Relics will reduce build diversity

[Vecta.3475]

Relics are a clandestine rune nerf.

All my characters have been nerfed, since there is no way to compensate for the loss of my 6th rune bonuses with these trash relic effects.

[idpersona.3810]

I haven't even bothered to equip relics on most of my characters. I've got 90+ relic boxes sitting in a shared inventory slot.

[Sjentra.3409]

Looking at the core relics; there's like 2; maybe 3 that aren't complete garbage; especially for dps.
I don't think there's more than maybe a dozen i(f you squint real hard) 6th rune affects that actually made it to a relic.

It's even worse when you look at the Runes and how they can't even follow the pattern (even a small language model could follow the pattern)

like Deadeye - 25 Power/ 35 Ferocity/50 Power/ 65 Ferocity/100 Power/125 Precision?!?
or Holosmith - 25 Power/35 Vitality/ 50 Power/ 65 Vitality/100 Power/ 125 Precision?!?
or Pack - 25 Power/ 5% Boon Duration/50 Power/10% Boon Duration/100 Power/125 Precision!?!

 

[Doggie.3184]

I would have rather kept the old 6x relic bonuses. All of the ones I was hoping to/looking forward to using are gone, pretty much none of them carried over~ they're all new stuff. Such as 25% movement speed, which is replaced by one that gives higher speed boost if you have Swiftness. Which is neat and all but the point of the 25% bonus speed ones were to use them on builds that had little to no Swiftness access. And I really wanted to use the Lich Rune pet on a Rune set with better stats and now there're no pet summon Relics at all.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Doggie.3184

[Linken.6345]

44 minutes ago, Doggie.3184 said:

I would have rather kept the old 6x relic bonuses. All of the ones I was hoping to/looking forward to using are gone, pretty much none of them carried over~ they're all new stuff. Such as 20% movement speed, which is replaced by one that gives higher speed boost if you have Swiftness. Which is neat and all but the point of the 20% bonus speed ones were to use them on builds that had little to no Swiftness access. And I really wanted to use the Lich Rune pet on a Rune set with better stats and now there're no pet summon Relics at all.

Then take a rune that have the movment speed on it thats why there is no relic.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Surging

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Cavalier

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Snowfall

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Traveler

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

On the PVE side, one of the things I'm learning is that there is no real rune choices anymore.  If you're running power, you run Scholars, and if you're running condi, you run Trappers.  For anyone not in the know, Trappers has been buffed and is quite insane now (gives 15% global duration and 300 condi damage).  I've put them onto nearly every condi build I have now, and I'm nearing the duration cap even without the aristocracy relic.  Other than meme Griever builds and Condi Virtuoso, there's little reason to pick any other rune.  On the power side, you could make a reluctant argument for Deadeye Runes, since they give 5.95% crit chance instead of the final ferocity bonus from scholars, but realistically we've been building ourselves to the crit cap for awhile now, so the only reason to go for Deadeye is for the sake of not using Scholars.

On the relic side, there's very few options to go with for DPS.  Power-wise it is Thief or bust, since all other options are just plain worse or very inconsistent.  Fireworks could be better in theory, but it is a big hassle to stagger all long cooldowns since it doesn't stack in duration.  Support-wise... it doesn't matter much what you pick.  All the buffs last for 3 seconds, and do things counter-intuitive like giving boon duration after granting all the boons.  Just go with Monk.  Condition wise, if you don't own SotO you might as well not equip a relic.  Aristocracy is alright if you're on a build that inflicts a lot of weakness and vulnerability, but there's a lot of condi builds in the game that don't... or they're already duration capped in their specific damaging condition.  Almost everything else is tied to elite skill usage.  I've been putting Mirage relics on most of my condi builds, just to make forced dodging less painful.  Though if you do own SotO, both Fractal and Akeem are solid options.

[Pifil.5193]

8 hours ago, idpersona.3810 said:

I haven't even bothered to equip relics on most of my characters. I've got 90+ relic boxes sitting in a shared inventory slot.

Brilliant, glad to hear they stack and are account bound! After looking at the list of Relics I'll be doing the same.

