How the new daily system in Wizards Vault reduced my enjoyment of GW2 [Merged]

[ProtoGunner.4953]

1 hour ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

Oh for kittens sake. My new weeklies are in, and include completing a fractal (which I don't do), doing a jumping puzzle (which I don't normally do) and completing the Dragon's End meta (which requires a pretty significant time investment compared to almost every other meta, with no guarantee of success).

I'm pretty much done at this point. If ANET don't fix this properly, so I'm not being forced into gameplay that I DON'T WANT, then me and my wallet will find another home. They certainly aren't getting another penny from me until we get confirmation that they understand the problem properly and have a solution in mind that will fix it properly.

Even if the DE meta can be done by completing something completely different (we've seen that bug already, after all) then it's still not good enough. Players are supposed to be able to play how they want, and the new daily system was supposed to offer rewards for playing, as opposed to just logging on. At the moment, it offers rewards for "playing exactly the way that we want you to, with no deviation". That's kitten, and needs to change.

Lol. You don't do anything in the game, so you don't deserve these rewards. Your argument 'play what they want'. So if this is true you're fine that someone has to press the jump button 1000 times and getting the monthly reward. Sorry but there is stuff to do and don't come with ultra turbo idiocy casual stuff like doing only simple events.

[Recless.6427]

I like the Wizard's Vault and the ability to choose my reward. I enjoy doing the dailies, however as I am currently in LW season 4. I find it frustrating that when the dailies include content from SoTO, I cannot complete them. Well, tbf I could, however I don't want to skip over IBS and Dragon's End, start a completely new story just so I complete the dailies. Just because I have bought the latest content, does not mean that I am there yet. I will get there eventually lol. 

[CoyrmGreybeard.1746]

On 8/25/2023 at 4:49 PM, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

I think you are also missing the 30 AA chest for doing your dailies? Rewards are a lot higher than you calculations.

btw I agree on all your other points. Earning dailies, doing them with friends and family, all much worse.

You are correct, I was missing the daily chests, thank you! I hadn't successfully done a daily at that point, I've done a few now. So reworking the numbers, the old system was only about twice as good for my playstyle. If I play as I did for 28 days under both systems, the old gave me 56 gold, 2000 luck, and a bunch of other items listed below. The new system gives me 1766 AA, 28 gold (from the daily chests, thanks for pointing that out), and 1400 luck (again, from the daily chests) and just under 1800 AA (5 login, 30 for 3 dailies, and 30 for the daily chest per day) to buy the difference.  Note that with the difference in gold being 1 G per day it can all be purchased at the discount rate, another difference from my original calculations.

So spending all 1766 AA, I'm still short by a celebration booster, a piece of exotic gear, and 4 store items (and I *love* the black lion salvage kits) and 2% gold find, which would cost 2000 AA, more than the entirety of what I earned in the 28 days!

I could do more work to get more rewards, but that's always the case. I could have done daily fractals for a lot of rewards. I could have joined ranked PvP, but I don't like it. So saying "yeah, but you left weeklies out of your calculation" misses the point - I'm comparing the rewards for my playstyle under the old system and the new system, and adding weeklies to the mix would be incorrect.

Anyway, for those interested, here are the revised numbers. And thanks again to Mistwraithe and others for (politely!) pointing out my omission, I appreciate both improved accuracy and the intelligent discourse.

28 days with 3 dailies old system (assumes Obsidian and Clovers from Loyalty)
item	qty	Cost per new	Running total	Days new	Notes
Mystic coins	20	9	180	2.769230769
Laurels	35	10	530	8.153846154
Luck	600	0.12	602	9.261538462	2000 from old, 1400 from new for 28 days, difference of 600
Gold coins	28	6	770	11.84615385	The old system gave 56, the new gives 28 over 28 days for a difference of 28, all purchasable at the lower rate of 6 AA per gold.
Tomes of knowledge	10	8	850	13.07692308
Transmutation charges	3	8	874	13.44615385
Bag of Craft Mats	1	32	906	13.93846154	A Large Crafting Bag costs 8 and is worth 1/4 what an old Bag of Crafting Materials was worth
Bag more Craft Mats	1	40	946	14.55384615	LCB = 1/5 BMCM
Chest of Loyalty Clover	7	60	1366	21.01538462
Chest of Loyalty Obsidian	8	50	1766	27.16923077
Chest Loyalty gold find %	2	1000	3766	57.93846154
Celebration booster	1				not available
Gem store items	4				i.e Black Lion Salvage kits, not available
1 exotic equipment	1				not available

