Discover the Wonders within the Wizard’s Vault in Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure

[Tachenon.5270]

2 hours ago, Acheron.1580 said:

That's pretty much each announcement in a nutshell, was the same with the relic system. We got a sample of 3 or 4 relics at best. Since they haven't elaborated any further on this, with less than a week to go for launch this is probably the information we get until then.

Seems to me, at this point, anyway, SoTO is essentially a glorified loot box.

[Ashen.2907]

15 minutes ago, Acheron.1580 said:

Let's just assume you are some kitten streamer who bought 40 accounts and then brags about how you make 2K gold a month doing nothing. And then other people start doing it too. And you spent what $400-$500 buying those accounts? But now you make so much gold each month that you never have to spend a dime buying gems ever again. Guess where Anet probably makes most of their money. So early yea they are thrilled you spent so much buying their game (although you just did it when it was on a discount but hey). And now they won't see a dime of revenue from you again. You did nothing to earn it, you threw money at an exploit, which was publicly announced, and of course was going to be closed off at some point.

And yes, the gold is infinite. The resources you are getting literally come from thin air, you have to do nothing but show up to get it.

If ANet did not want people to own multiple accounts they should not have sold them those accounts. It is not an exploit to receive benefit from spending real money on the game. If it is then buying gems to then spend in game is an exploit and people should stop doing so. I know that the people in my guild that bought multiple accounts are not motivated to buy gems by having the benefits of spending money on the game removed.

In order for the gold to be infinite one would have to be able to gain infinite gold. So, how many people have more than a trillion gold?

[Acheron.1580]

1 minute ago, Ashen.2907 said:

If ANet did not want people to own multiple accounts they should not have sold them those accounts. It is not an exploit to receive benefit from spending real money on the game. If it is then buying gems to then spend in game is an exploit and people should stop doing so. I know that the people in my guild that bought multiple accounts are not motivated to buy gems by having the benefits of spending money on the game removed.

In order for the gold to be infinite one would have to be able to gain infinite gold. So, how many people have more than a trillion gold?

How would one even know that the same person it buying multiple accounts? How would you even enforce or recognize that? And people can own multiple accounts without using it just for login bonuses. Maybe they bought a spouse, their kids, a friend an account. There's simply no way to police that.

The game encourages you to spend real money, hence the gems and even gems to gold conversion. But you basically made a 1 time payment for gold, and then made more than you could have over time compared to the price of buying gems and converting them to gold now, meaning you wouldn't need to support their model further down the line. As I mentioned with basic math you more than break even 5 months down the line per account, and the longer it goes on for the more you got for the same investment. That could be considered an exploit.

The only requirement for an infinite amount of gold is an infinite amount of resources, which you have with your daily log in bonus. The coins aren't pulled from anywhere. Just because they don't sell for infinity+ gold each doesn't mean it isn't infinite. There is no well it pulls from that can dry up, there isn't a finite amount of it. Therefore, infinite. As long as you can sell it for ANY amount, then that by definition means the money you make off of it is also infinite.

[Ashen.2907]

3 minutes ago, Acheron.1580 said:

How would one even know that the same person it buying multiple accounts? How would you even enforce or recognize that? And people can own multiple accounts without using it just for login bonuses. Maybe they bought a spouse, their kids, a friend an account. There's simply no way to police that.

The game encourages you to spend real money, hence the gems and even gems to gold conversion. But you basically made a 1 time payment for gold, and then made more than you could have over time compared to the price of buying gems and converting them to gold now, meaning you wouldn't need to support their model further down the line. As I mentioned with basic math you more than break even 5 months down the line per account, and the longer it goes on for the more you got for the same investment. That could be considered an exploit.

The only requirement for an infinite amount of gold is an infinite amount of resources, which you have with your daily log in bonus. The coins aren't pulled from anywhere. Just because they don't sell for infinity+ gold each doesn't mean it isn't infinite. There is no well it pulls from that can dry up, there isn't a finite amount of it. Therefore, infinite. As long as you can sell it for ANY amount, then that by definition means the money you make off of it is also infinite.

I expect that very few of those buying the 40+ accounts you mention did so with 40+ separate credit cards or bank accounts.

If one has infinite resources, then there is no limit to those resources. Can one have an infinite number of MC right now or are they limited to how many exist right now?

Edited August 16, 2023 by Ashen.2907

[Falson.5284]

On 8/15/2023 at 12:20 PM, Sjentra.3409 said:

So how much of a nerf is this from the "current" login rewards of 20 mystic coins, 35 laurels and 7 mystic clovers every 28 days from just logging in?

