How the new daily system in Wizards Vault reduced my enjoyment of GW2 [Merged]

[gousgou.5438]

25 minutes ago, Donari.5237 said:

They've posted that in an upcoming update (this Tuesday?  I don't recall the exact date) they will be adding another option to the daily tab so there will be a bit of choice.  It's maybe not as much as players were hoping, but if it also grants AA then they likely don't want to up that spigot too much.  For comparison, the weekly tab asks you to do 6 out of 8 options but you can get the extra AA from doing the other two, so it's not capped like in the old system.

They should put in way more than +1. The best change would be to offer something like 9 total options divided as evenly as possible amongst the types of content you select (for example 9 PvP ones, 4 PvP + 5 PvE ones, 3 PvP+4 PvE+3 WvE ones etc).

 

Taking away the choices we had is a huge problem, there were instances I had to spend 2 hours for 1 daily task (WvW defender daily). With the old system I would have redirected to something else within 10-15 mins.

And that cooldown in changing categories should go out of the window at the same time. No reroll nonsense (that would smell even more mobile game)! 

Edited September 1, 2023 by gousgou.5438

[Tiamat.8254]

Funny thing, the original release has no login rewards. I know I didn't give a crap back then, and hasn't changed now. The game is fun. I play to have fun. The login stuff is just a bonus. All the daily quests have been completable, but yes some have required more patience than others. But I wouldn't stop playing because of this. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Tiamat.8254
Typo

[Razadune.9260]

6 hours ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

The "long way around" minidungeon for daily lol....

Yeah.    

I like the Wizard's Vault. I don't mind the new daily system, either...or, I wouldn't if it had some minor changes to it to make it more player friendly.

#1 on the list being that you need to have another option, or a re-roll of a daily objective like "Long Way Around". Preferably both; there should be more than 4 options, and a re-roll should be available that'll give you a random different one if you get objectives you despise. Like today's minidungeon, which is a crapshoot with other people around at the same time. The bugged dailies are frustrating, but a daily like this minidungeon with crowds in it is so much like being trolled it's almost worse.     

     

[Doggie.3184]

I been daily AP capped for many many years and mostly ignored dailys other than the ones for WvW pots when I felt like it (RIP). These have forced me to do them again which is ehhh but the rewards have been pretty worth it so far. Some rewards are pretty bad though too; you'll likely run out of good rewards eventually and the AA caps at 1300  forcing you to spend them so.... 

Like for example the new Skyscale collection sucks as someone who's unlocked it the old way and I don't really wanna do it. That 300 AA for doing it I can probably live without since I already got all the big ticket items at this point. The rest is all gold and clovers you can earn in-game.

The 3 daily limit does indeed suck a lot, as no way to skip painful ones like the bugged Crypt (that was thankfully removed) or WvW Defender. If they fix that it'd be fine. Otherwise it feels too forceful, making us do what they want us to do without choice.

Also as much as I hate Spvp and enjoy the mode burning in chaos for what it's done to my class in other modes it's certainly doing that a bit too well right now since innocent unprepared adventurers are being thrown into it against their will cuz they didn't toggle Spvp off and can't change it till daily/weekly reset. So we get people in unranked/ranked without even having builds equipped and no experience trying to rush through.

 

[Daniyyel.3428]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

If daily was THAT important it was already a pretty big indicator that maybe it was time for a pause.

This.

[EzyQzy.8620]

I myself have not logged in much after finishing the story.

Nothing is fun in SotO, even EoD was not fun. I abandoned EoD when getting the turtle was such a waste of time. Even when turtle strike requirement was purchasable, I still did not bother with the turtle 😆

The most fun I had was PoF, that is were GW2 peaked IMO. Now, I feel I'm just passing time just doing things. GW2 needs some major GOOD changes for me to consider playing it again like I used to.

Anyway, I might try Baldur's Gate 3, I heard that is a great game 😄

[Zok.4956]

5 hours ago, Senlin.7168 said:

Fortunately, these issues can easily be fixed.

I don't think Anet will fix the core issues with Wizards Vault as these are intentional changes and therefore not issues at all from Anet's point of view.

