Sobx.1758 Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, mandala.8507 said: This was always an abuse of the daily login reward system, and while they should have resolved this a lot sooner, I don't think anyone farming alt accounts could reasonably argue this was an intended way to farm resources in GW2. They'll just have to get over it, I think. Sure, they will. But they still paid for it while it was known to be going for a long time and it was also an information shared by people affiliated with anet, I think? So it wasn't some deeply hidden abused secret, but something everyone knew about and treated as rather normal -as such, I'm not sure anyone should be surprised by some of the reactions there 🤷♂️ Edited August 16, 2023 by Sobx.1758 1 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azorean.1850 Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 no never 3 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniyyel.3428 Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 anything? yes, everything? no 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 50 minutes ago, Daniyyel.3428 said: anything? yes, everything? no Well said. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 I hate to break the bad news. This is the internet and worse off the official forums. People don't come to forums for good news, they come for the drama and stay for the salt. Now excuse me while i monitor this thread to reach my daily sodium intake. 2 4 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 13 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said: they still paid for it I'm not sure how many players with an exorbitant amount of alt accounts "paid for it". There were some Heroic Edition promotions where one could easily obtain said editions (which count as paid accounts). 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babana.7521 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 I was extremely excited so extremely excited that I give money to ArenaNet the minute I saw SoTo pop up in the game. The very minute it pops up, no second thoughts, didn't even read what it is. Then I shared it over 6 other social medias. Then, I realize..., Relic .... because of relic I read more about it, they use the word Wizard, come on, Wizard?? .... also can you please tell me why this window is so ugly, you already have a template The Hero Panel why make another one when it going to look ugly, it looks like there isn't time to make proper icon they just pop what ever they find in the "library" and pop it in there. And what is with the Jumping Puzzle in WvW .... I HATE JUMPING PUZZLE. https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/37c0aWizards-Vault-EN.jpg 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crono.4197 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 I used to be excited about everything that happened in the game and was a "keyboard warrior" who defended everything Arenanet did, until I realized that many of the people that complain are actually right and that the game's quality has been dropping more and more over the years. Peak point was Icebrood Saga, where it was clearly visible and I couldn't find anymore excuses for bad content. People complain because the quality of the game is dropping. Less content for more money, badly writen and rushed story (End of Dragon went stereotypical predictable story in which the power of friendship wins and all our enemies were actually poor souls that were corrupted and are innocent), features that are there just for the sake of it and bring no real addition to the game. SoTo has some nice improvements indeed, but let's be honest, those are not expansion improvements, those are QoL improvements, which can be done without having an expasion. Expansion brings new things like: many new maps, new classes, new races, new features; Wizard's Vault is a system revamp (and even worse, it replaces the old daily login system), so can't say it's called "a feature". Same for being able to use new weapons, that's not a feature. Criticism is entirely valid. I'm still sticking with the game because this series has been part of my life since Guild Wars 1 launched and I'm trying to stick with it until the end, but unfortunately the game is becoming worse and worse. It's just that many people don't care about it and are excited just for getting new things, which is not a bad thing either. I'm glad for the players that can play the game and not feel any frustrations. But that doesn't mean all our criticism is invalid. 8 5 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorem.8104 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 23 hours ago, PyaKura.4895 said: Let me preface this by saying I don't share the same skepticism as "many" here (no matter how little of a vocal minority this term designates), because I am not affected by what you (general you) perceive as bad changes. However, as someone who works in the gaming industry, and has also spent upwards of 10 000 hours playing another MMO - namely FFXIV - and grew into a jaded veteran of that game who essentially "hates" almost everything about it nowadays but still keeps a subscription running, I do think I have some insight in both sides of the conversation. The harsh truth of game development - doesn't matter if you're making a standalone 5-hour long adventure indie game, an AAA blockbuster coming from a multibillion dollar company, or a live-service game - is that very rarely do things go exactly the way you plan and you have to make a lot of concessions that involve complex balancing between several key components (anyone who's even remotely done some project management will be familiar with the following): The scope of your project: how "big" you want the game, or part of it such as a DLC or in this case, an expansion, to be. Making a bigger game or expansion comes with higher costs, and requires more time. The development time: self-explanatory, but it can go 2 ways. Either you don't grow your team to keep costs low but you get things done slower, or you grow the team and reduce development time and costs go up. The development costs: money and everything closely tied