SottO shows how bad Rev core weapons are

[Shiyo.3578]

Gsword completely replaces Sword/Sword

Mace is meh, axe is meh. Optimal for condi but not good.

Staff is a 1 trick pony or healbot weapon, and you shouldn't really play healer rev because it gives up ALL damage to heal.

Hammer was nerfed due to a dead abandoned game mode, which is really dumb.

Shortbow is an amazing ranged power OR condi weapon, Greatsword is an amazing melee power weapon.

It's time to update Rev core weapons. I'm sure other classes(especially ele!) have this same exact issue with their awful core weapon selection.

[Gustaff.6581]

You are missing shield. Which is not a core weapon.

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

2 hours ago, Gustaff.6581 said:

You are missing shield. Which is not a core weapon.

Probably because they missed the shot with shield to be honest. For such a healing centric item it does little. We will have to see if Scepter brings something that actually makes using a shield useful, though I wish we were getting focus with scepter. Shield 4 just does healing and protection not really stellar since practically every build out there provides protection in the revs kit these days, and shield 5 is just a simplified personal block that has no secondary affect like other shield block effects.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Ravenwulfe.5360

[Shiyo.3578]

2 hours ago, Gustaff.6581 said:

You are missing shield. Which is not a core weapon.

I ignored shield because it's a completely useless weapon.

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

There needs to be some rebalancing you want to be swapping between greatsword and sword/sword for power for instance as far as damage, but there are issues. For instance sword 3 its start up cast time, the fact that it doesn't give you the evasion a lot of the times it's suppose to and its range is questionable. The damage on it is iffy, at best. There is definite tweaks that are needed.

Of course anyone with eyes would know hammer would get overshadowed once shortbow became a core kit option. I think it's silly to have thought otherwise. Hammer just needs reworking period.

As far as healing as a revenant, I disagree that rev shouldn't be healing. I think we need more healing tools however, and vindicator definitely needs something otherwise no one will want it. Even in a WvW setting despite the level of healing brought.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Ravenwulfe.5360

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

Swords just need a slight increase in damage on 2/4/5 and then they’ll stay relevant in the same way mace/axe stays relevant for condis. This would be an easy change and bring a bit more parity between S/S and GS. 

[Mell.4873]

Sadly Revenant is one of the least played classes so expecting a rework anytime soon is unlikely. I mean look how long Ranger Sword got left in the state it did, basicly since launch so it took them 10 years to make it viable.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Mell.4873

[ArthurDent.9538]

Shield is fine, it just fills a niche most people in this game don't care about, self sustain.

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

2 hours ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

Shield is fine, it just fills a niche most people in this game don't care about, self sustain.

It fills a niche that revenant isn't hurting for. Might be good for tanking if there wasn't other weapons that offered something similar and let the herald stay mobile.

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Sadly Revenant is one of the least played classes so expecting a rework anytime soon is unlikely. I mean look how long Ranger Sword got left in the state it did, basicly since launch so it took the 10 years to make it viable.

This is why a rework is called for because its play time is not good right now.

[Bankrotas.8215]

If they do buff weapons, they should do it in flavour of Trident, where legends affect weapon effects a bit.

[Shagie.7612]

7 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

Of course anyone with eyes would know hammer would get overshadowed once shortbow became a core kit option. I think it's silly to have thought otherwise. Hammer just needs reworking period.

 

hot take:

i don't think any of the hybrid weapons like shortbow or ranger's axe are good for the game's overall pvp balance and would happily make changes for both it and hammer to make them condi/power choices, rather than shortbow being an all-around weapon

[Aeolus.3615]

My class is now Rangerald   even on WvW... that damage....

added weapon sigil to boost damage on KD target and i am all set

My weapons actually become  Short bow/gs  ._.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Aeolus.3615

[Shiyo.3578]

6 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

are good for the game's overall pvp balance

PvP isn't a supported game mode.

PvE being ruined due to PvP(hi hammer, shiro, malyx) is a real issue. PvP is an afterthought and needs to stop making the game less fun for PvE players(the main game mode).

[Warscythes.9307]

Vast majority of elite weapons for every single class is better than core weapons in their specific niche. This isn't really something new for every class. I don't think weapons need to be buffed, I think currently power creep is incredibly out of control and we should be nerfing instead in general for every class in terms of damage.

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

1 hour ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

PvP isn't a supported game mode.

PvE being ruined due to PvP(hi hammer, shiro, malyx) is a real issue. PvP is an afterthought and needs to stop making the game less fun for PvE players(the main game mode).

The game modes are separated these days. What changes are PvP centric can be made without effecting PvE.

[ArthurDent.9538]

9 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

It fills a niche that revenant isn't hurting for. Might be good for tanking if there wasn't other weapons that offered something similar and let the herald stay mobile.

It fills a niche no other weapon on rev can fill which is a bit of defense on an offhand (even 1 handed weapon in general considering how unreliable unrelenting assault is defensively) weapon. Just because basic pve is simple enough you generally don't care for more defense doesn't mean everything is that way.