Of course there will be minor fixes. The fact that the Daily gets an additional selection point is just a workaround so that the buggy content added to the tasks does not have to be fixed. It's not about getting a good result and fixing the bugs, it's about getting the result Anet intended with the least amount of effort.

However, it makes absolutely no sense that there are now two weekly systems for WvW at the same time, some of which have overlapping and some different tasks, some you can add to your watchlist, and some you can't. etc. etc. Presumably this is a result of rushed implementation and/or where the developers just don't have enough experience with the existing game (maybe they were new to GW2 and worked on a battlepass game before?).

GW2 has always tried, unlike other games, to give players the freedom to achieve a goal in multiple ways. It didn't always work out, but it was a core concept of GW2.

Anet is now taking this freedom away from the players (e.g. with the daily, with the potions, with the artificial 1300 Astral Acclaim limit...) in order to exercise more control over what and when players have to play if players want to continue to achieve their goals. And what and when you then have to buy with the earned currency. Some players like this change. I don't.

It probably makes sense from an economic point of view (finer control of "player retention", fomo, optimizing the visibility of shop sales, etc.). I think we haven't reached the end in this regard.

And so that the outcry doesn't get that big (at least among some of the players who are here because GW2 was different than typical MMOs), the changes are sweetened with a little bit more rewards/loot.

[pengefinchess.8452]

Bye! Can i hav ur stuff?

[crepuscular.9047]

the new dailies arent so bad, takes no more than 15min max to get done, so not sure what OP's complaint is about... i do them on of my (4) alt accounts too, been getting all of them done within the first hour after reset

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

When changes to the daily system is what makes you leave you really weren't "playing" the game. By now there should be a merged thread of people complaining that "hurr durr daily bad I leave game".

[Danikat.8537]

I agree with the people saying if you're down to only doing dailies it's probably time to take a break.

I'm in a similar position with my other MMO. They haven't changed the daily system recently, but I've reached a point where all I'm doing is logging in to do the dailies (even though I don't really need the currency from them) and a few other basic daily tasks then logging out again. I think that means I need to make a choice: either I force myself to ignore the dailies and do other stuff instead to break the habit, or I take a break from the game and come back to it when I feel like doing something that doesn't amount to routine chores.

I haven't decided yet which way it's going to go, partially because the rest of my life has been kind of chaotic recently so I haven't had brain space to make a proper decision (also that means I want something simple and predictable to do in my free time) but I don't want to be stuck in that cycle for too long because it's ultimately a waste of time - if I'm not really playing the game I'm not using the rewards from doing the dailies so it's pointless to do them.

[Thron Stal.9367]

😁

On 8/26/2023 at 1:17 AM, CoyrmGreybeard.1746 said:

First, this isn't a ragequit, GW2 is still worth playing, but the changes significantly reduced my enjoyment and the devs should know why. I'm a software developer with decades of experience and I know the value of well reasoned customer feedback. Here's mine to help a game I love.

First, the new system has less choice. In the old system I could log on, and have a dozen things to choose from. I might not choose WvW as often as PvE, but I regularly did, and often ended up playing for a lot longer than I'd intended. The new system I have to pre-register for my "mode", and if I include one I play less frequently it comes at the expense of choices in a mode I'm more likely to play. So you penalize your players for keeping an open mind and trying new stuff, stuff they might discover they enjoy and give them another reason to log on.

Second, I have purchased HoT, PoF, and EoD for myself and my entire family, and we play together. I also encourage friends to join, and help them to get established. In the old system we all got the same dailies and could do them together, in the new system we're getting different objectives in areas we both own and both have completed events in. I get how you wouldn't give an event in an expansion a player doesn't own, but if we own the same expansion give us both the same objective in it. If we can't do dailies together, there is less incentive to log on as a group. Research shows that today people log into games to play with people they know, why would you introduce a change that makes it harder to play with your friends?

Third but related to the second, why exclude new players from the dailies? People without a level 80 character don't have access to dailies under the new system, while the old system gave them under-80 alternatives. It was a much better design. Why lock out new players, they are exactly who you should be giving the most encouragement to!

