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This race has returned! Possible future playable race? [Spoilers]


Dark Red Killian.3946

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They aren't real dwarves. Their women don't have beards!

In seriousness though, if they didn't add playable tengu despite setting it up so that charr armor fits on them (something they did for EoD development as proven by that_shaman file diving escapades), the chances of us getting playable dwarves is slim to none even if the species is no longer properly extinct and "fit" armor (a running theme I see with SotO is basically undoing previous story choices - un-extincting the mursaat, un-extincting the dwarves, etc.).

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There was another post somewhere mentioning lack of beards and I wanted to reply to it "That's a Tolkien rule, doesn't apply everywhere" but I forget where the post was lol.

We are unlikely to see a new playable race in GW2 for many obvious and technical reasons.

Besides, the population of the Dwarves wouldn't be enough to truly make sense for a playable race of adventurers. It's a great lore hook of the living and the stone dwarves coming together and rebuilding some of their land like Thunderhead (And the possible interactions between them and the Dredge states) but the Dwarves of the Droknar's Forge fractal need time to establish themselves in security and then rebuild their population numbers. Though I wouldn't call the dwarves as ever being extinct, even in Gw2's core. 

Edited by Kalavier.1097
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3 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

There was another post somewhere mentioning lack of beards and I wanted to reply to it "That's a Tolkien rule, doesn't apply everywhere" but I forget where the post was lol.

"How do you know you haven't already met a female dwarf? Eh? Eh?"

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ogden_Stonehealer#Quotes

I mean... yes it's a Tolkein rule, but it was indicated that GW followed that rule when EotN hit. Mostly played for laughs and over the lack of female models in-game, but if female dwarves didn't have beards and looked clearly feminine like Dragon Age dwarves, there wouldn't be the potential for dwarves to make that joke to other races in-universe.

Edited by Konig Des Todes.2086
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12 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
"How do you know you haven't already met a female dwarf? Eh? Eh?"

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ogden_Stonehealer#Quotes

I mean... yes it's a Tolkein rule, but it was indicated that GW followed that rule when EotN hit. Mostly played for laughs and over the lack of female models in-game, but if female dwarves didn't have beards and looked clearly feminine like Dragon Age dwarves, there wouldn't be the potential for dwarves to make that joke to other races in-universe.

I mean, we also in GW1 don't travel into their structures/cities going underground.  I wouldn't take that particular joke as a line of concrete proof that  "GW female dwarves have beards" 

 

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It would need a small starting story area in the Depths to justify the expedition to the surface of the Dwarf hero in the time of the original GW2 plot (Zhaitan fight).

Technically it would be probably the easiest race to add, as it shares the model skeleton with the Norn (as do the Kodans. Old Tengu are based on the Charr, as for the animations btw. But the Dwarves use even the skin textures – with the exception of Ogden model. Makes it therefore really the easiest in the sake of the outfits.) Also, it would create a chance to deepen the actual ingame lore of Primordus.

Let´s see what are the future expansions going to offer, but this doesn´t seem as a complete blind shot as it could really work (+ the old maps contain several half finished locations which could be levered for this as well.) 

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4 hours ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

It would need a small starting story area in the Depths to justify the expedition to the surface of the Dwarf hero in the time of the original GW2 plot (Zhaitan fight).

Technically it would be probably the easiest race to add, as it shares the model skeleton with the Norn (as do the Kodans. Old Tengu are based on the Charr, as for the animations btw. But the Dwarves use even the skin textures – with the exception of Ogden model. Makes it therefore really the easiest in the sake of the outfits.) Also, it would create a chance to deepen the actual ingame lore of Primordus.

Let´s see what are the future expansions going to offer, but this doesn´t seem as a complete blind shot as it could really work (+ the old maps contain several half finished locations which could be levered for this as well.) 

The problem lies within playing a stone dwarf, not a living dwarf then.

And the concept of a Stone Dwarf becoming a major champion of the orders, then the Pact, and being a world-wide hero eventually would be very... big. Certain plot elements would lose their value like Odgen being called the last dwarf or Rhoban's status as a severed head and shoulder.

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1 hour ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

The problem lies within playing a stone dwarf, not a living dwarf then.

And the concept of a Stone Dwarf becoming a major champion of the orders, then the Pact, and being a world-wide hero eventually would be very... big. Certain plot elements would lose their value like Odgen being called the last dwarf or Rhoban's status as a severed head and shoulder.

tbh the idea of a living dwarf becoming a major champion of the orders, commander of the pact, etc. would be even more big.

If playable dwarves become a thing... it'd have to be exclusively post-SotO story experience.

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1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

tbh the idea of a living dwarf becoming a major champion of the orders, commander of the pact, etc. would be even more big.

If playable dwarves become a thing... it'd have to be exclusively post-SotO story experience.

That is among my thoughts as well. Long ago, I said that the only way  I'd see them doing like a Tengu playable race would be after "Dragon champion" became mostly irrelevant, Soto would be a good way to do it but introducing a new playable race into core story? That's very hard.