to it such as manpower - you gotta pay those salaries, and how much manpower you have directly impacts how much you can get done. Also includes how you split and allocate your resources to various tasks. Add to that the complexity of running a live-service game with continuous costs subject to global inflation, ever-increasing expectations from the playerbase on a single game (instead of sequels/several standalone games), and staying competitive with the competition (not just MMOs, but other live-services which aim for high user-retention) and most likely many other aspects of game development I can't think off the top of my head (pleasing a certain Korea-based publisher, perhaps?), Anet has a huge behind-the-scenes mess they have to deal with on a daily basis. To get back to your post - and you might not like what I have to say; every decision the devs take has a good reason behind it. The devs are aware how risky a "bad" decision (as perceived by the players) can be to make, but I can assure you they made it with the interest of keeping the game running with all the aforementioned constraints in mind, and likely grow the company beyond GW2 (like it or not, not everyone want to be stuck working on a game for this long - sticking around for a decade on a single product is nothing short of a miracle). Yes, you might not like some decisions and have every right to express your discontent, but no, you cannot pretend to "see a path where the game doesn't succeed" and everything this entails long-term. Sure you might not like what you get right now, and Anet could go your way, but what good will that do when the game - or worse, the company - shuts down a few years down the line? Yes, you might think added development time on IBS and EoD might have resulted in better products and that's all the game needed to succeed (even more than it does), but no, development has a cost, Anet gotta pay bills, and sometimes you simply cannot do otherwise if you want to keep operating the game comfortably. In other words, making a better product - no matter how much the devs wanted it - was never an option. And devs care much more about getting a finished product out than you might think. And to whoever else reads this: yes, you might ask questions and wish Anet was more transparent about how they make their decisions, but no, you won't get every answer you seek, especially regarding the way Anet operates internally. Don't get me wrong, every blogpost and staff reply you get is carefully written and more often than not are marketing deeds, but I think they're great at what they do compared to the vast majority of developers. Getting a clear message across on the first go (especially in written form!) is harder than you think no matter how many times you proofread it, but fortunately Rubi is already here replying to the most frequently asked questions to clarify some of the more obscure aspects of the new feature. I for one am happy to have to engage with an endgame feature that allows me to progress towards whatever goal I want to work on on a daily basis, instead of the endgame wasteland that FF14 offers beyond the first 8 weeks of a new raid tier coming out every 8 months. The point of a game is to play it, isn't it? I might not like all the rules that make the game, but I like the whole thing enough to play it which I think is the bare minimum you can ask out of a game. I understand the frustration, but I wish people didn't act like entitled brats blissfully unaware that there is a lot more to GW2 development beyond making them happy, and think they could do a better job at developing the game than, I don't know, professional developers... If you've been contributing to the conversation with hard facts, examples and/or numbers combined with your personal opinion to form constructive criticism (not that there's much to "criticize" right now when we haven't got the expac in hands yet), or have been politely asking questions, then cheers to you! Tldr? Like that's a big post with a lot of "I don't know how to respect other peoples opinions" and btw, quite often dev choices are not what they want to do but what they are told to do by higher ups. What some suit tells them to do or say. Their vision only matters until higher ups step in because what they originally intended was going well enough to get notice. The team working on GW2 is not large, its a part of something bigger that they don't devote much resources too. There's a reason IBS went how it did, and EoD how it did, with both leading to massive disappointments. Its hard to be "happy" as the thread puts it when a game you love disappoints you when it could have so easily not disappointed anyone. When you have a passion for something and you can watch it without glossed over eyes and can see people leaving and less returning. IBS needed to be twice as long to flesh out its story and its story needed more to it regardless, certain characters died that led to nothing. I had more attachment to the Vigil then most characters in the story yet that's all we get and it leads to nowhere? It was so pointless, no narrative reason to happen. There is so many examples of this. GW2 could so easily be the greatest game on the market. But they are choosing to make it not and doing things that people who are currently playing and paying are against. That doesn't make any sense to me. The Ball is in Anet's court to make this expansion right and do good, if they continue to ignore people, well GW2 was good while it lasted. 