Fourth, and also related to the second, don't give me a daily I cannot access. The old system was really good about offering things that might be difficult (i.e. many of the jumping puzzles) but at least I could get there. Yesterday I go an objective in an are you had to complete a collection to get into. I exited without doing my dailies. That's just frustrating.

Fifth, the point system is confusing. I like the flexibility to choose more than just 2 gold, and I like that I don't get nothing if I complete 2 of the 3 dailies, but the old system gave strong and immediate reinforcement and did give you smaller rewards for each step. But the new system is at best poorly explained. Even after going to the wiki and reading the article, I feel a bit unsure about the new system. Do seasons reset my points? Do points expire? Are "legacy rewards" really going to stick around? Are the prices going to stay the same of go up after the honeymoon?

Sixth, the new system feels like it rewards a lot less. The daily login gave nice stuff every week, just for logging in, and there was incentive to do more once you did log in. I haven't done the math, but it feels like the reward for just logging in is much less than the old rewards for just logging in every day. Again, I haven't done the math, but it feels like the reward for doing 3 dailies every day for a month is also a lot less. If I took my reward in gold for doing a login and 3 tasks on the list every day for 3 months, in the old system I'd have 180 gold, 60 mystic coins, 100 laurels, 6000 luck, a dozen gem store items, a dozen transmutation charges, 3 celebration boosters, 3 chests of loyalty, 6% gold find, and more. What would I have in the new one? Is it even close?

And the proof is in the pudding. In the last few years I've missed only a couple dozen days of doing dailies, mostly because of vacations or computer problems. But I haven't finished my dailies even once since the expansion came live. I still like the game, and I still feel like logging in, but the desire to log in, and the sense that I'm missing something easy if I skip, is significantly reduced, and that can't be good for the game overall.

I'd love to see an official response to this or to some of the similar posts I've seen, in many games I play or have played the feeling is the devs (or at least the decision makers) just don't care what the players think, and I'd love to see evidence to the contrary here.

Thanks for your time!

 

Because, they do what they want regardless of feedback. Or they ask a small niche of people in some obscure zone what they think. You are absolutely right in my mind.  

[Senlin.7168]

2 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

Of course there will be minor fixes. The fact that the Daily gets an additional selection point is just a workaround so that the buggy content added to the tasks does not have to be fixed. It's not about getting a good result and fixing the bugs, it's about getting the result Anet intended with the least amount of effort.

Wait. You mean when they told us smaller expansions would let them pay more attention to the game's core systems, that didn't include fixing old bugs?

I feel so betrayed...

[Witch Engine.2305]

I find myself logging in less too, thankfully BG3 is out, Starfield and Armorcore 6 is out or coming out soon. I might go play those games while Arenanet figures out the type of game GW2 is going to be and then I'll revisit it then. I'm confident that Arenanet is going to take this feedback seriously, and it's good to take a break anyways. That's a great thing about games with no subs.

[TheArtOfMouts.7468]

On 8/25/2023 at 1:17 PM, CoyrmGreybeard.1746 said:

First, this isn't a ragequit, GW2 is still worth playing, but the changes significantly reduced my enjoyment and the devs should know why. I'm a software developer with decades of experience and I know the value of well reasoned customer feedback. Here's mine to help a game I love.

First, the new system has less choice. In the old system I could log on, and have a dozen things to choose from. I might not choose WvW as often as PvE, but I regularly did, and often ended up playing for a lot longer than I'd intended. The new system I have to pre-register for my "mode", and if I include one I play less frequently it comes at the expense of choices in a mode I'm more likely to play. So you penalize your players for keeping an open mind and trying new stuff, stuff they might discover they enjoy and give them another reason to log on.

Second, I have purchased HoT, PoF, and EoD for myself and my entire family, and we play together. I also encourage friends to join, and help them to get established. In the old system we all got the same dailies and could do them together, in the new system we're getting different objectives in areas we both own and both have completed events in. I get how you wouldn't give an event in an expansion a player doesn't own, but if we own the same expansion give us both the same objective in it. If we can't do dailies together, there is less incentive to log on as a group. Research shows that today people log into games to play with people they know, why would you introduce a change that makes it harder to play with your friends?