[CoyrmGreybeard.1746]

On 8/25/2023 at 4:51 PM, Wheezy.2846 said:

You get celebration boosters for weeklies, 40 more laurels for weeklies, you get ascended gear options instead of exotic. You get gem store items if you buy them, including options you didn't get before. Again skins if you want them, let's take the 1,000 essence and swap the griphon skin for $20usd of gems converted to gold. How about the legendary starter kit with a full gift of might or magic?  Yes, if you do the bare minimum of just logging in, don't do the dailies and weeklies and special stuff, it's worse. If you do, it's way better. You cutting out and not counting 2/3 of the new stuff because it's not exactly the same stuff isn't a great comparison.

I'm comparing rewards for my playstyle, which did not include weeklies, and also did not include buying skins with gems. I don't doubt that for people with different playstyles the comparison would be different, but it would be incorrect to include them in my calculation as my stated goal is to show how it affects me and the people I play most with. And limiting the calculation to the rewards for the same work is exactly what makes it a great comparison for people with my playstyle. I appreciate that you and people like you get more, but that doesn't encourage me or my friends to play the game.

In fact, after a week and a half, our playtime is down to about 40% of what it was under the old system. We're just not logging in every day anymore. 

[Astralporing.1957]

4 hours ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

Oh for kittens sake. My new weeklies are in, and include completing a fractal (which I don't do), doing a jumping puzzle (which I don't normally do) and completing the Dragon's End meta (which requires a pretty significant time investment compared to almost every other meta, with no guarantee of success).

Notice, that the primary reason why DE meta mostly succeeds nowadays is because most players aren't doing it. Making it a weekly, and thus pushing a lot of players into it is a guaranteed recipe for a disaster.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

5 hours ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

Oh for kittens sake. My new weeklies are in, and include completing a fractal (which I don't do), doing a jumping puzzle (which I don't normally do) and completing the Dragon's End meta (which requires a pretty significant time investment compared to almost every other meta, with no guarantee of success).

I'm pretty much done at this point. If ANET don't fix this properly, so I'm not being forced into gameplay that I DON'T WANT, then me and my wallet will find another home. They certainly aren't getting another penny from me until we get confirmation that they understand the problem properly and have a solution in mind that will fix it properly.

Even if the DE meta can be done by completing something completely different (we've seen that bug already, after all) then it's still not good enough. Players are supposed to be able to play how they want, and the new daily system was supposed to offer rewards for playing, as opposed to just logging on. At the moment, it offers rewards for "playing exactly the way that we want you to, with no deviation". That's kitten, and needs to change.

Good thing you don't have to do all the weeklies.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

I did my weeklies in about an hour today. The fractal took me 5 minutes. I did uncategorized  at tier 2, because that was a quick join with a party of 4 already in the LFG. Istan with a utility active gave me 2 weeklies in 10 minutes (100 awakened and 100 enhancement kills, Kamadan was active). While waiting for the Shatterer I did the jumping puzzle and identified half a stack of gear. I was an event short of 10 after Shatterer so I did the first one I ran into. Didn't need to do that last one because I was already at 6/8. Hardly any effort at all for 730 AA. That's 11 full dailies worth of AA in less than 1 hour. Not things I'd usually do but well worth a little diversion.

If I find the will to sit through Dragon's End this week I'll end with 8/8.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Manasa Devi.7958

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

52 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Good thing you don't have to do all the weeklies.