1 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiina.4192 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 I hear you. While I agree with much of the criticism directed towards the game and ANet, I choose to like what I like about the game and only voice my complaint when a problem actually affects me. The negativity surrounding soto surely comes from understandable worry that content moving forward may be of lesser quality among other things, but I believe in the "wait and see" sentiment before I judge. For the time being, I'm very much excited for this expansion - and while I may wait some time before actually buying soto for myself, I don't believe that it's going to be objectively bad. Unlike the people mindlessly doomposting with no end in sight to that behaviour, I will just stop playing the game and move on until something entices me to return. Of course, GW2 means a lot to me, but there is so much more to life than GW2 - and if I were to think otherwise, I would likely need to change my mindset into a healthier one. It is perfectly okay and healthy to complain when you are unhappy. That is, until you begin to disrespect any opinion remotely conflicting yours and spend most of your time complaining in the forums about the same game you have stopped playing. That is exactly when it gets toxic. Beyond that, you need to understand that the internet has always been a cesspool of negativity and toxic positivity with rarely any in-betweens. This forum is no different. The same applies to the subreddit. Both places are full of either worn-out veterans or people eager to find a bandwagon that they can jump on. As such, they are not representative of the entire community - for that, just engage with people in-game. The best thing you can do is ignore these places to the best of your ability, and just enjoy the game until you lose interest. You are under no obligation to think and feel a certain way, and no internet stranger's opinion should affect how you see things. inb4 I get confused emoji'd to oblivion I guess 4 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibit.6259 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 Its more common for people to write a bad review about something than a good review. It's not a case everyone hates everything but more that they are the people that shout the loudest. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said: I'm not sure how many players with an exorbitant amount of alt accounts "paid for it". There were some Heroic Edition promotions where one could easily obtain said editions (which count as paid accounts). Not sure either, but there were posts where people complained because they paid for them, so that's what I'm commenting on. I always thought people should be rewarded for actually playing the game and its content (while the more content they play through, the more/different rewards they should be able to acquire), but if someone really doesn't understand why some people might complain about the change then maybe they actually needed that explanation. As for me, I don't especially care about this change, which doesn't mean I don't understand how some people are disgruntled by it after paying for accounts. Edited August 17, 2023 by Sobx.1758 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 (edited) On 8/15/2023 at 10:03 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said: I'm really happy to hear that you're excited for SotO and I don't want you to feel like you're alone. As I (along with others on the team) keep an eye on the conversations as August 22 draws nearer, we're paying attention to all of the conversations: Not just the concerns and frustrations, but the questions, the details of announcements that really excite people, and the things that people want more of. I pay attention to the constructive criticism and the worries, but I also pay attention to what people are excited for too and overall I think you're going to see a ton of excitement in game next week. Excuse me, but, when was the last time you looked into the wvw subforums? And where is that world restructuring/alliance news that was mentioned back on June 28th? https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/play-the-weaponmaster-training-beta-june-29-july-2/ Seven pve players extremely confused about a very simple question --> Edited August 18, 2023 by XenesisII.1540 2 2 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravitron.7982 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 On 8/15/2023 at 4:43 PM, HeliosMagi.9867 said: Every single time we get some new info about SotO, we get a flood of posts of people being toxic and angry about some small detail about it. Today we got more information about the Wizard's Vault, and I'm really excited about it. Pretty much everything about it is a straight upgrade from the daily system we have today. But then it seems like the entire playerbase wants to drown all excitement and hype of the new expansion under a flood of negativity and nitpicks. I'm legitimately happy and excited for all the new features SotO will bring, why aren't you guys? So your question is, why don't the same things that make you happy, make others happy? Well because we're all different people that like different things. 4 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said: Not sure either, but there were posts where people complained because they paid for them, so that's what I'm commenting on. I always thought people should be rewarded for actually playing the game and its content (while the more content they play through, the more/different rewards they should be able to acquire), but if someone really doesn't understand why some people might complain about the change then maybe they actually needed that explanation. As for me, I don't especially care about this change, which doesn't mean I don't understand how some people are disgruntled by it after paying for accounts. Or claimed they paid for them, because the change may affect them. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said: Or claimed they paid for them, because the change may affect them. Sure, but at this point it's like you're trying to claim nobody bought accounts when it's surely not true. I'm not somehow pointing out or deciding who exactly bought what, but some people still did. Edited August 17, 2023 by Sobx.1758 3 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 I'm sure players bought alt accounts; I did. But those that claim 20, 40, 100? I'm not so sure. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 Just now, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said: I'm sure players bought alt accounts; I did. But those that claim 20, 40, 100? I'm not so sure. Ok, but at this point, really, how is this relevant? Are you under impression that I somehow said that everyone having multiple accounts necessarily bought them? Because I didn't. So what is pointing out that "not everyone did" supposed to change about what I wrote? I seriously don't know. All I said is that some people are affected and have a rather understandable reaction to that change. The response "but not all paid!" changes nothing about what I wrote as far as I'm aware. 2 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom.8029 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 On 8/15/2023 at 7:43 PM, HeliosMagi.9867 said: Every single time we get some new info about SotO, we get a flood of posts of people being toxic and angry about some small detail about it. Today we got more information about the Wizard's Vault, and I'm really excited about it. Pretty much everything about it is a straight upgrade from the daily system we have today. But then it seems like the entire playerbase wants to drown all excitement and hype of the new expansion under a flood of negativity and nitpicks. I'm legitimately happy and excited for all the new features SotO will bring, why aren't you guys? Misery. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryou.2398 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 (edited) Cancel culture has become an ugly monster years ago, and the reality is great power comes with great responsibility as so many love repeating but never follow, however people claiming people just become jaded gw2 was meant to be an mmorpg and as mmos go allot of companies make bad decisions there is no denying vets getting the crap end of the stick allot of the time. Edited August 17, 2023 by Ryou.2398 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will.9785 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 (edited) The game has been on an overall downward trajectory since the layoffs (IBS rushed, reused assets, reused animations, EOD feeling incomplete) and some of the design choices for SotO (relics, season pass) are questionable. People have a right to be upset. They should do so in a constructive way but people are human and some people have a lot of emotions tied up in this game. Now me personally, I've been playing the game since launch but I've never played it less than I have in the past year. Some of that stems from a lack of content but I've played through content droughts before to a much greater degree than I have this past year. So what's different this time? I think it really stems from the impending changes and feeling like my progress is being taken away from me (relics) and I'm going to be forced to do daily chores to get things I used to get just for logging in. These aren't things I'm looking forward to, they are things I'm dreading. I shouldn't be feeling that way right before the launch of a new expansion, and for that reason I don't see myself playing this game much after SotO hits. The game has had many ups and downs over the years but for the first time I truly feel as though the game's best days are behind it and not ahead of it. The irony is the thing they added to increase player engagement (wizard vault) is going to be the thing that ultimately drives me away. Edited August 17, 2023 by Will.9785 7 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) On 8/15/2023 at 7:43 PM, HeliosMagi.9867 said: Every single time we get some new info about SotO, we get a flood of posts of people being toxic and angry about some small detail about it. Today we got more information about the Wizard's Vault, and I'm really excited about it. Pretty much everything about it is a straight upgrade from the daily system we have today. But then it seems like the entire playerbase wants to drown all excitement and hype of the new expansion under a flood of negativity and nitpicks. I'm legitimately happy and excited for all the new features SotO will bring, why aren't you guys? Elite weapons -> resold Runes -> repackaged/part resold Mount -> repackaged/resold Dailies -> repackaged/part resold Forums are a place to express your opinions/concerns/suggestions/problems with the game, it will always be more negative than positive because the players who are happy don't have a reason to be in the forums. Let's not forget one thing, changes come about from discussing problems, as little as anet tends to interact with their customers, there's still plenty of changes that have come about from feedback in the forums (yet plenty more they ignore). Glad you're happy with the expansion, but players have a right to voice their concerns on problems with it, particularly the legendary runes change which now will force those players to grind again for something they already had worked on, I don't even own those but I feel bad for those players. That's borderline scummy. I don't particularly like this practice anet has repackaging and reselling parts of the game they already charged for. Add new features, new maps, new systems, new skills, new traits, new elite specs, whatever, but don't resell parts you already sold in other expansions. Three highly confused pve players --> Edited August 18, 2023 by XenesisII.1540 6 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandala.8507 Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) It's funny how people are using a system overhaul for the game that is a net positive for the vast majority of players, is a necessary evolution of buildcraft in GW2, and that will only negatively impact a miniscule minority of players (who will, in all likelihood, be generously compensated in the future) to criticize this expansion. The biggest complaint about Secrets of the Obscure has pretty much nothing to do with the quality of Secrets of the Obscure. Will GW2 players be able to recognize this and stop raging over minutia on others' behalf? *whispered aside* probably not, but Find out next time on: The Guild Wars 2 Official Forums! Edited August 18, 2023 by mandala.8507 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum Moderator.3419 Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 Hi Everyone, I'm locking this thread as it's run its course. Regards. 2 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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