I'm sure it's going to range from decent to enormous, depending on how much effort you're willing to put in to finish every task. You'll probably get close to where you were before if you complete everything, though that isn't taking into account the new exclusive rewards you may want to go for instead of the stuff we get now. But if you only get the 5 per day from logging in, I imagine you'll be lucky to even max out one of the items we get now in terms of the monthly amount (i.e. maybe you could get 20 laurels OR 20 coins OR tomes/luck/whatever else people care about in there) but I almost even doubt that, and I haven't seen them mention whether you'll even be able to get the clovers anymore, which are one of the best choices currently

[WRay.2391]

1 hour ago, Acheron.1580 said:

Let's just assume you are some kitten streamer who bought 40 accounts and then brags about how you make 2K gold a month doing nothing. And then other people start doing it too. And you spent what $400-$500 buying those accounts? But now you make so much gold each month that you never have to spend a dime buying gems ever again. Guess where Anet probably makes most of their money. So early yea they are thrilled you spent so much buying their game (although you just did it when it was on a discount but hey). And now they won't see a dime of revenue from you again. You did nothing to earn it, you threw money at an exploit, which was publicly announced, and of course was going to be closed off at some point.

And yes, the gold is infinite. The resources you are getting literally come from thin air, you have to do nothing but show up to get it.

Not sure about infinite gold, but with what I currently have it'll take me couple of months to get materials for Gen2 legendary AFTER completing pre-cursor. After nerf I would assume it'll be like half a year at least. I completed collections for 7 Gen2s. Now I will not be able to complete it in any forceable future. Stopped caring at this point, whatever. Unless they will drastically change legendary recipes to reduce material cost, which will never happen.
 

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Acheron.1580 said:

Not an unreasonable concern but we may see a decrease in price if MCs are easier to get for the individual, or the legendary starter kits (while maybe not useful to people who have the legendary already in terms of value) might be a big swing for those players. We just don't know yet.

If MCs/Clovers would be indeed significantly more farmable in the new system, they would have told us so. Instead they are answering using vague and unclear statements. Or aren't answering at all.

Hint: they aren't doing that because the news are good.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[Barraind.7324]

7 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

What is stable? What it the target price you deem acceptable? How much deviation is still acceptable to be stable?

I don't know how was before ~2017 when I started playing but as far as I'm playing mystic coins are stable. With maybe exception pre-EOD launch which I think was driven by player hype and speculation. Definitely more stable than real life investment markets within this timeframe.

The "stability" of the mystic coin market:

Jan 2013: 0.14g

Feb 2014:  0.01g (prices reach as low as 90 copper in mid 2014, then slowly climb)

June 2015: 0.14g  (prices sit here for a year)

June 2016: 0.75g (prices steadily rise) 

Sep 2017: 1.5g (prices drop to 1g within 2 months, then slowly rise over a 4 year period)

March 1 2021: 2.2g (I picked this day as this is a snapshot before EoD was announced, so theres no "it jumped from 1.5g to 2.5g entirely due to EoD!!!!!!!!) 

May 2021: 2.5g 

Feb 2022: 1.8g

Sep 2022: 0.7g

July 2023: 1.6g

 

That is not stability.  (Stability itself means "a long period of time without marked inflation or deflation").

A good example of relative stability is Glob of Ectoplasm, specifically from June 2018 (when unid bags started being introduced) to June 2023.   From start to end, its maximum gain in value was a 4-day stretch where prices jumped 50%, and its overall value moved from 15.67 to 15.74, a total change of 0.45% over a 5 year period. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Barraind.7324

[WRay.2391]

34 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If MCs/Clovers would be indeed significantly more farmable in the new system, they would have told us so. Instead they are answering using vague and unclear statements. Or aren't answering at all.

Hint: they aren't doing that because the news are good.

This. And probably they expect negative reaction, so gave the least possible number of clarifications to not hurt sales.

[Tiviana.2650]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If MCs/Clovers would be indeed significantly more farmable in the new system, they would have told us so. Instead they are answering using vague and unclear statements. Or aren't answering at all.

Hint: they aren't doing that because the news are good.

The point im making is why remove the old system? they are making a mistake, many people use that system and its more fair than this setup. So instead of you getting rewarded for doing dailys now you have to buy what was given before. how are people not seeing this? Im flummoxed at this point, is our society so blind to a ripoff?  