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

20 minutes ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

It fills a niche no other weapon on rev can fill which is a bit of defense on an offhand (even 1 handed weapon in general considering how unreliable unrelenting assault is defensively) weapon. Just because basic pve is simple enough you generally don't care for more defense doesn't mean everything is that way.

There is really no point that immobilizing yourself in PvP scenario is a good thing. In PvE immobilizing yourself isn't really good either. Greatsword 4 (Imperial Guard) is far better since  not only does it block damage it builds it up in True Strike, aka a secondary function that Shield 5 does not have. Staff 3 (Warding Rift) not only blocks damage but it blinds those who hit you meaning you get another free no damage attack after the block has ended.

All Shield 5 (Crystal Hibernation) does is root you, and gives you a small heal regeneration that can easily be overpowered. And the fact it's a selfish heal goes completely against the idea behind Glint in the first place. This is a terrible power, PvE or PvP, and offers nothing that isn't accomplished by other weapons in the toolkit of revenants. It might be redeemable if it did not root you, and if there wasn't far superior blocks in the revenant toolkit alone. Never mind other shield users having secondary functions with the block function, like breakbar power.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Ravenwulfe.5360

[ArthurDent.9538]

30 minutes ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

There is really no point that immobilizing yourself in PvP scenario is a good thing. In PvE immobilizing yourself isn't really good either. Greatsword 4 (Imperial Guard) is far better since  not only does it block damage it builds it up in True Strike, aka a secondary function that Shield 5 does not have. Staff 3 (Warding Rift) not only blocks damage but it blinds those who hit you meaning you get another free no damage attack after the block has ended.

All Shield 5 (Crystal Hibernation) does is root you, and gives you a small heal regeneration that can easily be overpowered. And the fact it's a selfish heal goes completely against the idea behind Glint in the first place. This is a terrible power, PvE or PvP, and offers nothing that isn't accomplished by other weapons in the toolkit of revenants. It might be redeemable if it did not root you, and if there wasn't far superior blocks in the revenant toolkit alone. Never mind other shield users having secondary functions with the block function, like breakbar power.

You mention rev's 2 other blocks which are tied to.... Two-handed weapons. It should be extremely obvious the advantage of running mace + shield on a condi build for an on demand block without having to swap to extremely low damage staff or gs for the next 10 secs. Even on power builds you know what is better than having 1 block? Having 2, and with shield you can get that without having to lock into the still very low damage and passive staff. Shield has niches that other off hands can't fill and it fills them reasonably well.

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

1 minute ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

You mention rev's 2 other blocks which are tied to.... Two-handed weapons. It should be extremely obvious the advantage of running mace + shield on a condi build for an on demand block without having to swap to extremely low damage staff or gs for the next 10 secs. Even on power builds you know what is better than having 1 block? Having 2, and with shield you can get that without having to lock into the still very low damage and passive staff. Shield has niches that other off hands can't fill and it fills them reasonably well.

Or you can run GS and Staff and be covered two ways including cleansing and healing as well as the best breakbar function in the game.

[ArthurDent.9538]

I addressed that, staff damage sucks. Run sw+sh for better damage on that swap. Or run gs+staff for the benefits you listed just depends on what you need.

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

2 minutes ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

I addressed that, staff damage sucks. Run sw+sh for better damage on that swap. Or run gs+staff for the benefits you listed just depends on what you need.

And? I mean shield sucks entirely has no breakbar power, and neither does mace. There's a reason a lot of rev builds use staff because a condi cleanse is more powerful than a ridiculous rooting block. You are trying to put the cart before the horse and trying to base it on one little thing that isn't really that true either.

[ArthurDent.9538]

48 minutes ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

And? I mean shield sucks entirely has no breakbar power, and neither does mace. There's a reason a lot of rev builds use staff because a condi cleanse is more powerful than a ridiculous rooting block. You are trying to put the cart before the horse and trying to base it on one little thing that isn't really that true either.

The closest rev has to a meta build in spvp, at least prior to the new expansion, uses mace+shield. The shield pick is not arbitrary, the extra defense shield gives is more value than the offensive options of axe or sword a large percentage of the time; axe is worth considering in some matches. The reason pve'ers don't appreciate what it brings is nearly all pve encounters are too simple and easy for self defense tools like shield to be needed. That doesn't mean they fail at doing what they intend, it means pve needs more intensive encounters.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

9 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

My class is now Rangerald   even on WvW... that damage....

added weapon sigil to boost damage on KD target and i am all set

My weapons actually become  Short bow/gs  ._.

So you just made a bow beast but worse?

[Shagie.7612]

9 hours ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

PvE being ruined due to PvP(hi hammer, shiro, malyx) is a real issue. PvP is an afterthought and needs to stop making the game less fun for PvE players(the main game mode).

Shortbow isn't used for power builds in pve anyways, lol
Unless you mean open world or casual content in which case... who cares? Not even anet balances pve around that. You could continue to use a shortbow with changed numbers as a power build if you wanted. In the same way you can open world stuff on any build that way.

Or go hammer since now it won't be an inferior power weapon to one that comes from what is a condition based elite spec. It needs changes anyways regardless of whether or not you do anything to shortbow.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Shagie.7612