You do if you want all the limited resources that the design ANET decided on gives you. If you only do 6 weeklies, you are are giving up nearly a thousand resources over the season.

If you only needed 6 and got all the resources for those, so that the other 2 gave nothing, it would be better. But not having to choose which game mode you wanted to lock yourself in then having 24 options to choose from (8 from each category) would be even better.

It's almost as if your sarcastic reply was worthless, and completely missed the point of the complaint.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

31 minutes ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

You do if you want all the limited resources that the design ANET decided on gives you. If you only do 6 weeklies, you are are giving up nearly a thousand resources over the season.

If you only needed 6 and got all the resources for those, so that the other 2 gave nothing, it would be better. But not having to choose which game mode you wanted to lock yourself in then having 24 options to choose from (8 from each category) would be even better.

It's almost as if your sarcastic reply was worthless, and completely missed the point of the complaint.

You miss out stuff every moment you're not doing the exact optimal thing you could be doing at the time. Missing out a mere 7% of the rewards an 11 week season can give you is nothing to get worked up about.

[Gardavil.1762]

I respect the opinions of everyone that plays GW2, you are all a part of my gaming family here, no offense is intended towards anyone, especially the Devs, the Staff of Anet, the Investors... I just don't agree with how they changed the game design with this latest expansion.

I mentioned this in another thread but will repeat it here... When I had a choice on what I wanted to do on dailies I enjoyed my freedom to choose and played the game several days a week, PvE open world yes, but I could pick and choose and made the game work for me.

I repeat... I made the game work for me.

Now I log in maybe once a week, I look at the small list of Dailies and most of the time none of them interest me. Why? Because they include content I wasn't interested in doing before to be honest. Example: Defeat 4 champion bosses... I'm terrible at gaming, why would I choose to get stomped and take a dirt nap multiple times? Some say "what about the weeklies? What about them? I didn't choose them. I can not make the game work for me as I used to be able to do.

I repeat... I cannot make the game work for me now as before.

So time for math... I enjoyed the game before because we had choice on what content we could do to earn rewards: +1. Because I enjoyed the game I played often: +1. Because I played often and enjoyed the game I saw value in spending money on the game, thus benefiting Anet: +2 (them and I benefited). Total 4.

Now we don't have a choice in what we need to do to earn rewards so I don't enjoy the game as I did: 0. Because I don't like the lack of choice and because I don't enjoy the game as before I no longer desire to log in much: 0. I don't enjoy being told exactly what content I must do to earn rewards (with no choice to choose alternate), and since because of this I don't play as often as before, I no longer see value in spending money with Anet; Total: 0

"There many other fish in the sea".

Anet, the game is yours, do with what you will, but in my own case you lost my desire to play GW2 and financially support it.

(no I am not a multiboxer all hurt about login rewards, I did enjoy them but I don't even claim the login rewards most of the time now... my desire is to see choice added back into the "Dailies" system, and weeklies and rest as well).

Edited September 4, 2023 by Gardavil.1762

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

50 minutes ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

You do if you want all the limited resources that the design ANET decided on gives you. If you only do 6 weeklies, you are are giving up nearly a thousand resources over the season.

If you only needed 6 and got all the resources for those, so that the other 2 gave nothing, it would be better. But not having to choose which game mode you wanted to lock yourself in then having 24 options to choose from (8 from each category) would be even better.

It's almost as if your sarcastic reply was worthless, and completely missed the point of the complaint.

I've already missed out on... ~200AA this season due to some weeklies not looking to interesting, I'm counting this week's DE for that number. It's not the end of the day. By the end of the season you'll have more than enough AA to buy every limited item in the shop including the junk ones as well.

[Hemi.5267]

Quote

 Example: Defeat 4 champion bosses...