Hell, revenants basically get an implied *was another class before HoT, and then started developing Revenant powers*

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IMO, a kodan or tengu as the Pact Commander would work. While uncommon and arguably unusual, there were such members of those races in the Pact and the Orders already.

But dwarf - stone or living - would be a much further outcry, especially given the whole "they're all dead" situation. Same with if they suddenly added a playable mursaat or something. For similar reasons, the racial sympathy options wouldn't really make much sense to me either, but in theory could be pulled off narratively....  not so sure about the armor though.

Largos, the third most common contender for playable race as I've seen, would be harder to pull off than tengu or kodan... but easier than racial sympathis or extinct species reemerging.

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7 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

tbh the idea of a living dwarf becoming a major champion of the orders, commander of the pact, etc. would be even more big.

If playable dwarves become a thing... it'd have to be exclusively post-SotO story experience.

Like any race that would be introduced, should be post-SotO. If only to make it technicaly more easy and to make it fit story wise. 

5 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

IMO, a kodan or tengu as the Pact Commander would work. While uncommon and arguably unusual, there were such members of those races in the Pact and the Orders already.

But dwarf - stone or living - would be a much further outcry, especially given the whole "they're all dead" situation. Same with if they suddenly added a playable mursaat or something. For similar reasons, the racial sympathy options wouldn't really make much sense to me either, but in theory could be pulled off narratively....  not so sure about the armor though.

Largos, the third most common contender for playable race as I've seen, would be harder to pull off than tengu or kodan... but easier than racial sympathis or extinct species reemerging.

As for Kodan. 

I have only seen maybe 4 different models in the entire game. I feel like they all have the same face.. I think there isnt 1 race in the entire game with less than that. The amount of work to make them into a playable race would be insane.

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1 hour ago, Cronospere.8143 said:

I have only seen maybe 4 different models in the entire game. I feel like they all have the same face.. I think there isnt 1 race in the entire game with less than that. The amount of work to make them into a playable race would be insane.

To be fair, all non-playable races only have a small handful of faces or skin tones. The work to make any one race that isn't just "this race but with their rig in different proportions" would require a fair amount of work with character customization. Kodan would be no more work than tengu.

And most players would be bored / disappointed if ANet introduced dwarves and they were literally just the same exact character customization options as norn.

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I still nurture the slimmest hope that of all these yearly expansions they're going to release, one will eventually take us to Dominion of Winds; bring with them Tengu playable race and its own personal story which happens within the confines of the DoW, until such time you venture out and join the Pact, and from then on you can do the remaining story.

Kodan, dwarves and largos all have some snags to them that make them less fitting to introduce as playable races... largos being so individual, few and secretive hunters - it would make it difficult to gel with all the story in the game. Kodan and their spiritual part, with the voice and mind of Koda and linking their minds to the Mists, etc. which somehow makes me think they're not truly individual beings but also driven by their leaders - which will be difficult to make compatible with suddenly being Pact Commander, etc. And the dwarves are all but extinct, and for Anet to retcon the effects of the Rite of the Great Dwarf for us to play one, well that's about as jarring as slotting a Largos into that role.

Still, even if I hope Tengu might make it someday, I'm not holding my breath, but it would be very cool as a first avian race you can play in an MMO too, if I'm not mistaken; plus they've already done so much for character models, variety in appearance, etc.

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On 9/5/2023 at 5:25 AM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
"How do you know you haven't already met a female dwarf? Eh? Eh?"

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ogden_Stonehealer#Quotes

I mean... yes it's a Tolkein rule, but it was indicated that GW followed that rule when EotN hit. Mostly played for laughs and over the lack of female models in-game, but if female dwarves didn't have beards and looked clearly feminine like Dragon Age dwarves, there wouldn't be the potential for dwarves to make that joke to other races in-universe.

 

On 9/12/2023 at 5:47 AM, Dondarrion.2748 said:

I still nurture the slimmest hope that of all these yearly expansions they're going to release, one will eventually take us to Dominion of Winds; bring with them Tengu playable race and its own personal story which happens within the confines of the DoW, until such time you venture out and join the Pact, and from then on you can do the remaining story.

Kodan, dwarves and largos all have some snags to them that make them less fitting to introduce as playable races... largos being so individual, few and secretive hunters - it would make it difficult to gel with all the story in the game. Kodan and their spiritual part, with the voice and mind of Koda and linking their minds to the Mists, etc. which somehow makes me think they're not truly individual beings but also driven by their leaders - which will be difficult to make compatible with suddenly being Pact Commander, etc. And the dwarves are all but extinct, and for Anet to retcon the effects of the Rite of the Great Dwarf for us to play one, well that's about as jarring as slotting a Largos into that role.

Still, even if I hope Tengu might make it someday, I'm not holding my breath, but it would be very cool as a first avian race you can play in an MMO too, if I'm not mistaken; plus they've already done so much for character models, variety in appearance, etc.

