Silent Surf to break or not to break that is the question...

[HonesltlyX.7164]

So I've ran with this new fractal instance just a few times. Some groups say break the bosses bar. Others say don't.

I'm looking for some answers as to why in either scenario. What is exactly happening when we break the bar and why does there seem to be a disconnect between groups for how its run?

[Nimris.3781]

first of, instance is heavily bugged, thus it is inconsistent in its behaviour. because of that its hard to definte proper/best way to deal with it.  some issues:

1. if you break cc bar the at the very end, add/tether can still spawn
2. for whatever reason add can do tether even if there is no cc. also adds bug to the point of 3 simultaneous tethers outside of worldcleaver (this happens <66%)
3. adds should disappear after some time if you ignore them for long enough (ending mechanic) and after they disappear they shouldn't affect 33% phase ( but they sometimes do and you get guaranteed wipe - you kill 5 adds and you still wipe)
4. in other scanario you can end up with less adds in 33% world cleaver ( even just 1, because all other bugged) and you still pass the mechanic
5. also sometimes adds can do repeatedly tethers, making killing them pointless
6. phantasmagoria debuff (when you get tethered) should reduce your dmg done and taken, but seems to do nothing so there is no point in going to island and killing it
7. exposed debuff from cc bar is crazy short making ccbar not that attractive (despite anet sometime ago doing big update to unify all exposed debuffs...) it should last 10 seconds, not 3
8. there are more issues, some very specific, hard to list everything

we know that additional adds will interfere with 33/66% causing wipe thus 35%/70% cc are "a must". sadly it doesnt guarantee safety, just makes it much more likely to succeed. but 40% cc bar can be delayed by numbers mechanic and failing it can cause add to spawn during world cleaver phase...  or 35% cc may happen after 33% world cleaver etc.  also additional add can spawn on his own, because why not...

ideally you would want to break as many cc bars as possible to not deal with adds and get exposed debuff for 10 sec.  and if you fail cc, someone should do their add as he has debuff reducing his dps. that is after they fix mountain of bugs, but currently if exposed lasts 3 sec, phantasmagoria doesnt work and even if you kill add, he can do tether again than its hard to define any tactic for this mess

also due to extreme number of bugs, different people will have different experiences so its hard to come up with any general tactic and we end up with "lets pray it doesnt bugg too much"

so why there is disconnect? well...

 

[Ashantara.8731]

My CM groups always go by the simple rule: Break all defiance bars except 40%, which you only half-CC, then fully CC at 35%. Doing this daily, and in most cases on first try.

[TexZero.7910]

The people who are telling you not to break are exploiting a certian thing that i will not expand upon on the forums.

[Nephalem.8921]

Let me be the person who explains the issue since it wont get fixed this decade anyways.

After a failed cc adds on islands spawn. The debuff they apply is bugged and increases your outgoing dmg instead of reducing it by 50% so by not cc'ing you vastly increase group dps because anet can not code at all  or maybe this is even intended to help with killing the adds but since there is no punishment for not killing them who cares. Just let them live and enjoy dmg buff.

But now the fun part. Since anet is really really bad at coding like I mentioned letting them alive before 33% might cause bugs when some are still alive. That is why in my groups we usually cc at 70%, 40% and 35% and kill the adds before 40%. If some are still alive during 33% phase it can cause late tethers or even worse result in a single person having to kill 2 which will usually fail unless the player has some range to kill from mid platform.

Now in normal mode the failed 33% and 66% phases don't cause wipes so not cc'ing at all and just ignoring the phases in mid might be the best and fastest strategy.

[Cyninja.2954]

To add to what @Ashantara.8731 and @Nephalem.8921said:

Normal mode - doesn't really matter. The phases don't instant wipe if failed. You can stab, stunbreak, etc the fears if need be and heal through everything else.

As for CM:

This depends on experience, performance and familiarity with the fight. Ashantara already mentioned the 40% and 35% significance. You want to break 35% so you can burst to 33% without risking say the boss getting regeneration and bugging.

If your group is highly skilled and experienced with the fight, you can cc less the way Nephalem described. This does require proper positioning early on to not eat mechanics from the adds which spawn for not ccing 90, 80, 60, 50 and 45. Improper positioning will cause player loss far to early in the fight.

While going for the achievements, what the groups (guild groups, I helped out after getting my achievements) I was with did was:

- cc every breakbar until 50

- cc 35, if need be slow down on 40

This made the first 2/3 of the fight most consistent (for less experienced players with the fight, assuming damage will not be maximized). Then clear all adds before 35. After 33 ignore adds,  use no island safe spot between group splits for numbers.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Cyninja.2954