How the new daily system in Wizards Vault reduced my enjoyment of GW2 [Merged]

[Sylvyn.4750]

21 hours ago, DarcShriek.5829 said:

Sorry, I don't understand this attitude.  Spend it and earn some more.  Unless you want to take a break from dailies and weeklies.  Why stop just because you've maxed your points.  There's got to be something available to spend it on.

Here's a real world analogy...let's say my day job pays $60/hr for 8 hours, leaving me 4-5 hours to kill before bed.  Do I really want to take on a 2nd job at $12/hr?  Yes, it's more money in my pocket, but at a significantly lower rate, or do I want to do something fun with my time because life is short?  Some might enjoy the challenge and the pay isn't important, but others might like a break after their day job and do something less structured...it's completely up to the individual.

[xersues.7189]

The new system has INCREASED my enjoyment of the system and I think the OP was just reacting to initially seeing it. There's too many "it feels" and "I haven't done the math" that sounds like a reaction not good feedback. After over a month of this system, here's the feedback I would give instead:

1. Daily/Weekly activities need to continue to be tuned and needs to be completable by everyone even without the expansion packs. It doesn't effect me, but I do appreciate the tuning of unfun or broken activities being fixed/moved around
2. Reward system UI needs an overhaul and better information architecture. It's a grid of a bunch of choices and a carousel. This feels very "MVP" to me and should be reorganized by Category and rarity: Skins, Legendary Materials, Account Unlocks, Character Unlocks, etc. Use the carousel to always show high value items you want to point out in the grid, not the only way to find show cased items.  
3. Get rid of that stupid build storage reward. Literally no one uses those. Build storage = Trap , Build Template = Great.

I am curious if they will incrementally keep adding Special rewards every patch or if that was a limited incentive. That surprised everyone and I think anyone that has played is more than flush with rewards. It only takes me <15 minutes to do a daily and maybe 2 hours for the weekly over multiple play sessions. Already excited for the next drop in early Nov. 

At the end of the day ANET has the data to see if the utilization is good, but they do need feedback on the UI and enjoyment. I'm sure they can proxy the success and have hypothesis to what the issues harming utilization and fun are, but they need to hear it from players to make decisions.

Edited October 4, 2023 by xersues.7189

[DarcShriek.5829]

2 hours ago, Sylvyn.4750 said:

Here's a real world analogy...let's say my day job pays $60/hr for 8 hours, leaving me 4-5 hours to kill before bed.  Do I really want to take on a 2nd job at $12/hr?  Yes, it's more money in my pocket, but at a significantly lower rate, or do I want to do something fun with my time because life is short?  Some might enjoy the challenge and the pay isn't important, but others might like a break after their day job and do something less structured...it's completely up to the individual.

No, your analogy doesn't work.  Not even close.  It's more like saving up time off from your job.  You've got the max amount of days off and still refuse to take a day off even though you'll have it earned back in a month.  So you throw away money, because you insist on having your bank full.  If your AA is full, burn some of it.  You get 5 pts a day just for logging in.  So spend 10 AA and in 2 days you've got it back.  There's just no reason to be concerned with saving it.

Edited October 4, 2023 by DarcShriek.5829

[nobleboivin.4102]

I agree with the folk who think the daily system needs more attunements.   The weekly jumping puzzle this week is the new Kaening one which is a pain to do.  Not every does it and the ones that do, do it either require you to have a p2f  device which not everyone has, or demand gold because heaven forbid they use Mesmer portals to help others get to it.

Which is something I've noticed a lot.  Folk are doing fewer jumping puzzles than they used to.

Edited October 4, 2023 by nobleboivin.4102

[vares.8457]

4 minutes ago, nobleboivin.4102 said:

I agree with the folk who think the daily system needs more attunements.   The weekly jumping puzzle this week is the new Kaening one which is a pain to do.  Not every does it and the ones that do, do it either require you to have a p2f  device which not everyone has, or demand gold because heaven forbid they use Mesmer portals to help others get to it.

Which is something I've noticed a lot.  Folk are doing fewer jumping puzzles than they used to.

There are always people standing there with a tag, just join them and use teleport to a friend. But you don’t even need to do it if you don’t want to. There are 8 weeklies, you only have to do 6.