If you love the game so much you would know that there are tons of small events in central Tyria that spawn champions (Terra Carorunda Waypoint, Blazeridge Steppes, Champ worm on the left) that are about the same strength as a vet. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Hemi.5267

[zigzag.8159]

with the old daily atleast i could pick 3 out of like 6 options for me now i have 4 options and have to do all 4 to get the daily reward. it feels more and more a chore and so i do less and less

[azorean.1850]

if it reduced the enjoyment of the game then you are playing it wrong

[idpersona.3810]

Spirit Vestibule sucks. Some days I really miss the old daily system. This is one of them.

[windyweather.1238]

Anybody else complained that the Wizard Vault is Booorrrrrring compared with the old system. I used to look forward to Bounties. But no. Just Combo finishers - which now that I have figured out take exactly 30 sec to do. And then there's the recurring Spirit Vestibule MiniDungeon that I spent 20 min trying to get past the 2nd safe spot. No FUN AT ALL.

Sure, the commenter says, I can do go hang out at bounties.... But with no incentives like the dailies any more I'll bet it's a ghost town there. Also which one. The dailies for bounties put everyone in the same map with a Apple looking to lead us to smash the big bad boss bounty.

Also, now the weeklies are 6 out of 8 for the big reward. But dailies are 4 out of 4 with that stupid MindiDungeon keeping me out of the extra reward. Used to be I could always skip the jumping puzzles, which I don't particularly like. But nope not any more. 4 out of 4 sucker.... No big chest for you today.

Boooorrrrrring...

[bossdonut.1938]

todays mini dungeon sucked and is the least fun ive had playing. we need a reroll feature

[Darkvramp.5640]

5 hours ago, windyweather.1238 said:

Also, now the weeklies are 6 out of 8 for the big reward. But dailies are 4 out of 4 with that stupid MindiDungeon keeping me out of the extra reward. Used to be I could always skip the jumping puzzles, which I don't particularly like. But nope not any more. 4 out of 4 sucker.... No big chest for you today.

Boooorrrrrring...

1. If you don't like the dailies in pve, switch to pvp, or wvw or a mix of the 2 or all 3.

2. Your not bored of the wizards vault, your just unsatisfied because you cannot easily Cheese the content for an easy reward as you did before. If your not willing to play the game, then don't play it. Try another game. Take a break. Come back In month with a fresh pair of eyes and see if you still want to "suffer" with the wizards vault.

 

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

1 hour ago, Darkvramp.5640 said:

1. If you don't like the dailies in pve, switch to pvp, or wvw or a mix of the 2 or all 3.

2. Your not bored of the wizards vault, your just unsatisfied because you cannot easily Cheese the content for an easy reward as you did before. If your not willing to play the game, then don't play it. Try another game. Take a break. Come back In month with a fresh pair of eyes and see if you still want to "suffer" with the wizards vault.

 

I don't know about pvp, but I had to switch off wvw because a) they keep giving defend dailies, and those are so badly bugged it can be incredibly difficult to complete them and b) they give the wvw JP in the weeklies, which is a non starter. I don't do wvw so I can do a kitten JP while hoping I don't get ganked.

So as it stands, wvw isn't an option. I don't personally do pvp, and I think that's true for 99% of the player base, so that's not really an option for people either.

[Lord Korag.8439]

I have chosen only the PvE yet. I found few of the new dailies a bit... specific (sharpening stones, combos), but in the end still very easily doable if you simply reads carefuly what it expects from you. With the exception of the crypt, which is now gone from the list, all of them are fun enough, or easy enough to be merged into another activity you are already doing (kill 10 mobs while having food effect? I mean, you kill them non the less, so just eat anything before the slaughter and you´re good.)

As for the reward, the gold got from 2 to 1, but you can now buy additional gold for AC. All past rewards can be claimed with the AC. You can now choose your final rewards, which I find much much better (I still have several tons of experience scrolls I don´t really need form the past ones, as I have also tons of the shards.) And, be honest, the engine throws you more than enough AC. I have reached 1300 (max amount) several times since the release of it

Old dailies were every day basically the same stuff (that was not borring?). The new ones bring every day something slightly different. They make every day a bit different, a bit special, if you will.