Third but related to the second, why exclude new players from the dailies? People without a level 80 character don't have access to dailies under the new system, while the old system gave them under-80 alternatives. It was a much better design. Why lock out new players, they are exactly who you should be giving the most encouragement to!

Fourth, and also related to the second, don't give me a daily I cannot access. The old system was really good about offering things that might be difficult (i.e. many of the jumping puzzles) but at least I could get there. Yesterday I go an objective in an are you had to complete a collection to get into. I exited without doing my dailies. That's just frustrating.

Fifth, the point system is confusing. I like the flexibility to choose more than just 2 gold, and I like that I don't get nothing if I complete 2 of the 3 dailies, but the old system gave strong and immediate reinforcement and did give you smaller rewards for each step. But the new system is at best poorly explained. Even after going to the wiki and reading the article, I feel a bit unsure about the new system. Do seasons reset my points? Do points expire? Are "legacy rewards" really going to stick around? Are the prices going to stay the same of go up after the honeymoon?

Sixth, the new system feels like it rewards a lot less. The daily login gave nice stuff every week, just for logging in, and there was incentive to do more once you did log in. I haven't done the math, but it feels like the reward for just logging in is much less than the old rewards for just logging in every day. Again, I haven't done the math, but it feels like the reward for doing 3 dailies every day for a month is also a lot less. If I took my reward in gold for doing a login and 3 tasks on the list every day for 3 months, in the old system I'd have 180 gold, 60 mystic coins, 100 laurels, 6000 luck, a dozen gem store items, a dozen transmutation charges, 3 celebration boosters, 3 chests of loyalty, 6% gold find, and more. What would I have in the new one? Is it even close?

And the proof is in the pudding. In the last few years I've missed only a couple dozen days of doing dailies, mostly because of vacations or computer problems. But I haven't finished my dailies even once since the expansion came live. I still like the game, and I still feel like logging in, but the desire to log in, and the sense that I'm missing something easy if I skip, is significantly reduced, and that can't be good for the game overall.

I'd love to see an official response to this or to some of the similar posts I've seen, in many games I play or have played the feeling is the devs (or at least the decision makers) just don't care what the players think, and I'd love to see evidence to the contrary here.

Thanks for your time!

 

This is 100% the same feeling and experience I got with that new system.

Seem they built it to screw up people with multi accounts, without thinking of other -normal- players.

[NaramSin.2693]

The difference between when the creators of the game were still working at Arenanet and the current situation in which the developers are simple players (at best) is abysmal, it is clear that they do not really understand all the consequences of the massive changes they make, they are forced to make constant changes on the go, it is absurd that they do not understand the impact of their decisions in the game.

I like the idea of the wizard vault but the way to get the currency is senseless, the old dailies gave ample freedom based on the style of play and the preferences of each one, now once you have chosen the origin of the dailies you are forced to do only those, if you can't, if they are buggy, if for some reason you don't want to or can't, you lose the entire daily, it's a significant improvement, no doubt about it ...

Today for example my last daily was in WvW, "partecipate in 1 defense event in wvw", I spent an hour doing everything in an open squad with a commander, and nothing, in the end I got the daily when trying to attack SMC owned by BLU their Blob arrived and they massacred us, it wasn't our castle, we didn't defend anything yet I got the daily, after an hour of trying, this thing was already buggy in the wvw weekly, with that courage also insert it in a mandatory daily? A real nonsense...

Edited September 2, 2023 by NaramSin.2693

[Fleabite.7528]

Having just given up both my dailies and weeklies on my Steam account [though completing it after a lot of effort on my main], here's some heartfelt feedback:

• A big plus on the rewards. These are varied, and I can choose what I want when I want them. Top marks. 
• As many, many have said, for the tasks themselves the lack of actual choice is killing enjoyment. Sometimes I just can't do the dailies. Now for the first time I can't finish the weeklies. That demotivates me, and I'm less likely to play the game at all. 
• Having a mix of PVE, PVP and WvW can be disastrous. PvP paths are FAR easier than the other two. Might as well just turn off PVE and WVW because of the real risk of bad options [and no, devs, that's not a reason to make PvP harder!]
• A big part of my game enjoyment after 9+ years on my main account is building up my alts. The old system was great for that, particularly for map exploration and story. But now we have almost no map exploration by region, or expansion, and that adds to my demotivation. 
• At some point, I may simply give up both dailies and weeklies. That's not me being dramatic - just a reflection of my need to spend my fairly limited time on what brings value to me in the game, and is enjoyable. 