[nobleboivin.4102]

I get that but port to friend doesn't exactly grow on trees either >< and I'm a player that has a lot of problems doing jumping problems due to coordination issues.  The other 2 weeklies left for me are kind of a pain too but even aside from that.  maybe throw in some jumping puzzles and mini dungeons from the base game for instance.  They always seem to have the Canthan dungeons and jumping puzzles on the weeklies and dailies for me

Edited October 4, 2023 by nobleboivin.4102

[Solvar.7953]

Even some dailies are fairly abandoned.  Today (yesterday) I had spirit vestibule mini dungeon as a daily.  Do to killing champions, it really needs multiple people doing it.  Despite looking multiple times, and even in LFG to see if anyone was advertising, I pretty much never saw anyone else there.  So scratch that one off from being able to complete.

Instead, I did the daily activity, which is content I would otherwise not play.  Fortunately, it was southsun survival and I joined an instance  (as a wisp) about 1 minute before someone actually one, so that wasn't that bad.

Maybe spirit vestibule was abandoned because in terms of choices, people would just rather do the activity - at least you know that worse case you spend 15 minutes doing nothing, but will get credit (the other 2 dailies were really easy - dodges & combo skills, so presumably everyone who had the same set I did chose those 2 also)

 

[Ashen.2907]

I find the new dailies boring. They are completed more quickly and with less effort. They are far less engaging because they are done in mere moments without trying. Dailies used to give me goals (often if not always) where now they are not even noticed during a gameplay session. The activities themselves are usually meaningless in their ease of being overlooked while being completed. They lack substance. 

That said, I can just take the rewards, which are very much an improvement over the old system, and move on without thinking about the dailies as a system of activities meant to drive engagement with content....but what a missed opportunity.

[Sylvyn.4750]

21 hours ago, DarcShriek.5829 said:

No, your analogy doesn't work.  Not even close.  It's more like saving up time off from your job.  You've got the max amount of days off and still refuse to take a day off even though you'll have it earned back in a month.  So you throw away money, because you insist on having your bank full.  If your AA is full, burn some of it.  You get 5 pts a day just for logging in.  So spend 10 AA and in 2 days you've got it back.  There's just no reason to be concerned with saving it.

Your original statement was in response to Kharmin's statement of having bought everything desirable, so at that point, why bother continuing to earn more and spend more if one doesn't want to?  Are we pack rats that have to scoop up every last morsel we can find?  If one sees the world that way, no wonder it's screwed up...it's gone to the Skritt!

Edited October 5, 2023 by Sylvyn.4750

[Schimmi.6872]

18 hours ago, Solvar.7953 said:

Even some dailies are fairly abandoned.  Today (yesterday) I had spirit vestibule mini dungeon as a daily.  Do to killing champions, it really needs multiple people doing it.  Despite looking multiple times, and even in LFG to see if anyone was advertising, I pretty much never saw anyone else there.  So scratch that one off from being able to complete.

Instead, I did the daily activity, which is content I would otherwise not play.  Fortunately, it was southsun survival and I joined an instance  (as a wisp) about 1 minute before someone actually one, so that wasn't that bad.

Maybe spirit vestibule was abandoned because in terms of choices, people would just rather do the activity - at least you know that worse case you spend 15 minutes doing nothing, but will get credit (the other 2 dailies were really easy - dodges & combo skills, so presumably everyone who had the same set I did chose those 2 also)

 

As I can't remember spirit vestibule as part of my dailies from yesterday, I guess the problem here is, that there are many different versions of the dailies and so the rarer gamemode/expansion-combinations will sadly not have enough people.

[Solvar.7953]

That is perhaps another problem - the new sets of dailies are unique for what choices a player chooses + what expansions they have.  So where as before, everyone (more or less) had the same dailies, there are probably 30 combinations now (6 combinations for pve/wvw/pvp to choose from, and 4 different expansions, a well as not having an expansion at all) if I did my math right.

I wouldn't think my combo is too rare - EoD + PvE only.  But it is also very odd talking with guildmates who have completely different set of weeklies to work on, so it isn't even like we can work on those which might require groups or take enough time that grouping up can be fun.

 

[Ashantara.8731]

I agree that they should have kept the mechanic of a player's freedom to choose from all game modes equally without limitation.

But the claim that this new system was in any way "FOMO" is absolutely ridiculous, since it was made very clear that rewards will never vanish after a period of time.

[Rauderi.8706]

These rewards need a faster refresh. 

And hey, maybe add some Black Lion keys next go around! The actual chest costs keep dropping in price, and they'll be 2c like they were before if more keys don't go out.

[Solvar.7953]

It seems like the new system largely gives the rewards of the old system, just in a different fashion (you have to choose them).  Given that the old system didn't give out BLKs, and that is likely one of the bigger money makers for Anet, would seem unlikely to get added.