[Vecta.3475]

3 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Then take a rune that have the movment speed on it thats why there is no relic.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Surging

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Cavalier

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Snowfall

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Traveler

What kind of defense of relics is this? The entire premise of adding relics was to separate 6th slot effects from the rune attributes in order to increase build options. What you have described is exactly the opposite. Relics have not achieved anything other than screw the meta, and further reduced choices by not having ~60% of the 6th slot effects even implemented!

This relic thing is a lazy sham nerf to runes. It could have been so good, but instead its not even halfway there.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Vecta.3475

[leila.7962]

The funniest part of the relics system is that Anet said that they decided to pull that off to give players more variety of builds. All runes 6th effects were cut off to become relics. Only 40 of the 6th bonus remained with some modifications, and from those that remained, a hand few are decent/usable. A lot of them tie their effect to specific classes perks or skill types  that will obviously exclude all the other classes / specs, which goes against their primary idea.

Also, their descriptions are super vague, in a classic Anet style of writing things.. like for example, the Relic of the Reaper: "Chill nearby enemies after executing a shout skill." .. Ok, it chills but, for how long? Is there an internal cooldown?  Does it scale with my current condi damage and condi duration? 

How are we supposed to know before choosing it? It's kind of important you know. It surely felt like a rushed decision.. this change affected so many things, and not in a positive way as they were expecting. They should have left relics to a future update, when they would have spent more time thinking of it.

Edited August 25, 2023 by leila.7962

[Keefe.3821]

The majority of these relics are trash and the other half are bugged. Many unique relics like trapper and scrapper are missing. This was just some half assed kitten Anet rushed and it shows. 

 

 

[Trejgon.9367]

3 hours ago, Vecta.3475 said:

What kind of defense of relics is this? The entire premise of adding relics was to separate 6th slot effects from the rune attributes in order to increase build options. What you have described is exactly the opposite. Relics have not achieved anything other than screw the meta, and further reduced choices by not having ~60% of the 6th slot effects even implemented!

This relic thing is a lazy sham nerf to runes. It could have been so good, but instead its not even halfway there.

The point was to separate "wildcard" bonuses on 6th slot from runes and put it into relics. 6th bonus was then supposed to be changed to have it increase stats.

I guess AN went (at least for now) with interpretation that flat increase of movement speed is stat increase and not "wildcard" effect.

as for why so many runes didn't have their wildcards implemented into relics, I would presume, can be wrong tho, that conversion took some workload to perform and they didn't have time to do all of them in single update (which is why the quarterlies were announced to expand on both core and soto relics)

and yes, alot of runes "wildcard" effects were crap in the first place which is why nobody used them.

[Linken.6345]

5 hours ago, Vecta.3475 said:

What kind of defense of relics is this? The entire premise of adding relics was to separate 6th slot effects from the rune attributes in order to increase build options. What you have described is exactly the opposite. Relics have not achieved anything other than screw the meta, and further reduced choices by not having ~60% of the 6th slot effects even implemented!

This relic thing is a lazy sham nerf to runes. It could have been so good, but instead its not even halfway there.

It is not a defence of relics att all so I understand your confusion.

But Anet said that movement speed was a stat not a bonus that would transfer over to relic.

2 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

Snip

as for why so many runes didn't have their wildcards implemented into relics, I would presume, can be wrong tho, that conversion took some workload to perform and they didn't have time to do all of them in single update (which is why the quarterlies were announced to expand on both core and soto relics)

Snip

Yea in the roadmap they only said more expansion relics only, did they update it somewere and say we would get more core relics too?

Edited August 25, 2023 by Linken.6345

[idpersona.3810]

7 hours ago, Pifil.5193 said:

Brilliant, glad to hear they stack and are account bound! After looking at the list of Relics I'll be doing the same.

Yea. I wasn't thinking that they would. I just moved the box into shard inventory on one of my parked characters and then when I switched to another to put it in the bank I was pleasantly surprised to see that they stacked.
I believe they are salvageable? If so, then I will just do that once the legendary relic opens up. I won't bother to ever equipping some of my characters with relics until then.

[Lucy.3728]

On 8/23/2023 at 3:07 PM, gkoogz.3089 said:

because everyone will choose Theif. +5% dps simple as.

Still not attractive enough to play the thief. Remains storage char for fish and fishing stuff.

