Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 (edited) ^ Thread title. Few things to note for anyone who doesn't understand what's going on here: As it stands today on release, there is absolutely no reason to use any other relic other than Antitoxin. It allows builds to drawback on the amount of dedicated cleanse they have, and either bring more DPS or more sustain vs. power. There is no better option for optimal power creep across the board for every class/spec, than this one relic. It is possible to become actually immune to conditions with Antitoxin. I mean like, actually invulnerable, as long as you aren't AFK. We do not have ways in SPvP to counter the strength of Antitoxin. In WvW there is access to large expertise bonuses, ect ect, much higher condi damage burst in general. But in SPvP we do not have the ability to soup up condi play like we can in WvW or PvE, to be able to counteract Antitoxin play. The appearance of Antitoxin with today's release will completely shut down all condi play. I'm talking completely. There will only be power builds from this point forward if Antitoxin is not nerfed or removed for SPvP. YES, despite the wording on the relic, it is indeed cleansing normally with no CD on the cleanses for the player wearing the relic, as the old version. Not sure if this is intended, but we did just have a few people run some tests to confirm this. But yeah, Antitoxin absolutely will need to be either nerfed or removed for SPvP. Devs paying attention should take this seriously. This will very quickly become a massively complained about balance issue by the end of the first 24 hours. ~ Heads up. Edited August 22, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524 6 2 5 18 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downstate.4697 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 And it ruins your ability to play condi ranger 2 2 22 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted August 22, 2023 Author Share Posted August 22, 2023 (edited) 22 hours ago, Downstate.4697 said: And it ruins your ability to play condi ranger It's a serious post. You're concerned with referencing my Condi Druid for lulz, but what you really should be concerned about is what this is going to allow Soulbeasts to do. Like right now people are complaining about Soulbeast performance already, but now with Antitoxin they will not be weak to condis and they will actually have no counters. They will exist in the pocket of a pure power meta, and they will be the strongest spec. Edited August 23, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524 3 6 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shion.2084 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 Speaking of Soul Beast.... uh did they do no PvP balance to it? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdawgie.1835 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Downstate.4697 said: And it ruins your ability to play condi ranger This is so petty lol. Wtf? Dont celebrate the destruction of builds. Edited August 22, 2023 by jdawgie.1835 3 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 (edited) Antitoxin rune? Srsly? There was no nerf for the obviously busted boar maul.... There is other things to write Essays about... They dont care about pvp... and its pretty obvious Edited August 22, 2023 by Sahne.6950 8 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted August 22, 2023 Author Share Posted August 22, 2023 Just now, jdawgie.1835 said: This is so petty lol. Wtf? I would say "it's assy". Would be a better description of the behavior. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagie.7612 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 does this mean that just pretty much every (former) rune is available in spvp now? cus lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdawgie.1835 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 1 minute ago, shion.2084 said: Speaking of Soul Beast.... uh did they do no PvP balance to it? Soul beast is fine... aside from this new information surrounding antitoxin. Everything has something to keep it in check. Trevors right - condi play keeps many builds in check with out condi we have a much larger actual balance issue. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted August 22, 2023 Author Share Posted August 22, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said: Antitoxin rune? Srsly? There was no nerf for the obviously buste boar maul.... There is other things to write Essays about... 2 minutes ago, jdawgie.1835 said: Soul beast is fine... aside from this new information surrounding antitoxin. Everything has something to keep it in check. Trevors right - condi play keeps many builds in check with out condi we have a much larger actual balance issue. People were upset about Soulbeast before, but they're gonna ragequit today until fix, when they see what Antitoxin on a Soulbeast does for its performance. But let's not turn this into a Soulbeast thread. This problem is much much larger than that. The appearance of that single suffix relic is going to remove condition based builds from play completely. They will no longer be anywhere in the realm of viability if Antitoxin continues to exist as is. This will remove like 50% or greater of the intra-class options & dynamic from viability. And it's not like "oh it's sort of not viable now" but more like "oh condis no longer deal damage at all ok". Mark my words, that's gonna be happening by the end of the day here. Edited August 22, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdawgie.1835 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 Just now, Trevor Boyer.6524 said: People were upset about Soulbeast before Just potatoes that cant get out of the way of burst. 