Though maybe with a purchase limit of 5, it might make sense.

 

[Futa.4375]

There was a very small chance to get a Black Lion Key from the Chest of Black Lion Goods, I got several from it.

[evilcat.6817]

I think that the system could be improved:

By default you roll 13 objectives. 4 from each category, 1 is login. You need 4 to get big daily reward. After you do 5, all others are canceled/gray/ you cant do them that day. You can select off modes, to avoid visual clutter, but there is no benefit for it. That way you still cant farm daily reward more than now, but there is more versality and freedom of what to do. With weekly rewards it is similar, you have like 3x8 objectives, but need 6 but when you do 8 you are done for a week, but you can mix different types.

Reasoning: I am enerally interested in pve, but may consider pvp or even wvw. So if there is always a wide range of maybe do pve or maybe wvw whatever floats your boat people will be more inspired to look into other modes, not only their favoirte.

There is a problem right now, that i generally select pve, so there is very little reason for me to even look into pvp. Other than curiosity.

Edited October 9, 2023 by evilcat.6817

[Vayne.8563]

On 8/26/2023 at 5:11 PM, Frostea.7451 said:

If the weeklies take 7 hours to do as someone said here, then Im not sure they should be part of the calculation. What before could be done in 5-10 min now asks for 7+ hours? I not sure I will complete them even once. So for me new system is way less rewarding.

Also agree with the other points. I will add one thing. Why cant I track my dailies with the achievment tracker anymore? Why? I liked that. Now it replaces the achievments Im working on, when it doesnt have to.

You can track your dailies, you click on them. It replaces whatever else you're tracking till your done then those come back. It works the same way it used to do, but dailies and weeklies being tracked supercedes whatever else you were tracking until you've either done them or untracked them.

[han.6753]

still dont like the new Daily weekly. but i know they not gonna bring back the old one. everyday im log-in and see the new Daily/weekly i really want log-out. but i play this game since beta

Achievements experience very bad to me. everytime play Achievements im just hate but some Achievements is Have to done to get inportant thing for game. the new Daily weekly feel like doing Achievements everyday. disgusting game experience for me. my friend leave this game for this thing. this online game still my top 1 but...

[Freezy.4952]

While the rewards are better, the UI is limited as it requires a lot of clicks to spend enough point.
The cap, while I understand the WHY, is just annoying as it gets in the way of removing the notification dot.

I only have like 15 to 30 minutes a day and I now no longer engage at all with PvP, and severly reduced my WvW as I simply can't risk not finishing the dailies.
It's stupid of me I know, it's just 10 AP, but I have been completing my dailies every since I started many years ago.

They did add the 4th mission slot, which might have allieviated the trouble I initially faced with not being able to find, let alone slay opponents in WvW.
I simply don't feel comfortable experimenting and risking not being able to complete the missions.
I also don't want to risk forgetting to set it back and have all kinds of things I simply cannot complete.

Reduce rewards per item completed, increase the reward for the daily and weekly box, unlock all the options.
That way we can have variety in what we choose to do, with some rewards.

Also please just complete the chests if there is space in the currency.
And improve the shopping experience by either making it an NPC with the NPC buy X of Y interface in social zones.
Or make it a proper shopping cart like the Fixit-Store in satisfactory, just toss in and add up, press purchase, get all the stuff.
Or custom amount option for the infinite rewards. As buying gold in small bundles then having to click even more to unpack those bundles...

It should also not hide Achievements when you track a astral quest.

TLDR;
Less clicks, more choice & freedom == more engagement with the game itself instead of reward tracks and FOMO.

[Vayne.8563]

44 minutes ago, Freezy.4952 said:

While the rewards are better, the UI is limited as it requires a lot of clicks to spend enough point.
The cap, while I understand the WHY, is just annoying as it gets in the way of removing the notification dot.

I only have like 15 to 30 minutes a day and I now no longer engage at all with PvP, and severly reduced my WvW as I simply can't risk not finishing the dailies.
It's stupid of me I know, it's just 10 AP, but I have been completing my dailies every since I started many years ago.

They did add the 4th mission slot, which might have allieviated the trouble I initially faced with not being able to find, let alone slay opponents in WvW.
I simply don't feel comfortable experimenting and risking not being able to complete the missions.
I also don't want to risk forgetting to set it back and have all kinds of things I simply cannot complete.

Reduce rewards per item completed, increase the reward for the daily and weekly box, unlock all the options.
That way we can have variety in what we choose to do, with some rewards.