[Tiviana.2650]

5 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

They probably didn't want too much negative info to be included in articles about SotO. Sure, that might mean players will be more disappointed later, but that would be later, not today.

Yeah after we buy the xpacklol 

[WRay.2391]

1 minute ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

The point im making is why remove the old system? they are making a mistake, many people use that system and its more fair than this setup. So instead of you getting rewarded for doing dailys now you have to buy what was given before. how are people not seeing this? Im flummoxed at this point, is our society so blind to a ripoff?  

I think ppl here are divided like this:
1. Have ridiculous amount of time, probably less money, probably don't buy gems too much. Don't have alts, farm long time, hate ppl with alts, now happy.

2. Barons, have it all. Full legendary, no major material sink, control market. Probably buy gems converting gold. They are happy CMs price will skyrocket, they will be more rich.

3. Regular ppl with alts, have some money to invest in alts, not that much to buy gems for real money all the time. Not much time to play and grind, but invested enough to work towards goals, use alt materials themselves. This group is screwed, but has potential for Anet to squeeze money from. 

4. Abusers, bot farmers etc. They mostly don't care. Will still bot, will sell for more.

I think all see consequences of changes, some just happy about it for some reason and only one group is screwed.

Aggregation is obviously very rough, but this is what I see as main groups right now, there will be permutation.

[Tiviana.2650]

Just now, WRay.2391 said:

I think ppl here are divided like this:
1. Have ridiculous amount of time, probably less money, probably don't buy gems too much. Don't have alts, farm long time, hate ppl with alts, now happy.

2. Barons, have it all. Full legendary, no major material sink, control market. Probably buy gems converting gold. They are happy CMs price will skyrocket, they will be more rich.

3. Regular ppl with alts, have some money to invest in alts, not that much to buy gems for real money all the time. Not much time to play and grind, but invested enough to work towards goals, use alt materials themselves. This group is screwed, but has potential for Anet to squeeze money from. 

4. Abusers, bot farmers etc. They mostly don't care. Will still bot, will sell for more.

I think all see consequences of changes, some just happy about it for some reason and only one group is screwed.

Aggregation is obviously very rough, but this is what I see as main groups right now, there will be permutation.

I see that but we are actually losing in the end. We are losing resources and gold, and the little gifts we got for logging in. Why grinch out is my question? players without soto wont have access to a lot of the AA currency stuff either from what people have said.  Not to mention it still boggles my mind that people cant see they are losing gold here, its like breathing air you always have it and its free, now they want you to pay for it

[WRay.2391]

A lot of ppl will reap benefit from material price increase. Some just happy when others hurt, these probably will realize later they'll be hurt as well as a result, but immediate happiness usually takes control. Overall daily achievement changes potentially not bad in general, but login reward change is totally unwarranted and should've been left alone.

[DeanBB.4268]

1 minute ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

... now they want you to pay for it

Anet wants you to pay for it, but are giving you the currency for it. More than likely less net stuff than the login rewards, but you can choose your own rewards. If you don't want luck, tomes, junk boosters, transmutation charges, or whatever, you don't have to buy them, you can choose to buy the rewards of interest.

We won't know how lucrative or not this is until next week, apparently.

[Tiviana.2650]

2 minutes ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

Anet wants you to pay for it, but are giving you the currency for it. More than likely less net stuff than the login rewards, but you can choose your own rewards. If you don't want luck, tomes, junk boosters, transmutation charges, or whatever, you don't have to buy them, you can choose to buy the rewards of interest.

We won't know how lucrative or not this is until next week, apparently.

Someone did the math in another thread, this is a nerf to coins clovers and laurels 

[WRay.2391]

Just now, DeanBB.4268 said:

Anet wants you to pay for it, but are giving you the currency for it. More than likely less net stuff than the login rewards, but you can choose your own rewards. If you don't want luck, tomes, junk boosters, transmutation charges, or whatever, you don't have to buy them, you can choose to buy the rewards of interest.

We won't know how lucrative or not this is until next week, apparently.

Look at overall f2p psychology involved, plenty of videos. As a rule of thumb any addition of new currency is not a good sign for players. Most probably you will work more for less, but will be hard to realize. I hope Anet will surprise me here, but at the end they are company working for profit, balancing on how much they can squeeze from ppl without backlash.