How to fix this? Listen to your players. Give us multiple choices each day [not just one extra]. Restore player agency. Stop playing god on what I can and can't do. 

[Avelione.6075]

I like the changes in the daily system except that to complete the "daily daily" we are forced to go to WvW and PvP. I enjoy WvW every once in a while, PvP  sometimes..

My point is: not everyone like or even want to go and play PvP, WvW every SINGLE DAY becasue they are forced to in order to complete the daily. This is not fair - especially that for years we had that choice!

Please add one extra PvE daily element so the ones of us who don't feel like playing competitive games can have a choice of something calmer!

Thank you!

 

(and pls mods don't give me warnings because I used caps lock where i deemed it  to be important word, thank you as well)

 

PS:

(and I know it kinda sounds lame but I wanted to add that I'm autistic and deal with anxiety and some days it's just much too stressful to play PvP or even WvW. I have a feeling there are more people who feel that way too. I'm actually not a bad PvP player ... but many may not realize  how some people feel much too emotional about their gameplay, even if they don't want to.

through years I've found great source of comfort in GW2, so I hope getting one additional choice for a daily so at least we can skip PvP would be nice ;3)

Edited September 3, 2023 by Avelione.6075

[crepuscular.9047]

ehhh... there is a cog wheel icon on the top left hand corner to change the what game mode you want to get for dailies, which will take effect upon the next daily / weekly reset

Edited September 3, 2023 by crepuscular.9047

[Parasite.5389]

you can at any point click the cog in the upper left of the interface and deselect the content you don't want to play.
it was also the first screen you saw when you first opened vault.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wizard's_Vault#/media/File:Wizards_Vault_initial_selection.jpg

[Randulf.7614]

Not only can you change it yourself, they are adding an extra pve daily in a couple of weeks

[Efar.8153]

.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Efar.8153
pls delete - too negative

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

Oh for kittens sake. My new weeklies are in, and include completing a fractal (which I don't do), doing a jumping puzzle (which I don't normally do) and completing the Dragon's End meta (which requires a pretty significant time investment compared to almost every other meta, with no guarantee of success).

I'm pretty much done at this point. If ANET don't fix this properly, so I'm not being forced into gameplay that I DON'T WANT, then me and my wallet will find another home. They certainly aren't getting another penny from me until we get confirmation that they understand the problem properly and have a solution in mind that will fix it properly.

Even if the DE meta can be done by completing something completely different (we've seen that bug already, after all) then it's still not good enough. Players are supposed to be able to play how they want, and the new daily system was supposed to offer rewards for playing, as opposed to just logging on. At the moment, it offers rewards for "playing exactly the way that we want you to, with no deviation". That's kitten, and needs to change.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

I just restarted playing the game yesterday, finished the last part of EoD and started the first story mission of SOTO. Well, I like the overhaul but there has to be more flexibility. I generally dislike the fact that they choose for you 4 parts and it is across PvP,  PvE and WvW instead they let you choose the first time you login. So many people never do anything else than PvE. Rewards look cool though and I always found the login rewards a bit cheap.

[Hemi.5267]

Kinda like the new Daily's... 

The old ones were boring and very....very stupid.

Besides that... you don't have to do them. And if you feel you do need to because you achieved everything else, it's time for a different game. 

"I won't play GW2 anymore because of the new Daily system" <----this is a very weird thing to say...

Games don't last forever. And getting mad about a daily system change is very weird.

ps:

Fracs are easy content and JP's too. The Meta's could be problematic, but I never had problems finding groups... Anyway thats just me I guess 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Hemi.5267