Now, should I try to find some negativity, I´d welcome one spare daily (5/4 instead 4/4), so if you´d really struggle with a one of them, you would have one for a change for the final reward of the day (or you could do a bonus one for another 10 AC ofc.) The weekly ones have this, as they are in a format of 6/4.

Basically the old ones pushed you to just turn on the game. The new ones push you to actually play the game. It aims to free you of the monotony, sameyness and therefore to shield you from a lack of excitement.

I could find multiple definitions for the new daily system, but none of them would even be a synonym to a word borring.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Lord Korag.8439

[Tiamat.8254]

I love the Wizards vault. Get much more value than what we had previously. I don't find it boring. I usually sleep walk through most tasks as they are part of how I play normally. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Tiamat.8254
Typo

[Manasa Devi.7958]

1 hour ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

Old dailies were every day basically the same stuff (that was not borring?). The new ones bring every day something slightly different. They make every day a bit different, a bit special, if you will.

You must be getting very different dailies than I am, because they are more boring than ever. Ten kills, dodging, combos, etc. Two of those every day, they complete without even checking them out. One that's maybe on the level of the old dailies. Maybe.

[Lord Korag.8439]

40 minutes ago, Manasa Devi.7958 said:

You must be getting very different dailies than I am, because they are more boring than ever. Ten kills, dodging, combos, etc. Two of those every day, they complete without even checking them out. One that's maybe on the level of the old dailies. Maybe.

If you get the ones you complete durning your cassual playtime (which kills, dodges, combos and daily log-ins surely are), they can´t bore you,  for you complete them before you even notice them, therefore you can´t even get bored by them. You can get bored by the longer ones, more difficult to complete, which could only be a few most difficult JPs in the list or preharps some timed world boss you have to wait for. 

Most of them are written so freely they can be completed by several ways, based on your creativity (especially the kills, dodges and combos; you can complete those literally everywhere by doing whatever event/combat content released since the launch of the game. Should you complete them durning a raid run? Do so. Would you desire to completing them in a fractal or a dungeon? Be so. Preharps you could be interested in one of the open map metas? Consider them included. Having some unfinished story content? Fuse it together. Or just some wandering around the map? Granted. You just have to find your own way how to deal with them.)

Edited September 6, 2023 by Lord Korag.8439

[zaced.7948]

if you need a carrot to play content, this game might not be for you. if you can't do something you enjoy without external motivation you may also have problems beyond video games.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

6 minutes ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

If you get the ones you complete durning your cassual playtime (which kills, dodges, combos and daily log-ins surely are), they can´t bore you,  for you complete them before you even notice them, therefore you can´t even get bored by them. You can get bored by the longer ones, more difficult to complete, which could only be a few most difficult JPs in the list or preharps some timed world boss you have to wait for. 

Most of them are written so freely they can be completed by several ways, based on your creativity (especially the kills, dodges and combos; you can complete those literally everywhere by doing whatever event/combat content released since the launch of the game. Should you complete them durning a raid run? Do so. Would you desire to completing them in a fractal or a dungeon? Be so. Preharps you could be interested in one of the open map metas? Consider them included. Having some unfinished story content? Fuse it together. Or just some wandering around the map? Granted. You just have to find your own way how to deal with them.)

You assume that I always log in to play anything other than just dailies. I can't play every day, I often just do dailies and log off again. I can't complete my dailies during regular play if there's not going to be any regular play on the day. I used to do my dailies with 3 WvW ones, or 2 plus an easy PvE if I didn't have enough time for 3. Doing WvW dailies is right out now, because of the potential defense daily that can take ages.; So Pve. Now I need to break a defense bar. Boring. Craft 3 masterwork items. Boring. One actual task that involves actually playing a bit if I'm lucky. Doesn't happen often.

It might become more interesting again when there's going to be 4 tasks, I'll chose to do WvW again and leave the boring PvE dailies behind.

Also, you mention world bosses. There are no world bosses among the dailies. They would be less boring if there were.