[Acheron.1580]

2 minutes ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

I see that but we are actually losing in the end. We are losing resources and gold, and the little gifts we got for logging in. Why grinch out is my question? players without soto wont have access to a lot of the AA currency stuff either from what people have said.  Not to mention it still boggles my mind that people cant see they are losing gold here, its like breathing air you always have it and its free, now they want you to pay for it

Im pretty sure Rubi has mentioned several times it doesn't require the expansion. In all irony, it looks like the FTP crowd is getting a leg up over all the people who bought several dozen accounts for login bonuses (I'm assuming the FTP crowd actually just want to play). There is a LOT that is being stripped away which has been pointed out several times, ignoring the log in bonus, like the daily gold, karma from doing the dailies, writs of exp, potentially the bonus exp pots from pvp and wvw, and maybe the MC from the mystic forge daily. Assuming everything lost can be purchased with the new currency, all they are doing it making you work a little harder for it while discouraging buying multiple farming accounts. Is it good? Is it bad? I'm going to lean to it will feel really bad the first few days/weeks as you accumulate AA instead of spend it because you want something specific. It'll only be obvious at the end of the season whether it was an overall improvement, though arguably when we finally see prices, purchasing limits, and the rewards for daily and special, etc, we will be able to napkin math it.

[Acheron.1580]

2 hours ago, WRay.2391 said:

Not sure about infinite gold, but with what I currently have it'll take me couple of months to get materials for Gen2 legendary AFTER completing pre-cursor. After nerf I would assume it'll be like half a year at least. I completed collections for 7 Gen2s. Now I will not be able to complete it in any forceable future. Stopped caring at this point, whatever. Unless they will drastically change legendary recipes to reduce material cost, which will never happen.
 

I mean, really depends on how many MC you can get without depending on the TP now, or even what the legendary starter kits include.

[Linken.6345]

1 minute ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

Someone did the math in another thread, this is a nerf to coins clovers and laurels 

How did they do the math when we dont know how much 1 aa is worth atm?

[WRay.2391]

Just now, Acheron.1580 said:

Im pretty sure Rubi has mentioned several times it doesn't require the expansion. In all irony, it looks like the FTP crowd is getting a leg up over all the people who bought several dozen accounts for login bonuses (I'm assuming the FTP crowd actually just want to play). There is a LOT that is being stripped away which has been pointed out several times, ignoring the log in bonus, like the daily gold, karma from doing the dailies, writs of exp, potentially the bonus exp pots from pvp and wvw, and maybe the MC from the mystic forge daily. Assuming everything lost can be purchased with the new currency, all they are doing it making you work a little harder for it while discouraging buying multiple farming accounts. Is it good? Is it bad? I'm going to lean to it will feel really bad the first few days/weeks as you accumulate AA instead of spend it because you want something specific. It'll only be obvious at the end of the season whether it was an overall improvement, though arguably when we finally see prices, purchasing limits, and the rewards for daily and special, etc, we will be able to napkin math it.

The problem is if you take core Tyria f2p account vs paid account, a lot of benefits of paid will be just erased, and ppl paid for it.

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If MCs/Clovers would be indeed significantly more farmable in the new system, they would have told us so. Instead they are answering using vague and unclear statements. Or aren't answering at all.

Hint: they aren't doing that because the news are good.

Exactly.

In my experience when a company knows that their new system, product, whatever is all positives, something they are 100% proud of and know will receive overwhelmingly positive response, they dont hide behind vague PR releases until after they have the customer's money. Rather they trumpet it to no end showing off, in detail, how amazing their new thing is.

[Acheron.1580]

Just now, WRay.2391 said:

The problem is if you take core Tyria f2p account vs paid account, a lot of benefits of paid will be just erased, and ppl paid for it.

There is so much more to a paid account than a ftp than just the log in bonus. The fact that people were making so many accounts just for the log in bonus sounds so absurd as a game design. There is no possible way when they changed over the idea behind monthly achievements to the log in bonus they had intended people to use it that way because it only hurts the income of the company in the long run, and doesn't promote actually playing their game, which would be the point.

[WRay.2391]

Just now, Acheron.1580 said:

There is so much more to a paid account than a ftp than just the log in bonus. The fact that people were making so many accounts just for the log in bonus sounds so absurd as a game design. There is no possible way when they changed over the idea behind monthly achievements to the log in bonus they had intended people to use it that way because it only hurts the income of the company in the long run, and doesn't promote actually playing their game, which would be the point.

Being one of the benefits does not mean it negligible, especially if you understand that ppl paid for it. Removing it should warrant compensation.

[Tiviana.2650]

3 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

How did they do the math when we dont know how much 1 aa is worth atm?

There was a screenshot of the cap, and i think someone said it was 1500 and another poster said something about it being 5 AA for the daily