That Is Associated With Death... Are The Greatest Homage We Can Pay To Necromancer Profession As The Master Of Death.

My friend, I am worried for your sake. Do you need help with the verbal reasoning and analytical writing? I can point you to a good source to improve those skills.

[draxynnic.3719]

5 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

Vale Wraith is a shroud clothing which is associated with burying the dead. Assassin Profession does not wear shroud clothing nor is associated with burial or with the dead. 

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-shroud/

Vale Wraith is a Halloween Costume which Halloween is associated with the day of the dead- ghosts, goblins, skeletons, witches, brooms, candy corn, ghouls, minions, underworld...all dead things

 

Halloween

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Halloween

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Halloween

 

Mad King

Guild Wars  Mad King Halloween event: "which celebrates the return of Mad King Thorn from the Underworld. Some outposts celebrate Halloween by decorating them to have an appropriately ghoulish and ghostly appearance."

"When Halloween approaches, Thorn's influence seeps through into Kamadan and Lion's Arch, transforming the citizens into assorted monsters. He is generally accompanied by Candy Corn servants.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mad_King_Thorn

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mad_King_Thorn

 

In addition:

Mad King Profession is Warrior Profession who was married to his first wife-a human: Lady Lyric than later remarried 7 times during his reign as a King. Mad King Thorn bore two sons: Bloody Prince Thorn and Palawa Joko, who were not humans but were Necromancers. They both bear different last names with having two different mothers who were Necromancers.

Mad King Thorn deep obsession with death is what drew him to fall in love with Necromancy.

 

In conclusion: 

Shroud, The Undead, Halloween, The Underworld, Conditions, Death, Everything-Anything That Is Associated With Death... Are The Greatest Homage We Can Pay To Necromancer Profession As The Master Of Death.

And yet, a Shadow Shroud skill existed on the Assassin class in 2016, along with a number of other 'shroud' skills used both offensively and defensively, and Shadow Form which doesn't explicitly invoke the term 'shroud' but carries the same general theme of the assassin wrapping themselves in shadow magic as a means of self-defence. Specter shroud is simply updating this concept to GW2 mechanics, which thief deserves to do as the heir to the GW1 assassin.

The costume, while spooky as expected for Halloween, is available to all GW1 characters regardless of profession.

While commonly associated with burial, the term 'shroud' is primarily associated with cover and concealment (consider what the purpose of the burial shroud is) - so it's actually more fitting for thief than necromancer. It only came to be associated with necromancer when necromancer was announced for GW2 (around 2010 if I remember correctly), while it was associated with thief back in 2006.

None of your claimed evidence holds up to scrutiny. Thief, as the successor to assassin, has the prior claim.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

11 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

I had always respected your opinion no matter what, your apology is not accepted

I wasn't apologising. I was simply stating my intent was not to insult you, but to show how you come off when you make arguments that make no sense based on evidence that is clearly not supporting your conclusion. You give a good example of this flawed reasoning here:

7 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

Vale Wraith is a shroud clothing which is associated with burying the dead. Assassin Profession does not wear shroud clothing nor is associated with burial or with the dead. 

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-shroud/

Vale Wraith is a Halloween Costume which Halloween is associated with the day of the dead- ghosts, goblins, skeletons, witches, brooms, candy corn, ghouls, minions, underworld...all dead things

 

Halloween

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Halloween

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Halloween

A costume that any class could wear. By this logic, you could argue that necromancer stole the shroud mechanic from warrior. 

7 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

Mad King

Guild Wars  Mad King Halloween event: "which celebrates the return of Mad King Thorn from the Underworld. Some outposts celebrate Halloween by decorating them to have an appropriately ghoulish and ghostly appearance."

"When Halloween approaches, Thorn's influence seeps through into Kamadan and Lion's Arch, transforming the citizens into assorted monsters. He is generally accompanied by Candy Corn servants.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mad_King_Thorn

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mad_King_Thorn

 

In addition:

Mad King Profession is Warrior Profession who was married to his first wife-a human: Lady Lyric than later remarried 7 times during his reign as a King. Mad King Thorn bore two sons: Bloody Prince Thorn and Palawa Joko, who were not humans but were Necromancers. They both bear different last names with having two different mothers who were Necromancers.

Mad King Thorn deep obsession with death is what drew him to fall in love with Necromancy.

Where are you getting the idea that Palawa Joko is the son of Mad King Thorn? The sources you quote clearly tell you he is not. From the first paragraph of the first link:

Prince Oswald Thorn was born in Kryta in the eighth century AE. Already showing early signs of sociopathy,^[1] he became a prolific prankster and troublemaker. During a visit of diplomats from Elona, Oswald met with the diplomat's son Palawa Joko. Viewing the young Thorn ripping wings off of flies as amateurish for not utilizing torture to its fullest extent, Joko secretly taught Oswald what creatures would survive torture and be of use afterwards, suggesting that Oswald should direct his sadism towards his servants instead. The young prince challenged Joko to a pun contest much to the latter's horror, and the pranks escalated into a clash between the two youths, the first battle to take place between the future lich king and Mad King.^[2]

And another quote from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Palawa_Joko:

According to the Private Property of P.I. Joko written by young "Iggy", however, Joko appears to have been the son of an Elonian diplomat (with the province of origin unknown) in the eighth century AE. In his youth, he accompanied his mother on her diplomatic tours and visited Kryta where, while suffering from boredom, he met with young Prince Oswald Thorn who was already showing signs of violence. 

 

Regarding the actual point you were trying to make:

There is not a single instance of the words necromancy or necromancer in either of the links you provided. Thorn ended up in the underworld because he was dead:

The tyranny of Mad King Thorn came to an end in approximately 825 AE when an angry mob stormed Castle Thorn, ending his earthly rule. The rebels intended to kill Oswald's eighth wife and son as well during the assault, ending the Thorn dynasty, and beseech his cousin to take the throne and plead forgiveness. Worried that the Mad King would try to return using his magic, his killers hid his body parts in boxes and buried them in locations scattered across Tyria, obscuring their locations with magical seals.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mad_King_Thorn

So if your logic is that he was a necromancer because he came from the underworld, then that means my thief is also a necromancer because he was killed by Balthazar and came back from death during the Path of Fire main story. If you're saying that he's a necromancer because he married one, well, I guess Kasmeer Meade isn't a mesmer anymore either. 

7 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

In conclusion: 

Shroud, The Undead, Halloween, The Underworld, Conditions, Death, Everything-Anything That Is Associated With Death... Are The Greatest Homage We Can Pay To Necromancer Profession As The Master Of Death.

Your evidence has literally nothing to do with necromancers, as I and others have shown. Do you see where I am getting the idea that you don't read what you quote?