It's also entirely possible that it's a big joke the dwarves play on humans, because they've figured out that if a dwarf says it one time, humans assume it's true every time. 

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46 minutes ago, Graymalkyn.8076 said:

It's also entirely possible that it's a big joke the dwarves play on humans, because they've figured out that if a dwarf says it one time, humans assume it's true every time. 

Such a joke is kinda moot when said humans have been around and seen over a hundred dwarves and not a single one was notably female.

I mean, a human who never interacts with a dwarf might believe it, but a human who goes through dwarf lands not once but three times and talked with many dwarves, would notice if there are female among them or not - and given the amount of female dwarves in the Droknar's Light Fractal, the Prophecies/EotN PC by all right should have passed by dozens of female dwarves.

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19 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Such a joke is kinda moot when said humans have been around and seen over a hundred dwarves and not a single one was notably female.

I mean, a human who never interacts with a dwarf might believe it, but a human who goes through dwarf lands not once but three times and talked with many dwarves, would notice if there are female among them or not - and given the amount of female dwarves in the Droknar's Light Fractal, the Prophecies/EotN PC by all right should have passed by dozens of female dwarves.

Maybe the females wear false beards to stay hidden because the dwarves feel humans can't be trusted.

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10 hours ago, Graymalkyn.8076 said:

Maybe the females wear false beards to stay hidden because the dwarves feel humans can't be trusted.

I'd lean probably more toward something that's actually true of Tolkien and Warhammer fantasy dwarves.  That the ladies simply aren't seen as much because they are more in the core of the settlements and protected. Human travelers not going deep into the settlements would explain this. Also the fact GW1 towns and populations don't always match up. The fractal could be a case (IIRC, it was based on the Deldrimor constantly being pushed back by a Mursaat-Stone Summit alliance) where they had hit critical numbers and geared everybody for war.
 

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3 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

I'd lean probably more toward something that's actually true of Tolkien and Warhammer fantasy dwarves.  That the ladies simply aren't seen as much because they are more in the core of the settlements and protected. Human travelers not going deep into the settlements would explain this. Also the fact GW1 towns and populations don't always match up. The fractal could be a case (IIRC, it was based on the Deldrimor constantly being pushed back by a Mursaat-Stone Summit alliance) where they had hit critical numbers and geared everybody for war.

While that could make sense for the centaurs and charr it was used on, it feels silly for the dwarves given that we went through their settlements and were allies with them - there would be no reason for the women and children to actively hide from us, and we wandered through their capital.

Wouldn't be shocking for "they just didn't model them" but that joke by Ogden, while an obvious Tolkein reference, feels out of place in such a situation where we should have seen them, it be obvious we saw them, but "didn't."

(Also the fractal is just Deldrimor losing to the Stone Summit - no mursaat involved, but I'm guessing it's basically the Shining Blade/Hero of Ascalon didn't help/failed to retake the capital.)

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19 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

While that could make sense for the centaurs and charr it was used on, it feels silly for the dwarves given that we went through their settlements and were allies with them - there would be no reason for the women and children to actively hide from us, and we wandered through their capital.

Wouldn't be shocking for "they just didn't model them" but that joke by Ogden, while an obvious Tolkein reference, feels out of place in such a situation where we should have seen them, it be obvious we saw them, but "didn't."

(Also the fractal is just Deldrimor losing to the Stone Summit - no mursaat involved, but I'm guessing it's basically the Shining Blade/Hero of Ascalon didn't help/failed to retake the capital.)

I'm not saying hiding, I'm saying they were in the underground/parts of the cities we don't explore. Lion's Arch is supposedly a major city but ingame it's just a few fields and buildings, etc.

Ogden also makes a reference to a line said about Legolas, so I don't really hold the jokes as a serious source of lore.

The fractal explicitly describes a battle of five thousand Deldrimor dwarves holding the line at a pass against the stone summit, only to be routed and wiped out almost entirely because the Mursaat arrived as allies of the summit. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/War_Logs 

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14 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

The fractal explicitly describes a battle of five thousand Deldrimor dwarves holding the line at a pass against the stone summit, only to be routed and wiped out almost entirely because the Mursaat arrived as allies of the summit. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/War_Logs 

This refers to the Thunderhead Keep mission in GW1. After taking back the capital from the Stone Summit, the White Mantle and mursaat sieged the city. However, the Stone Summit and mursaat were actively attacking each other should they come across one another.

And you should re-read that again, because there is no mention of an alliance. Just that the mursaat arrived after - which is true of GW1 events.

This fractal is basically "what if Thunderhead Keep mission failed?" Jalis dies, mursaat wipe out the advance Deldrimor forces, and Stone Summit (even if their leader Dagnar Stonepate is dead - though I don't know if the fractal mentions him) are still around as there's now no one to destroy Sorrow's Furnace, the Stone Summit's main base of operations.

I guess in this reality the monk strike had devastating effects. 😄

Edited by Konig Des Todes.2086
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