1 minute ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said: when they see what Antitoxin on a Soulbeast does for its performance. Agreed though - condi is a needed counterweight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said: People were upset about Soulbeast before, but they're gonna ragequit today until fix, when they see what Antitoxin on a Soulbeast does for its performance. But let's not turn this into a Soulbeast thread. This problem is much much larger than that. The appearance of that single suffix relic is going to remove condition based builds from play completely. They will no longer be anywhere in the realm of viability if Antitoxin continues to exist as is. This will remove like 50% or greater of the intra-class options & dynamic from viability. And it's not like "oh it's sort of not viable now" but more like "oh condis no longer deal damage at all ok". Mark my words, that's gonna be happening by the end of the day here. I think you are missing a big factor, which is that condition application (via new weapons) was going to increase. Anti-toxin exists as a natural counter to the introduction of condition heavy builds which was bound to happen as a result of the expansion As for the bugs it has, if it does have bugs...so long as the skill is working as intended, it's intended effect is actually fine. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barabbas.8715 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 First PVP complaint thread of the new patch, oh yeah! Give it to me baby. Daddy needs your tears. 😭😭 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted August 22, 2023 Author Share Posted August 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said: I think you are missing a big factor, which is that condition application (via new weapons) was going to increase. Anti-toxin exists as a natural counter to the introduction of condition heavy builds which was bound to happen as a result of the expansion As for the bugs it has, if it does have bugs...so long as the skill is working as intended, it's intended effect is actually fine. We'll see how everyone feels about that by the end of the day. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 35 minutes ago, Downstate.4697 said: And it ruins your ability to play condi ranger Quick, my Berserker brethren, take this relic and roll Defense + Eternal Champion and become true immortals! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie.9143 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 lmaooo i don't wanna complain but good lord anet is bad at making games 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrollingDemigod.3041 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 So condi builds get finally removed from game after that bad patch that removed condi caps? Nice. Took far too long. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkle.4913 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 “Outgoing condition cleanses remove an additional condition. This can only affect an ally once every 5 seconds.” How is this busted…? This looks like a large sacrifice to get one additional cleanse on bear stance. 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youle.5824 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 this is a strong relic, for some spec, but for slb it wont change anything, they wouldn't even take it.. the bear stance is already enough cleanses for its duration and the build has no other cleanses. This will be way stronger on tools holo, 2 cleanses on f skills, vindi salvation getting 2 cleanses on dodge, inspi mes, scourge with cleanse on barrier trait... etc. Basically slb is one of the worst build to put it on... 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khenzy.9348 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 It has a 5s internal cooldown. You're overreacting. 6 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiyan.1704 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Downstate.4697 said: And it ruins your ability to play condi ranger Good. People need to get off of that bad spec already lol. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoWantsAHug.3186 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said: It's a serious post. This is about to become the most critical balance issue that the game has ever seen. You're concerned with referencing my Condi Druid for lulz, but what you really should be concerned about is what this is going to allow Soulbeasts to do. Like right now people are complaining about Soulbeast performance already, but now with Antitoxin they will not be weak to condis and they will actually have no counters. They will exist in the pocket of a pure power meta, and they will be the strongest spec. This is going to be an enormous game breaking issue that deserves a hotfix before anyone should even have to mention that it deserves a hotfix. why would slb take antitoxin when they can take one of the relics that gives even more damage? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 when they fix the cd i say keep it in. maybe increase cd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted August 22, 2023 Author Share Posted August 22, 2023 21 minutes ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said: why would slb take antitoxin when they can take one of the relics that gives even more damage? It doesn't need more damage. What it needs is condi cleanse to get rid of any weaknesses it once had. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted August 22, 2023 Author Share Posted August 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Funkle.4913 said: “Outgoing condition cleanses remove an additional condition. This can only affect an ally once every 5 seconds.” How is this busted…? This looks like a large sacrifice to get one additional cleanse on bear stance. READ THE BOLDED IN MY OP POST. Thanks. 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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