Also please just complete the chests if there is space in the currency.
And improve the shopping experience by either making it an NPC with the NPC buy X of Y interface in social zones.
Or make it a proper shopping cart like the Fixit-Store in satisfactory, just toss in and add up, press purchase, get all the stuff.
Or custom amount option for the infinite rewards. As buying gold in small bundles then having to click even more to unpack those bundles...

It should also not hide Achievements when you track a astral quest.

TLDR;
Less clicks, more choice & freedom == more engagement with the game itself instead of reward tracks and FOMO.

Considering most days I complete my dailies faster now than I used to, I'm not sure what you're on about.

[Solvar.7953]

I do agree that most PvE dailies now are faster than the old system.  Which does then follow, if they are so fast to do, what is the issue of presenting all the choices?  Some players have stated that  'players will just choose the fastest set', but if the current set right now is pretty fast, I don't see how that creates any problem.

I had chosen WvW + PvE the first week, and quickly changed.  If you get kill X enemy players, it can be a real crapshoot on how fast, if it all, it can be done.  So while in the past, I did a mix of WvW & PvE (depending on time I had, what they were, etc), now I just do 100% PvE as it is a reliable set.  As such, I venture into WvW less than before.  Maybe that is the intention - get those casual PvE players out of WvW.  But is also means there are likely less players to go to WvW for other players to kill, make zergs, etc.

 

 

[evilcat.6817]

I have similar experience that i switched to 100% pve, as it is my favorite content, and i want to run it anyway. It is not bad for me, as the task are generally not horrible, and i can do them by playing normally. However if Arena wanted more ppl to try pvp or wvw, well it will not work that way.

I am not complaining, overall it works fine. Also being forced to run pvp when i really dont want, sounds bad. Just giving feedback.

Edited October 11, 2023 by evilcat.6817

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Solvar.7953 said:

I do agree that most PvE dailies now are faster than the old system.  Which does then follow, if they are so fast to do, what is the issue of presenting all the choices?  Some players have stated that  'players will just choose the fastest set', but if the current set right now is pretty fast, I don't see how that creates any problem.

I had chosen WvW + PvE the first week, and quickly changed.  If you get kill X enemy players, it can be a real crapshoot on how fast, if it all, it can be done. 

You're asking "why" and then continue saying that you'd still aim at picking the easiest/fastest. So... yeah, that's still the reason and you seem to be aware of it?

16 minutes ago, evilcat.6817 said:

I have similar experience that i switched to 100% pve, as it is my favorite content, and i want to run it anyway. It is not bad for me, as the task are generally not horrible, and i can do them by playing normally. However if Arena wanted more ppl to try pvp or wvw, well it will not work that way.

Technically, if they really wanted that, we'd have 1pve + 1pvp + 1wvw  objective (with maybe 1 of pve/wvw/pvp more, based on our choice, so you'd be able to skip just one of the modes). So it's not like they couldn't do it, they wanted to give you choice without overloading it with fast/easy options every single day and looks like that's what they did.

Of course until proven otherwise (by anet, in the form of adding more daily options). 🤷‍♂️ 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Ashen.2907]

13 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Considering most days I complete my dailies faster now than I used to, 

Yeah, that is one of my biggest issues with it too.

[Solvar.7953]

Under the old system, where I had all the options, I'd often do WvW options that were slower than PvE options, because I wanted the WvW rewards (now removed anyways), and I was fine with that.  Some nights, when I didn't have a lot of time, sure, I'd choose the fastest option.

Now because WvW may throw options to me which are quite slow or hard to get, I just stick to PvE, and I don't think I've had a set yet that would take more than 5 minutes.  And some of the PvE options actually work really well in WvW (dodges, combo skills, killing vets).  It is hard to imagine that if all game mode options were available, that players would start saving a large amount of time by doing the fastest option, because the fastest option is pretty quicky.

I suppose where this may make a difference would be the WvW and PvP players, who right now might get tossed an option that is hard to do or take a while, and then see they have a fast PvE option.  So I guess maybe that would drain some players from that activity - though the counter is, those same players might very well be choosing 100% PvE anyways, knowing they can get it done in under 5 minutes, and then hop into WvW/PvP once done with those dailies.  Which I'm not sure if what was really intended.

Regardless, I consider this a fairly significant downgrade in terms of choice, and have never seen a really good rationale for it.  Prevent players from doing fastest dailies?  Maybe, but as said above, if you choose PvE, that set is going to be very fast regardless.