[Doggie.3184]

13 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Then take a rune that have the movment speed on it thats why there is no relic.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Surging

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Cavalier

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Snowfall

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Traveler

Notice anything those runes have in common? They're not good stats. XD

I wanted the speed bonus on stats that I actually wanna use. Just like how I wanted the Lich pet with runes that aren't bad stats. I never at any point thought they were going to just delete all 6x bonuses and design whole new things till it hit me in the face when I opened the relic box.

[Linken.6345]

47 minutes ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Notice anything those runes have in common? They're not good stats. XD

I wanted the speed bonus on stats that I actually wanna use. Just like how I wanted the Lich pet with runes that aren't bad stats. I never at any point thought they were going to just delete all 6x bonuses and design whole new things till it hit me in the face when I opened the relic box.

Sad to hear it, I saw ruby say movement speed was going to be a stat (so on some runes) and seeing how they changed both Zephyrite and Thief rune bonus into a relics kinda spelled how the rest of the relics would go.

[Dreams.3128]

On 8/24/2023 at 2:53 AM, Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

They removed other variants of damage boosting and useful utility effects that were interesting. Spellbreaker's 7% bonus damage against boonless foes. 5% damage while under the effect of Might. Even the 25% movement speed is just gone.

No it ain't. Traveler still has movement speed on the 6th slot. 

[Nabbut.7480]

I am approving of Relic of Nightmares on my Reaper. It has buffed his elite shout to much longer CC lock so now I am losing less health to dangerous packs like in Verdant Brink. It added to my build in meaningful way.

[Gorem.8104]

Rest in peace Undead Runes, you were loved while you lasted 

[Zebulous.2934]

I suppose they could bring back the summon effects as some sort of skill.  I just don't know how eager they are to change the UI.  The method for obtaining such skills would also be an issue.

Making them elite skills wouldn't make sense. Make them the default special action if story or event isn't using that slot?

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

On 8/25/2023 at 1:43 AM, Vecta.3475 said:

What kind of defense of relics is this? The entire premise of adding relics was to separate 6th slot effects from the rune attributes in order to increase build options. What you have described is exactly the opposite. Relics have not achieved anything other than screw the meta, and further reduced choices by not having ~60% of the 6th slot effects even implemented!

This relic thing is a lazy sham nerf to runes. It could have been so good, but instead its not even halfway there.

Exactly. The sixth rune was supposed to provide stats. I want a movement speed relic.

[Trejgon.9367]

On 8/25/2023 at 4:30 PM, Linken.6345 said:

Yea in the roadmap they only said more expansion relics only, did they update it somewere and say we would get more core relics too?

sorry for late response, was out of the home for the weekend - I have rechecked and indeed on the written roadmap the table mentions expansion relics specifically, unsure where my memory pulled the rest of core relics bit from 🤔

[Ultima.5280]

Relics need a big balancing to be more specialized and situationnal.

Some are too strong and playable on most build while most of them are just weaker options.

 

Should be : "Ok I can play trap, I can play Stance, but I need 3 of them to make it really good, but Stance is better for openworld while trap is great for AOE damage. Oh the third one is really good for one target damages"

Currently : "this one is better than everything else"

I would like to see some option with downsides like : (condi relics exemple I have in mind)
- condition damage increased , lose some concentration, lose some precision -> Do my build need crit to apply condi ?

- big condition damage increased, condition duration decreased -> Do I prefer big bursting condition in the first 10 seconds and don’t improve much later

- Every 5 condition you inflicted, You get a +5% breakbar damage buff for 10 seconds, stackable up to 10 -> become a big CC damager if you’re condi, but not improving your condition damage by much

 

My idea is to give more relics that offer adaptation for players : Ok you lose 2-5% dps but your CC / DPS / Bursting /survivability are affected in a good way

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Ultima.5280

[The Boz.2038]

On 8/25/2023 at 2:14 PM, Keefe.3821 said:

Many unique relics like trapper . . . are missing.

Good!

[kurogane.9681]

On 8/25/2023 at 10:30 PM, Linken.6345 said:

Yea in the roadmap they only said more expansion relics only, did they update it somewere and say we would get more core relics too?

Pretty sure the core relics, those 6th bonuses, we previously had will be locked behind SotO expansion in future updates and renaming them as expansion relics. For players like me who doesn't want to buy an incomplete expansion yet will be stuck with those crappy and mostly useless freebie relics.

Edited August 28, 2023 by kurogane.9681